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Thread: Was Detained and Searched by Tacoma PD today.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Was Detained and Searched by Tacoma PD today.

    At about 4:15 this afternoon, I was waiting for my Pierce Transit bus to take me home after my appointment near the tacoma mall. I was at the transit center when I saw an officer. I had a quick firearms question to ask him so I appoached him while calling out to him. I asked my question to which he right away said "You can't have firearms on the bus!" Without thinking, I said "wanna bet?" At which point I set my backpack down on the ground so I could get my notebook out with my washington state firearms RCWs list. I had my hand on my notebook when he suddenly got defencive and told me to stop as I was pulling my notebook out. He then grabbed my backpack and searched it.

    Inside my backpack, I had my unloaded handgun in the holster, with the retaining strap in place using a snap button and velcro, with the slide locked back. In another compartment of my backpack, was the rest of my shoulder holster with 3 mags of ammo and a box of winchester hollow points with only 15 rounds in it. He then demanded my CPL to which I told him I didn't need one as the weapon was unloaded and in an closed opaque case or secure wrapper per RCW 9.41.060 part 9. he was obviously detaining me as he had possession of my bag and weapon at this point. I asked him if I could at least get my drink container off the bus since he was detaining me and would not give me my bag back. He allowed me and then detained me till after the bus had pulled away.

    I showed him the RCWs that I had in the "Firearms safety, the law & you Basic safety, general laws and regulations." booklet that I got from LESA when I applied for my CPL on the 10th. He was claiming that I needed a CPL because my gun was "consealed" in my backpack. I corrected him by showing him the law and he grumbled a bit and said something about how he just got the email that had gone out like a day ago. I told him that I knew about the email because the tacoma police officer that I had already talked to on the 12th told me that the email had gone out to all of pierce transit, transit security, and transit police on the 10th. He started arguing with me about how I would know about that and I told him who I had talked to. Again he grumbled then handed my my backpack and walked off to his car.

    I sat down, pulled a book out of my bag to read while waiting another 30 minutes for the next bus as I had missed the previous one because of being detained. While sitting on the bench, the officer pulled around with his car behind me, called out to me and motioned for me to come to him. I shook my head no to which he asked me to come look at what he found out on his computer. I told him I wasn't interested and that I was done talking to him. He asked me why I didn't want to talk to him and I simply replied "because you're an ass." He continued to try and talk to me from his car and I continued to ignore him. He finally drove back to where he was parked earlier and seemed that he was going to leave me alone... I was wrong...

    He walked over to me again and asked me for my name and birthdate. I told him no and that I didn't want to talk to him. He told me that I had to give him the information that he asked me and that he could trespass me from the bus if I didn't. I said good luck and then ignored him some more. He kept hassling me and threatening to trespass me from the bus and I finally had enough and I told him good luck and told him that I wanted to speak to his supervisor. He said he didn't have one. I soon learned that he was off duty as a police officer, still in uniform and was instead working for pierce transit privately. I said that I wanted to speak to his supervisor again. He made a call over his radio to somebody and the part I heard was that the person that he wanted to come to where we were was busy and that he had to talk to him on the phone.

    So the officer pulls out his cell phone, talks to the guy and tells him that I had a gun in my bag with the slide locked back to which I corrected and added loud enough for the other person on the phone to hear, "Don't forget its unloaded and secured in a hoster!" a minute or 2 passed and the phone conversation continued. Finally the officer says to me that his "boss" said that I could not get on the bus with the gun. I started getting more upset. I told him "I want a supervisor or your boss here now!" He gets on his radio again and talks to some people I mostly ignored it.

    Now, this whole time, I had been sitting on the bench with my backpack on the ground down between my feet with all zippers closed, and a book in my hands trying to read the book. I told him that since he was off duty that if he kept harrassing me, I was going to call 911. He said "good luck with that!" quoting me earlier. He then walked around in front of me and quickly grabs my backpack from between my legs and my first reaction was to lock my legs around his arm and hand to prevent him from grabbing it. My better judgement kicked in and I let him have it, I stood up and told him flat out that he had just illegaly seized my bag and that I was calling the police. I called 911 on my cell phone and told them what was going on. He started to walk off with my bag but only got a couple more steps away before he stopped.

