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Was Detained and Searched by Tacoma PD today.

wolf-father

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
130
Location
, Washington, USA
I think it could have been alot worse. You could have had new guy who went on the defensive after telling you no guns and then you say "wana bet" then shove your hand in your bag. There is a good chance you could be pulling out a gun. He could have had you at gunpoint.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
#1.jpg#2.jpg#3.jpg
RAS is not a high standard to meet. Hate to burst your bubble, but RAS means next to nothing and the right judge can find anything to be RAS, in this case you have an individual who approaches you and asks you a question (I think he asked if he could carry on the bus, and until his memory improves that's my operating assumption because it's the only thing that makes the story make sense) then after being told an answer he says



Which his firearm was also inside that same backpack. unless he carries two backpacks. I don't know about you but if someone comes and asks a question, and hates the answer and starts ruffling through his pack, I'm either leaving, or if not an option I'm taking immediate steps to ensure my safety. at this point nothing the officer did was in the wrong. except answering you can;t have guns on the bus, but the witness in this case suffers from faulty memory. Had an average citizen been confronted in this was and had seen his gun in his pack while he's ruffling for his noteback, I believe we already have opportunity and ability, jeopardy depends on the attitude of the OP, which seems to me that he failed that test big.

And then when they contact him later they want to talk to him, he tells them to piss off and they trespass from the bus shelter. this is consistent with their level of authority as being hired contract to provide security at Pierce County transit facilities.

Now if the OP had been approached and hassled and had his bag searched despite not approaching or saying anything to the cops, I'd be 100% on your side. but this is not one of those cases. it appears to me he detained himself.


Pic #1: backpack open, no hand near bag

Pic #2: backpack open, hand just inside grabbing notebook

pic #3: backpack open, hand with notebook 1/3 out of bag

At the point when I got to pic #3 is when the officer said "stop"

As for asking if I could carry a gun on the bus, why the hell would I bother to ask that when I knew damn well that I could?

PT Rules of the road

12. No unlawful firearms or weapons of any type.

PT Unlawful Transit conduct

5. / e. Carries flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others; except that nothing herein shall prevent a person from carrying cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law.

By this point, I think I am starting to live up to my sig...
 
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HeesBonafide

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
152
Location
, ,
...have you learned anything about this situation?

#4 I have studied the laws reguarding firearms and I'm very well versed. Every once in a while, I may have a question that I'll think of that isn't specifically covered by the RCWs or is a bit ambiguous and I will take a chance and see what an officer may know about the issue.


....would it possibly be, "Don't ask a cop about the law?!?"

If you have a legal question, ask a lawyer..... You won't get arrested if you don't like what they have to say.

on another note: if someone is being a dick....it doesn't mean you have to respond in kind. All you do is justify their position and when you are dealing with someone that has the authority to "always maintain a level of force higher that you" you will ALWAYS lose when you meet force with force -- don't believe me, refer to your original post, how did it that turn out...
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
I don't think you're getting what you're being told,

let me boil this down becuase the way you handled things was not the correct way. let me tell you the correct way to handle these things

1) Never ask a cop legal questions (caveat, it's ok to call the sheriff's office with questions if you're out of state or in an area where you're not familiar with the law, or talk about legal issues to an officer you know personally and is a friend, but never ask a random cop a random question when they're dealing with their official duties)

2) Don't run your mouth, if you say nothing the officer has to work harder to formulate RAS to detain you, if you go mouthing off you make this job easier, plus you very well could be dealing with a bad cop who will take offense to you challenging his authority, or maybe even a normally good cop who may have family issues at home or whatever. point is, running your mouth can have serious consequences for you

3) A corollary to don't run your mouth, don't sit there saying "I know my rights" show him you know your rights by shutting up and not running your yap. in question that must be answered is to be answered with a quick yes or no, as in "can i search you bag?" "no" say nothing else.

4) If the officer is working a private security gig, such as security for pierce transit, they can make you leave and trespass you, so if they threaten to do so if you're combative with them, don't dare them to if the bus is your ride home

5) never ever talk about guns then shove your hand in your backpack, your pictures you posted not withstanding that can never help you out

6) Read the RCWs, the minute you opened your backpack to get your notebook your gun was no longer in a closed case or secure wrapper, but it was still partially concealed, could a bad cop or hard-ass Prosecuter wanting to make a name for himself allege unlawful CCW at that time? who knows? but I promise you you'll spend lots of time and money fighting something like that, count your blessings you don't have to be a test case for that idea.

