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Thread: Are Elderly Women in VA in Danger from ...?

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Are Elderly Women in VA in Danger from ...?

    Shades of Culpeper...

    http://www.wset.com/story/19592988/f...s-83-years-old

    ---------------

    Altavista, VA - Virginia State Police are investigating a fatal shooting involving an Altavista police officer.
    It happened Wednesday at around 10 p.m. at a home in Altavista.
    Troopers say an officer shot and killed a woman.
    They haven't identified the woman or the officer involved.
    We'll bring you more information as we get it.


    ---------------

    The latest update however does say this elderly woman was armed and firing shots out the back window and maybe front window of her house. The news article is the latest update that I am aware of.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Improved [sic] Law Enforcement changes the face of the community...

    According to family, the events leading to Towler's death started at her house. Thinking a person was breaking into her home, Towler grabbed her gun for protection, then called 911.


    Family says she fired out a back window, and they say police told them she had fired out a front window too. Next, she walked from her home two doors down to her sister's home. Then, just feet from her sister's porch, an Altavista Officer shot and killed her.


    "I knew somebody had gotten shot, but I didn't know who it was," said Miller.


    Towler's sister Margaret Davis did not want to speak on camera. She is still in shock after seeing police shoot and kill her sister right before her eyes. After this, Davis plans to move off Charlotte Avenue.


    People living around Charlotte Ave. say in recent years say the neighborhood has changed. And the Altavista Police Department has really stepped up enforcement. One neighbor, who asked we do not reveal his face or name, doesn't like it.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    Shades of Culpeper...

    http://www.wset.com/story/19592988/f...s-83-years-old

    ---------------

    Altavista, VA - Virginia State Police are investigating a fatal shooting involving an Altavista police officer.
    It happened Wednesday at around 10 p.m. at a home in Altavista.
    Troopers say an officer shot and killed a woman.
    They haven't identified the woman or the officer involved.
    We'll bring you more information as we get it.


    ---------------

    The latest update however does say this elderly woman was armed and firing shots out the back window and maybe front window of her house. The news article is the latest update that I am aware of.
    Based on what i read in the paper the old lady was at fault. As sad as it may be it was her fault that she was shot. According to the news and advance the cops told her to drop the pistol then she pointed at them. I can't blame the sheriff's office for the shooting.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Another one that we don't know the real facts about yet....and probably never will.

    There is just nothing good about this! Sad doesn't start to describe it.

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    Yeah, what Peter said...,

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Another one that we don't know the real facts about yet....and probably never will.

    There is just nothing good about this! Sad doesn't start to describe it.
    tons of room for speculation, and conversation for conversation's sake, but let's not, and say we did, for a while..., anyway, it's just danged sad for starters.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    A minor thought on this. Some old lady is scared and wants to protect herself, shoots some and runs to neighbor's house for help. Carries her protection. Cop sees, training takes over, shoots first.

    Used to be training taught how to think first. You're right we won't know all of the story, I posted it because it was sad news to me and the first report didn't state why she was shot. The subsequent news articles, probably the police had their story straight by then so could update the media, but I read between some lines. I don't think she had to die, but again I wasn't there.

    Maybe the cop isn't at fault legally. I guess this one will be in His hands come judgement day.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    A minor thought on this. .... I don't think she had to die, but again I wasn't there.
    No, that is a major thought.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    tons of room for speculation, and conversation for conversation's sake, but let's not, and say we did, for a while..., anyway, it's just danged sad for starters.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    I agree we'll never know the entire facts surrounding this case. If what the cops are saying is "true" then I feel the shooting was justified. If an old lady aimed a pistol at your child you would shoot to kill. Cops are trained to shoot to kill not wound. They may have been to far away to use non lethal means like a tazer plus who's to say she still wouldn't have been able to get a round or two off then... I pray for her family

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    Shades of Culpeper, eh? So you figure the cops will be charged with murder? The clear lesson to law enforcement in Virginia there, is that if a cop has reason to draw his gun and shoot, he's facing a murder charge. If I were a cop today, I'd quit; they don't pay enough to take that risk, and they won't fund the defense if something bad happens - you're on your own against the power of the state, and your department will throw you under the bus in order to preserve their own public relations. (This is, of course, mere opinion.)
    Last edited by user; 09-22-2012 at 12:42 PM.
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    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    This could be 100% justified.....I don't know. All the same, I am staying out of culpepper for a while.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Shades of Culpeper, eh? So you figure the cops will be charged with murder? The clear lesson to law enforcement in Virginia there, is that if a cop has reason to draw his gun and shoot, he's facing a murder charge. If I were a cop today, I'd quit; they don't pay enough to take that risk, and they won't fund the defense if something bad happens - you're on your own against the power of the state, and your department will throw you under the bus in order to preserve their own public relations. (This is, of course, mere opinion.)
    Certainly a fresh viewpoint. I was not thinking that there would be any charges. Do you know something we don't know? I only figured that an old woman had been shot. Other than that it doesn't seem like there are any similarities, no church, no jeep. She fired first and was armed. I don't know how many shots the police took in this case.