    By now, we are standing about 10 feet apart with the bench seperating the 2 of us. I was on my phone talking to the 911 operator telling her that the off duty officer had illegally seized my bag which had an unloaded handgun in it with the slide locked back and secured in it's holster. I stayed on the phone with the 911 operator till 3 cars showed up at the scene. One had a "supervisor" from pierce transit who was also an off duty tacoma police officer, and 2 more police cars showed up with 3 more officers who were all on duty. They talked among themselfs for a minute before coming over to me and asking what the problem was. They didn't even let me finish what I was saying before they told me that I was a "guest" on pierce transit's property and they didn't want me there anymore. They told me that I couldn't carry my gun on the bus even though it was unloaded because I didn't have a CPL. They refused to listen to anything else I had to say at this point and told me that I had to leave pierce transit's property or I would be arrested for tresspassing. I said fine and asked for my stuff back and told them that I would be in contact with their bosses and my lawyer (I don't have a lawyer yet).

    They escorted me across the street to the nearest street corner, set my bag on the ground and then warned me that I was not allowed to be on any bus for the next 24 hours and that if I was, I would be arrested and charged. I set my backpack on a newspaper box, told them that I was getting a pen and paper and that I wanted all of their names. The one that was speaking to me most, told me his name, then told me the names of the other 4 officers and then told me to have a nice night. I said "you too!" and walked away and sat down on a bench outside of Best Buy. I then called Pierce Transit. By this time, it was just after 5 pm. I finally got to talk to a human at pierce transit, explained to the operator what had happened and I demanded to speak with somebody in charge. She connected me with somebody who was not availible and I ended up getting his voice mail.

    I got a new number from his voice mail which directed me to somebody else (I suck at remembering names) listed in the message with a phone number. I called that number, talked to a nice lady that seemed like she wanted to be helpful. I had explained what had happened and what the officers had told me and told her that I was now stuck in tacoma and unable to get home. She tried to contact a few people but failed and finally told me to call the main number and ask to speak with dispatch. So I called the main number a 2nd time got through to an operator right away, explained the situation yet again. She put me on hold only to come back and tell me that the supervisors she talked to said that they looked it up and I was in fact not allowed to be on the bus even with the weapon unloaded without a CPL. At this point, I'm just about fuming... because I suspect that the officers detained me on purpose just long enough to keep me from contacting anybody of authority at pierce transit because they pretty much shut down their administration at 5PM.

    Long story short, I ended up having to beg my apartment manager to come out and pick me up and I bribed her with a home cooked meal.

    I have the names of all the officers involved in the situation. But at this point, I'm bout ready to seriously chew some @$$ at pierce transit reguardint this issue and I already know I'm gonna be on the phone first thing in the morning at 8am...


    Edit: Sorry for the wall of text... but I had to get everything down as fast as possible before I forgot any important details...

    Edit 2: corrected some typos.
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-21-2012 at 02:38 AM.
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    Your first mistake was asking a police any question related to firearm laws.

    Second mistake trying to prove him wrong when that transit was your only reliable way home

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    find a lawyer and stop posting on the forums about this. Contact the Second Amendment Foundation as well, if it occurred as you described you likely have a lawsuit on your hands.

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Delete delete delete now before somebody quotes this stuff.


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Re: Was Detained and Searched by Tacoma PD today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    find a lawyer and stop posting on the forums about this. Contact the Second Amendment Foundation as well, if it occurred as you described you likely have a lawsuit on your hands.
    +1

    Probably want to remove the original post for the time being.

    Sent by Droid

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    Regular Member Boomboy007's Avatar
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    Arrow Sorry about your ride, Grim.

    First, let me say I how sorry I am that you got shafted on your ride. That said, I really do not understand why my fellow gun nuts insist on "chatting it up" with police officers. We must ALL remember that police officers are NOT fellow "gun guys or gals"; they are NOT our friend or buddy or pal; they ARE agents of the state who, for the most part, dislike "common" citizens who DARE to carry what they consider their exclusive symbol of authority, a gun.

    Unless I need to report a crime, you will not find me yukking it up with any LEO. Just so you understand where I am coming from, I was a cop for three years. Trust me when I say that the majority of these guys hold us (armed citizens) in contempt.

    Now get your butt down to the police department and file a complaint. You don't need a lawyer for that. Also, if it is legal to carry concealed with a cpl on the bus, then it is legal to carry openly without one.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    no... I've already decided I have enough crap on my plate right now with starting school monday and dealing with the problem of having firearms in my apartment... I'm gonna call pierce transit tomorrow morning and chew some ass there and then let them deal with it... if it happens again, I'm gonna be all over it like flies on $h!t

    I just wanted to let people know what the hell happened.
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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    You're lucky as **** you didn't birked son!