7) Impulse control, children act on impulse, don't be a child

8) You should reasonably know that people you talk to over the phone are not going to revoke your trespass order issued by a cop who was there on scene, so continually calling them won't help, wait til the expiration of the 24 hour trespass order

9) Your posts do indicate a pattern of problems that call into question your responsibility in carrying/owning a firearm. you may have commited no crime, but your responsbility is in question. I will re-iterate. If I were you, I would turn that gun over to a trusted friend or relative, before you get hurt/charged/arrested/prosecuted/"birked"/ or justifiably killed, do some serious soul-searching, legal research, impulse control techniques etc, along with settling your apartment issues, then when that is settled retrieve your gun from your relatives and continue. I get no pleasure in telling you this, but my advice is given to you out of love, I think everyone would be best served if you work on some of your personality issues before carrying a gun in public again, the way you're going, you're far more likely to be prosecuted or "birked" by a nervous cop then you are to be jumped by a mugger.
 
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HeesBonafide

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
152
Location
, ,
Greatr advice!

9) Your posts do indicate a pattern of problems that call into question your responsibility in carrying/owning a firearm. you may have commited no crime, but your responsbility is in question. I will re-iterate. If I were you, I would turn that gun over to a trusted friend or relative, before you get hurt/charged/arrested/prosecuted/"birked"/ or justifiably killed, do some serious soul-searching, legal research, impulse control techniques etc, along with settling your apartment issues, then when that is settled retrieve your gun from your relatives and continue. I get no pleasure in telling you this, but my advice is given to you out of love, I think everyone would be best served if you work on some of your personality issues before carrying a gun in public again, the way you're going, you're far more likely to be prosecuted or "birked" by a nervous cop then you are to be jumped by a mugger.

There just seems to be a lot on coincidental information around "people are hassling me" that would concern me for you. Either that or you should get a reality show..
 

SeattleWingsfan

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
188
Location
Lakewood, Washington, United States
I've met Grim in person at Starbucks here in lakewood. He seemed like nice enough of a guy. A little excited about his newly restored ability to carry. But who of us wouldn't be. I know the first couple times I was out in public open carrying I was a bit nervous and excited at the same time. He carries info with him regarding laws and seemed to be knowledgable. The fact that he was so open in talking to us at Starbucks and on here regarding his housing and "mental" situation, left me feeling perfectly comfortable. I think you get a better feel for someone when you meet them in person.

As far as approaching a LEO to ask a question. I don't have issue with that. I have done so on occasion in regard to car modifications and such, take it with a grain of salt though because they have been found to give wrong info to me more than once. I would not have got off a bus to ask something and left some property on the bus, holding it up. I would have waited till what would seem a more opertune time. However I was not there and can only speak on the picture painted on this thread.

I think alot of the Leo altercations I have heard about could be avoided by simply looking the part. If your going to carry a gun, look like your suppose to. Don't be fidgety, look uncomfortable, or act like it's your first time doing so. People say that it takes time to get over. But I primarily think if your uncomfortable, it's because you haven't handled your weapon enough. It amazes me how many people I know that have guns and even carry everyday, that I ask if they want to go shooting and they decline, and confess they don't go often. I know everyone can't afford to go every week like I try, but when someone that I know carries a gun in public tells me they haven't gone shooting in 6 months. It concerns me a bit. And as much as I know it's your rightto carry a gun, keep in mind that people are judgemental and stupid. If you carry a gun in a nice serpa or official ie. "LEO looking" holster and dress nice and clean cut. You will get less flack from the GP than if you have dirty, holy jeans, or some crazy tactical rig with lots of extra magazines. I can tell a difference between my weekend carry, and during the week when I look like I have been working on a car all day. Once again I don't think it's right. But it is most definatly a fact with certain types of citizens.

All of us learn by experience. When your experience is limited your bound to learn more faster than once you have been around the block a few times. I'm chalking this up to enthusiasm. Could both sides have handled it better, yes.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
NO RAS was there EMN loves "proactive Policing" and in almost all the threads him and his ilk will rationalize why it is ok for cops (who are supposed to be constitutionally restricted) to go above and beyond the law.

Again he justifies "homicide" by cops because they are cops. IF this was a situation between two "civilians" he wouldn't be justifying this.

Yeah I forget sometimes he's just a youngster, not old enough to buy a handgun. Yet my how he can criticize.

OP: Your behavior is unnatural for a lot of us because we have learned that cops will do bad things without any justification and almost always no consequences whatsoever.

You are 100% in the right but if you don't wake up and realize the world we live in, eventually someone is going to post an article about you being "justifiably" murdered by cops. The article will be very vague on details and several people on here will say "something smells fishy!" and then we will all forget your name....