    I agree if all cops that are in a shooting get charged with murder than either we have two many murderers entrusted to the public safety and need to be more careful in screening these people before endowing them with their special class of 'above the average citizen'-ship, or take away the police force's guns and let only citizens carry. This will certainly protect the health and safety of the police after they will be unarmed and it would be illegal to shoot them. If they don't have guns they would be much safer, at least it would be hard to get charged with murder, unless of course they 'taze' someone more than a couple times and thereby electroshock them to death. In that case we would take the tazers away and give them batons. Hard to get into trouble with a baton.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    I agree if all cops that are in a shooting get charged with murder than either we have two many murderers entrusted to the public safety and need to be more careful in screening these people before endowing them with their special class of 'above the average citizen'-ship, or take away the police force's guns and let only citizens carry. This will certainly protect the health and safety of the police after they will be unarmed and it would be illegal to shoot them. If they don't have guns they would be much safer, at least it would be hard to get charged with murder, unless of course they 'taze' someone more than a couple times and thereby electroshock them to death. In that case we would take the tazers away and give them batons. Hard to get into trouble with a baton.
    I think I will start a movement to protect the police, take away their guns and make it illegal to shoot them.

    'Protect the Police'
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Shades of Culpeper, eh? So you figure the cops will be charged with murder? The clear lesson to law enforcement in Virginia there, is that if a cop has reason to draw his gun and shoot, he's facing a murder charge. If I were a cop today, I'd quit; they don't pay enough to take that risk, and they won't fund the defense if something bad happens - you're on your own against the power of the state, and your department will throw you under the bus in order to preserve their own public relations. (This is, of course, mere opinion.)
    All a matter of perspective. There is a difference between the department "throwing you under the bus" and being held accountable to those you were hired to "protect and serve". I really don't think we should be funding an entity that we have lost all control over, and has no accountability to us. I'm not of the opinion that it is the responsibility of police departments to shield those committing atrocities from prosecution. I see a conflict there, especially if the atrocity may of been committed by "one of it's own". {I'm still wrestling with this idea the police work for us, and not a government sanctioned gang. I mean, if one of the Crips rapes a local girl, do we go down to the leaders of the Crips and complain? Do the leaders of the Crips tell us "we'll look into it and get back to you"?} I think in other settings, like on the street, that might be referred to as running a protection racket. Street gangs provide their members and family members with protection from other gangs as well as any other perceived threats. In this case, "the civilians".

    While it has it's rough spots, Culpeper is not a war zone, nor is the rest of the region, aside from Richmond. One cop has died in Virginia "in the line of duty" so far this year, and that fatality says more about the officer's driving ability than it does about the risks of the job. He died in a single car accident at 2 AM. I'm for raising the hiring standard to include the ability to reason, and less on the ability to establish dominance at any cost. It's not a popular opinion, but it's mine. There's nothing to support police are being mowed down by senior citizens, or even punk kids for that matter.

    My point is, unless we are under a state of martial law, let's stop the preemptive killing of our citizens in order to get the point across that the police are in charge, and that when they appear, best you submit by throwing yourself prone and beg for mercy. You'll still stand the chance of being tazed, beaten, arrested and your money taken, but rumor has it this is the acceptable response police like to see from the serfs. I'm not OK accepting that I could become a collateral number in the police's battle for dominance. That these women are just the price of war.

    As far as the incident at hand, there is enough information coming forth to concern me about the total legitimacy of this killing. This is a town of under 3500 people. The officer that shot the 83 year old woman is "a veteran of the force with over a decade of experience" according to Police Chief Clay Hamilton.

    "Police have responded to “several” calls from the victim in the past, Hamilton said. None lead to arrests."

    http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/201...er-ar-2220120/

    The cops know who lived there. What the neighborhood concerns are. They've talked to her. Face to face. Sorry, I don't buy the "feared fer ma life" routine when there are indications this killing may have been nothing other than bringing a subject to compliance rather than to protect an unsuspecting, innocent neighborhood from a brutal deviant. I mean, if she waved a gun around, there was always the option of taking cover until you work out "plan B".

    "Well, she shouldn't have been waving a gun around"

    She didn't have her hearing aid in. Or her glasses on. There is indications there were burglars in her house. Her purse along with several hundred dollars are missing.

    http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/201...ng-ar-2225167/

    Neighbors were upset Friday evening, saying investigators haven’t spoken to those in the area who may have seen something.