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeIsTrouble View Post
    You're lucky as **** you didn't birked son!
    eh?
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    The wood carver that got killed(murdered?) by a Seattle PD, 13 seconds after Officer Birk exited his vehicle.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Snif Snif ! hmm waiting for the next short story to be posted.
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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomboy007 View Post
    First, let me say I how sorry I am that you got shafted on your ride. That said, I really do not understand why my fellow gun nuts insist on "chatting it up" with police officers. We must ALL remember that police officers are NOT fellow "gun guys or gals"; they are NOT our friend or buddy or pal; they ARE agents of the state who, for the most part, dislike "common" citizens who DARE to carry what they consider their exclusive symbol of authority, a gun.

    Unless I need to report a crime, you will not find me yukking it up with any LEO. Just so you understand where I am coming from, I was a cop for three years. Trust me when I say that the majority of these guys hold us (armed citizens) in contempt.

    Now get your butt down to the police department and file a complaint. You don't need a lawyer for that. Also, if it is legal to carry concealed with a cpl on the bus, then it is legal to carry openly without one.

    Not exactly, it's a vehicle so loaded carry must be accompanied by a CPL whether open or concealed.
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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Snif Snif ! hmm waiting for the next short story to be posted.
    Trust me, it's not a story... this really happened and I'm quite pissed about it. I really wish I could do something about it but with the other crap going on in my life, I can't spend the extra time and headaches on this one. I got away with my gun, without being arrested, and they still didn't get my name so they could never run my background check. One of the officers even questioned the original officer if he got the serial number off my gun but the idiot forgot to actually pull the gun out of the bag to check the first time and I didn't give him a chance to search again. The first time he might have been able to claim that he saw the gun when I opened my bag to get my notebook... but to actually open my bag again while off duty and working privately as a transit officer, he wouldn't have been able to get away with it again. And as they were escorting me off the property, they had already decided to let me go and give my stuff back to me so they were smart enough not to open the bag and search. Even to the very end, they kept asking me for my name and birthdate but I flat out refused to give it to them and they didn't search me personally and take my wallet.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    I understand your resistance to do anything. There's nothing you can do. If you were wealthy you could probably achieve some justice....
    Your lucky you weren't arrested on the spot. Hand cuffed. Embarrassed. Maybe roughed up a little. Unless it's race related, having your rights trampled usually does not attract attention. Even if you hired a lawyer and won a case you probably wouldn't even receive damages to pay for your fees and time.

    The cops completely stomped on your freedom and probably felt great doing it. They will do again to someone else tomorrow.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 09-21-2012 at 01:21 AM.
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    Thanks for starting something you could not and will not finish, you just made it harder on the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post

    Long story short, I ended up having to beg my apartment manager to come out and pick me up and I bribed her with a home cooked meal.
    You did all that to have dinner with your apt manager? Wow ... she must be something

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Thanks for starting something you could not and will not finish, you just made it harder on the rest of us.
    What exactly did I start? I was trying to be nice and ask the officer a simple question I was confused about and wanted a little clearification on. He decided to be a d!ck. I got ticked by his attitude and responded in kind. I walked away and was going to leave it be... he's the one that approached me 2 more times after that and made matters worse by harrassing me. As for finishing it, I would gladly take this as far as I could to make sure that this dip$h!t officer and his buddies learn a lesson but it's beyond my ability at this point in time. I've already been told by one officer that I do trust that even if I did file a complaint with the police department about anything, it most likely wouldn't go anywhere and as much as he disagreed with it, he admitted that it was true. So unless you're willing to pay my legal fees, help me out with my school expences and then take care of my housing issue, keep comments like that to yourself.

    I'm going to call pierce transit in the morning... I'm going to make as many phone calls as I can to anybody there that will listen and tell them that these off duty officers that they have working for them are complete bullies and idiots and demand that they do something about it... and I will keep hounding them till they do or they block my telephone number... then I'll just get a new number and start all over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You did all that to have dinner with your apt manager? Wow ... she must be something
    Heh no... she's the only one I knew of off the top of my head that was close, had a car and could come get me... I'm the complex chef... I deal with all the BBQs and tend to give my apartment manager plates of food when I make too much for myself.
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-21-2012 at 01:36 AM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight, you approached police told them you were armed and asked if you can carry on the bus, was told no and then offloaded your notebooks with cited law saying you could?

    First off approaching a cop telling him you're armed and then asking him if you can carry on a transit vehicle you're about to board will certainly be seen as RAS, this is the definition of RAS "specific and articulable facts", "taken together with rational inferences from those facts". (Terry v. Ohio) specific fact, the officer was minding his own business, fact you approached the officer to argue with him voluntarily, he did not detain you until after you approached him, fact you told him you were armed. If you ask "can I carry a gun on the bus" and he goes "no" and you throw down your backpack after saying "wanna bet?" and are digging into it, that alone there can be grounds for justifiable homicide, RAS for an investigation is no stretch.