You cannot treat cops like any other citizen. Better to treat them like an extremely dangerous animal, the only thing that keeps that animal from killing you is lack of interest.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
I've met Grim in person at Starbucks here in lakewood. He seemed like nice enough of a guy. A little excited about his newly restored ability to carry. But who of us wouldn't be. I know the first couple times I was out in public open carrying I was a bit nervous and excited at the same time. He carries info with him regarding laws and seemed to be knowledgable. The fact that he was so open in talking to us at Starbucks and on here regarding his housing and "mental" situation, left me feeling perfectly comfortable. I think you get a better feel for someone when you meet them in person.

As far as approaching a LEO to ask a question. I don't have issue with that. I have done so on occasion in regard to car modifications and such, take it with a grain of salt though because they have been found to give wrong info to me more than once. I would not have got off a bus to ask something and left some property on the bus, holding it up. I would have waited till what would seem a more opertune time. However I was not there and can only speak on the picture painted on this thread.

I think alot of the Leo altercations I have heard about could be avoided by simply looking the part. If your going to carry a gun, look like your suppose to. Don't be fidgety, look uncomfortable, or act like it's your first time doing so. People say that it takes time to get over. But I primarily think if your uncomfortable, it's because you haven't handled your weapon enough. It amazes me how many people I know that have guns and even carry everyday, that I ask if they want to go shooting and they decline, and confess they don't go often. I know everyone can't afford to go every week like I try, but when someone that I know carries a gun in public tells me they haven't gone shooting in 6 months. It concerns me a bit. And as much as I know it's your rightto carry a gun, keep in mind that people are judgemental and stupid. If you carry a gun in a nice serpa or official ie. "LEO looking" holster and dress nice and clean cut. You will get less flack from the GP than if you have dirty, holy jeans, or some crazy tactical rig with lots of extra magazines. I can tell a difference between my weekend carry, and during the week when I look like I have been working on a car all day. Once again I don't think it's right. But it is most definatly a fact with certain types of citizens.

All of us learn by experience. When your experience is limited your bound to learn more faster than once you have been around the block a few times. I'm chalking this up to enthusiasm. Could both sides have handled it better, yes.

Reguarding looking the part, yesterday I was wearing a nice pair of jeans, tucked in t-shirt, long sleeve button up shirt with a collar with the sleeves rolled up to my elbows and only the bottom button buttoned, nice black leather belt, and sunglasses. I don't dress like a punk. I try to dress nice so I can be taken seriously by adults and most "kids" leave me alone.

With me carrying my gun in my backpack, I didn't want to leave that on the bus while I talked to the officer really fast, but I didn't see an issue with just leaving my big mug on the seat when I was just in front of the bus. Again, I agree that I could have handled the situation a bit better, I could have kept a cool head but when somebody comes off rude to me for no reason, I get defencive and confrontational. That's something that I do need to work on but at least I know it's a flaw, unlike some around here who seem to think they know everything yet obviously don't...
 
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Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
And yet, I'm yet to get in major trouble with the law, the fact is while you were getting convicted of felonies I was keeping my nose clean.

Yes... I made some stupid mistakes as a kid... I'm sure everybody has done the same at some point in their life to some degree. Some get caught, some get away with it... I just wasn't one of the "lucky" ones. While I was getting convicted of ONE felony, you weren't even born... That's a great way to keep your nose clean and stay out of trouble... My hat goes off to you sir. Good day.
 
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Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Those that think they know it all sure screws it up for those of us who do ! :lol:

I know I don't know it all... I know alot but I have also forgotten alot lol. I will be the first to admit that there is still alot more for me to learn. I don't mind making mistakes as long as I learn from them. Every hardship I have to endure is just one more chance for me to learn something new. In this case, I learned to be a bit more careful with my choice of words and get to know an officer a bit better before randomly asking them questions about touchy subjects.

I didn't start this thread because I wanted to cause trouble. I simply had a bad experience and wanted to share it with people that may have had to deal with something similar in the past. I was just looking for some feedback. Some people however seem to think that nothing they do in life will ever come up smelling as anything other then roses.
 
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briehl12

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
112
Location
Auburn, wa
Grim,

I do not know you at all, but every post seems to be a bit negative. With all your posts I have read, it has been hard to keep my mouth shut, but you seem to be the type of person I would not want owning a firearm... PERIOD. People obviously have the right (unless a felon) but I see too much confrontation from you. Too many red flags keep poping up in your posts.

Hell I may be wrong, but I am shocked I am the only one who said anything about it.
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
I think the most important lesson you've learned from this is to not ask police for legal advice. If you can't find the information on your own you should ask a lawyer.

If you are in the Lakewood area again during the week PM me and I'll meet you at the Starbucks after work if you like. I get off at 3:30.
 
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