    All eight residents of 10th Street who were home Friday evening said investigators hadn’t been to their homes. Both residents who were home and had houses behind Towler’s said the same.


    This troubles me.

    So does this:

    Authorities also are not releasing the 9-1-1 recordings or in-car camera footage from the scene, citing the ongoing investigation.


    I guess I wouldn't be releasing anything either. Let the natives get settled down. Git back to their routines. This can be explained away once eating on a regular basis and maintaining shelter once again become the primary concerns of the affected. Move along. Nothing to see here.

    The masses have been manipulated before, and it looks like it's happening again.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Independent, adversarial review board......they go in thinking the cop(s) broke the law and discover that he did not. That is how the state approaches you, yet the state gets to investigate one of their own.

    By the way, if the state thinks you (the cop) did brake the law you don't get to be a member of the protected class for very long. They can not throw a "civilian" under the bus.....Culpeper.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    That story has some major disconnections in it. It starts by saying the woman had called the police to report a burglar, but it's not until you get to the bottom that the writer actually tells you that the woman didn't call and report a burglary, instead the woman called 911 and hung up. Other stories indicate that the police attempted to follow up with the phone call by driving by her house when they heard at least one gunshot at her home, eventually spotted her carrying the gun ready to use, and then when she turned toward them with the gun, she was shot. The woman fired a warning shot that penetrated her home (generally a big no-no) and the responding cops unaware of what had occurred heard it and she then left her home carrying a gun in hand without her glasses or hearing aids and allegedly turned toward the cops with the gun when they attempted to communicate with her. Since the 911 call didn't indicate an attempted robbery, the police could not be expected to know what had allegedly happened, nor would they have known that the woman was attempting to get from her home to her sisters home for safety. They knew there had been a 911 call and a hangup, a gunshot, and a woman walking in public with a gun in her hand who didn't respond to audible communication, who then turned toward them with the gun.

    The situation is tragic, but the attempts to lay this tragedy on some trigger happy cops that went out and murdered a woman like some dog seem completely unreasonable when you consider the whole of the situation as described (hopefully correctly).
    Last edited by jmelvin; 09-25-2012 at 04:04 PM.

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    Wow...this cop was attacked by Rambo huh? No? An 83 year old woman? Just having a gun in her hand? Did not point it AT the cop?

    Go to Florida, you'll have lots of 83 yr olds waving guns around, ya can't shoot them all - not enough bullets.

    This cop has got to be one of the biggest woosie I have ever seen.

    He's guilty of manslaughter for sure.

    3rd Rambo reference today!

    Cop: "She was waving the gun around."
    Judge Dredd: "I knew you were going to say that!"

    Ya know, if you are going to lie Mr. Policeman, ya have to do better than that. Cop's a liar. He's a killer.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    911 Tapes Released

    http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/201...ed-ar-2240685/

    A little more detail in the case as the 911 tapes are released.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Damn! That's heartwrenching just listening to the operator trying to reach the woman. The operator must've been a mess after hearing what eventually happened.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Another Article

    http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/201...ng-ar-2244979/

    Still many doubts as to what really happened. Protect the police take away their guns.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  21. #21
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Davis went to unlock the back door as her sister approached. As Davis stood in the doorway, she said, she heard a gunshot and watched her sister fall, bleeding from the neck.

    Davis said she did not see a gun in her sister’s hand as Towler walked toward her porch, but said authorities later told her they found a handgun under Towler’s body.

    Davis still maintained her sister wasn’t pointing at anyone and was moving too quickly to aim.



    http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/201...ng-ar-2244979/
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Damn! That's heartwrenching just listening to the operator trying to reach the woman. The operator must've been a mess after hearing what eventually happened.
    After about 2½ minutes of trying, a dispatcher left a message: “We got a 911 hang up call from this residence. The Altavista Police Department is outside and needs someone to come to the door. They are there to check on you.”

    They checked on her alright - way to go APD .. see lots of 83 yr old burglars, do ya?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    After about 2½ minutes of trying, a dispatcher left a message: “We got a 911 hang up call from this residence. The Altavista Police Department is outside and needs someone to come to the door. They are there to check on you.”

    They checked on her alright - way to go APD .. see lots of 83 yr old burglars, do ya?
    Hang up 911 call - officer(s) had no information - shot fired - subject turned w/gun in hand, ignored/didn't hear verbal commands. I wasn't there, neither were you, just sayin'.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Yeah that's the problem nobody but the cops ever seem to be there, so all we have is their word.....no problem.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Hang up 911 call - officer(s) had no information - shot fired - subject turned w/gun in hand, ignored/didn't hear verbal commands. I wasn't there, neither were you, just sayin'.

    So, is this the internet equivalent of "Nothing to see here, move along"?
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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