    The officer conducts one, leaves, comes back and asks to talk to you, you mouth off to him and he issues you a notice of trespass after you dare him to, bad move.

    Frankly I'm almost certain you're not giving us the whole story, your own version of events leads me to believe the officers were justified in issuing you a trespass notice, just from you dropping a pack on the ground and digging in it after challenging the officer about carrying guns alone, that's an overtly aggressive action.

    Are you the same guy who had rights restored following a felony conviction who needed mental help and is now in a limbo over guns in your apartment? I really think you should give your gun to someone you trust for safe keeping, review the laws and the forums here, and then after you know enough to carry without getting in trouble at every turn, then retrieve your gun and start carrying again.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    find a lawyer and stop posting on the forums about this. Contact the Second Amendment Foundation as well, if it occurred as you described you likely have a lawsuit on your hands.
    SAF won't touch this with a 10 foot pole, once they review the reports filed by the officers. With just the information he has provided us its a toss of a coin in court, and I doubt the officers report will make his case any easier
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    So let me get this straight, you approached police told them you were armed and asked if you can carry on the bus, was told no and then offloaded your notebooks with cited law saying you could?
    No, my gun was in my backpack, in its holster, unloaded and with the slide locked back. The cop illegally searched my bag after taking it from me after I pulled out my notebook. I never even mentioned the gun to the officer. I was asking him a firearms related question and he jumped to "you can't carry a gun on the bus" That responce had nothing to do with my question at all.

    First off approaching a cop telling him you're armed and then asking him if you can carry on a transit vehicle you're about to board will certainly be seen as RAS, this is the definition of RAS "specific and articulable facts", "taken together with rational inferences from those facts". (Terry v. Ohio) specific fact, the officer was minding his own business, fact you approached the officer to argue with him voluntarily, he did not detain you until after you approached him, fact you told him you were armed. If you ask "can I carry a gun on the bus" and he goes "no" and you throw down your backpack after saying "wanna bet?" and are digging into it, that alone there can be grounds for justifiable homicide, RAS for an investigation is no stretch.

    The officer conducts one, leaves, comes back and asks to talk to you, you mouth off to him and he issues you a notice of trespass after you dare him to, bad move.

    Frankly I'm almost certain you're not giving us the whole story, your own version of events leads me to believe the officers were justified in issuing you a trespass notice, just from you dropping a pack on the ground and digging in it after challenging the officer about carrying guns alone, that's an overtly aggressive action.

    Are you the same guy who had rights restored following a felony conviction who needed mental help and is now in a limbo over guns in your apartment? I really think you should give your gun to someone you trust for safe keeping, review the laws and the forums here, and then after you know enough to carry without getting in trouble at every turn, then retrieve your gun and start carrying again.

    Again, I never told the officer I was armed, I wasn't open carrying, the gun was in "transport mode". I never asked him if I could carry a gun on the bus. With everything that happened, I honestly totally forgot the original question. I didn't even get to finish the question before he jumped the gun and told me I couldnt carry a gun on the bus. As soon as he said that however, my confrontational stance kicked in cuz suddenly this officer was completely rude and I wasn't going to put up with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    At about 4:15 this afternoon, I was waiting for my Pierce Transit bus to take me home after my appointment near the tacoma mall. I was at the transit center when I saw an officer. I had a quick firearms question to ask him so I appoached him while calling out to him. I asked my question to which he right away said "You can't have firearms on the bus!" Without thinking, I said "wanna bet?" At which point I set my backpack down on the ground so I could get my notebook out with my washington state firearms RCWs list. I had my hand on my notebook when he suddenly got defencive and told me to stop as I was pulling my notebook out. He then grabbed my back and searched it.
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-21-2012 at 01:54 AM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    No, my gun was in my backpack, in its holster, unloaded and with the slide locked back. The cop illegally searched my bag after taking it from me after I pulled out my notebook. I never even mentioned the gun to the officer. I was asking him a firearms related question and he jumped to "you can't carry a gun on the bus" That responce had nothing to do with my question at all.


    Again, I never told the officer I was armed, I wasn't open carrying, the gun was in "transport mode". I never asked him if I could carry a gun on the bus. With everything that happened, I honestly totally forgot the original question. I didn't even get to finish the question before he jumped the gun and told me I couldnt carry a gun on the bus. As soon as he said that however, my confrontational stance kicked in cuz suddenly this officer was completely rude and I wasn't going to put up with it.
    So what did you ask that caused all this misery?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    So what did you ask that caused all this misery?
    I honestly don't remember. I had just gotten on the bus I was going to take to get home. I saw the officer come up to the door of the bus and talk to the driver, I random gun related question popped into my head and I decided to go ask the officer since he was right there. Since my gun was in my backpack, I wasn't going to leave it on the bus unattended. so I took it with me slung over my shoulder. Again, I started to ask my question and as soon as I even mentioned "firearms" he jumped down my throat and told me I couldn't take a gun on the bus. I never even finished the question.
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-21-2012 at 01:59 AM.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Are you the same guy who had rights restored following a felony conviction who needed mental help and is now in a limbo over guns in your apartment? I really think you should give your gun to someone you trust for safe keeping, review the laws and the forums here, and then after you know enough to carry without getting in trouble at every turn, then retrieve your gun and start carrying again.
    #1 My mental health issue is and was a purely emotional one and it was over 10 years ago.

    #2 my juvenile record is over 18 years old... I haven't done a damn thing wrong since I was in my teens.

    #3 my housing issue is because I simple told the people in charge that I was applying for my CPL, they jumped the gun and thought that I was getting a gun. The fact that they were right isn't the issue. Its that they assumed I was and went into automatic gun prohabition mode when I even mentioned the CPL. They still don't *know* that I have a gun, they only suspect but that will get them nowhere. NOBODY in my apartment complex or even associated with my apartment complex even knows that I have a gun. in fact, a grand total of 4 people know I have my gun. My 2 best friends, and the 2 people that I met at starbucks in lakewood last week. (and anybody on here that bothers to read any of the threads I have posted in reguarding my gun.)

    #4 I have studied the laws reguarding firearms and I'm very well versed. Every once in a while, I may have a question that I'll think of that isn't specifically covered by the RCWs or is a bit ambiguous and I will take a chance and see what an officer may know about the issue.

    #5 there is no need what so ever for me to give my gun to anybody. I know what I am doing, and safety is of utmost importance to me reguarding firearms. When I do OC, I do it with just the mag in the gun with no round chambered so that I can remove the mag and unload it without having to remove the weapon from the holster. When I get my CPL, that will change completely. I will be carrying it fully loaded all the time. In my apartment, there is a full mag and 1 in the chamber but as soon as I leave, that mag comes out, I eject the loaded round and pop the mag back in.
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-21-2012 at 02:12 AM.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  24. #24
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    First off approaching a cop telling him you're armed and then asking him if you can carry on a transit vehicle you're about to board will certainly be seen as RAS,
    First off all this is ridiculous. RAS of what crime?

    Second off your making many assumptions.
    Try being supportive to others gun owners.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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  25. #25
    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: Was Detained and Searched by Tacoma PD today.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    So let me get this straight, you approached police told them you were armed and asked if you can carry on the bus, was told no and then offloaded your notebooks with cited law saying you could?

    First off approaching a cop telling him you're armed and then asking him if you can carry on a transit vehicle you're about to board will certainly be seen as RAS, this is the definition of RAS "specific and articulable facts", "taken together with rational inferences from those facts". (Terry v. Ohio) specific fact, the officer was minding his own business, fact you approached the officer to argue with him voluntarily, he did not detain you until after you approached him, fact you told him you were armed. If you ask "can I carry a gun on the bus" and he goes "no" and you throw down your backpack after saying "wanna bet?" and are digging into it, that alone there can be grounds for justifiable homicide, RAS for an investigation is no stretch.

    The officer conducts one, leaves, comes back and asks to talk to you, you mouth off to him and he issues you a notice of trespass after you dare him to, bad move.

    Frankly I'm almost certain you're not giving us the whole story, your own version of events leads me to believe the officers were justified in issuing you a trespass notice, just from you dropping a pack on the ground and digging in it after challenging the officer about carrying guns alone, that's an overtly aggressive action.

    Are you the same guy who had rights restored following a felony conviction who needed mental help and is now in a limbo over guns in your apartment? I really think you should give your gun to someone you trust for safe keeping, review the laws and the forums here, and then after you know enough to carry without getting in trouble at every turn, then retrieve your gun and start carrying again.
    +100

    Grim, I'm sure you're a good enough guy, but you're running around mouthing off to everyone and hootin and hollerin about your gun. You are being a horrible example to the rest of the population of what we stand for. You need to cool your jets and figure out if you should even be carrying. Just a heads up, a felony isn't the only thing that can keep you from having a firearm, having a judge declare you mentally unstable or unsound is also grounds. Given your posts and the fact that you have already admitted that you've been in and out of the mental health system, you might want to check on that. In some cases, certain medications can be grounds for revocation as well. You don't want to lose your rights all together just because you want to carry right now. Maybe wait until you're a little bit more stable, socially, financially, etc.

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