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Thread: Mass Murders in PFZs

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Mass Murders in PFZs

    I've heard it said before, "All the mass murders in recent decades (save one) have happened in PFZs."



    Here's my question: what's the one mass murder that didn't happen in a PFZ?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Tuscon shooting of Gabrielle Giffords.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    Tuscon shooting of Gabrielle Giffords.
    That particular one was nearly foiled by a carrier, he was in the store, and when he heard shots started coming towards the front, but by the time he got their the shooter had already been tackled.

    The reason you don't hear about mass shootings in non PFZ's is because they are foiled, there have been several examples I can think of that would have been mass shootings, but weren't because of a carrier intervening.

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    That particular one was nearly foiled by a carrier, he was in the store, and when he heard shots started coming towards the front, but by the time he got their the shooter had already been tackled.

    The reason you don't hear about mass shootings in non PFZ's is because they are foiled, there have been several examples I can think of that would have been mass shootings, but weren't because of a carrier intervening.
    Wondering which ones?

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    Wondering which ones?
    There was one in a church a few years ago, that got foiled by one of the church's volunteer security people. She shot the perp, don't recall if anyone else was wounded or killed, but she then made headlines some time after that, when she came out of the closet as a lesbian.

    I also don't recall if that was a PFZ in the state where it happened or not, but it did get a lot of air time on the news.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 09-27-2012 at 04:13 AM. Reason: added more info
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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    That particular one was nearly foiled by a carrier, he was in the store, and when he heard shots started coming towards the front, but by the time he got their the shooter had already been tackled.

    The reason you don't hear about mass shootings in non PFZ's is because they are foiled, there have been several examples I can think of that would have been mass shootings, but weren't because of a carrier intervening.


    My understanding is that the gentleman who was legally carrying actually had a chance to get a shot as he rounded a corner and even his his hand on his gun, but had second thoughts because he was concerned about being seen as a 2nd attacker, etc... and also apparently he saw a chance for either himself and/or others to get at the gunman as the gunman had a jam or some sort of malfunction to overcome and was struggling with clearing it and was subdued. My understanding is also the jam was likely due to the high-cap mag not feeding properly... someone correct me if I"m wrong.

    I have heard anti's suggest that "seeee... they didn't need a gun to subdue the gunman" but I still see it as a +1 for legal carriers... as the gentleman I refer to had the presence of mind to make a few VERY important split second decisions and clearly he made the right choice for the situation. Something many anti's think is impossible for anyone but the "highly trained" coppers to do.... the anti's would have everyone believe that anyone with a gun is ITCHING to use it and will start blasting away with any chance they get... of course hitting many infants and old ladiesin the process.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    My understanding is that the gentleman who was legally carrying actually had a chance to get a shot as he rounded a corner and even his his hand on his gun, but had second thoughts because he was concerned about being seen as a 2nd attacker, etc... and also apparently he saw a chance for either himself and/or others to get at the gunman as the gunman had a jam or some sort of malfunction to overcome and was struggling with clearing it and was subdued. My understanding is also the jam was likely due to the high-cap mag not feeding properly... someone correct me if I"m wrong.

    I have heard anti's suggest that "seeee... they didn't need a gun to subdue the gunman" but I still see it as a +1 for legal carriers... as the gentleman I refer to had the presence of mind to make a few VERY important split second decisions and clearly he made the right choice for the situation. Something many anti's think is impossible for anyone but the "highly trained" coppers to do.... the anti's would have everyone believe that anyone with a gun is ITCHING to use it and will start blasting away with any chance they get... of course hitting many infants and old ladiesin the process.
    Not sure about that, but my understanding of the jam, was that it wasn't actually a jam, he simply ran out of ammunition, and as he was trying to reload with one of those 33 round magazines he was unable to because people were able to grab hold of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    [snip]as he was trying to reload with one of those 33 round magazines he was unable to because people were able to grab hold of it.
    Ok, there you have it. Those 33 round mags helped to stop a massacre. If he had a 9 rounder, it would have been hard for the heroes to grab it, and stop this guy.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Ok, there you have it. Those 33 round mags helped to stop a massacre. If he had a 9 rounder, it would have been hard for the heroes to grab it, and stop this guy.
    Maybe we need a law that limits us to magazines that hold 20 rounds or more, not 10 or less.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 09-28-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    Not sure about that, but my understanding of the jam, was that it wasn't actually a jam, he simply ran out of ammunition, and as he was trying to reload with one of those 33 round magazines he was unable to because people were able to grab hold of it.

    You could be right... but either way, as pointed out, the high-cap mag actually HELPED people apprehend him...
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    I have a more interesting question.

    How many mass murders were committed at shooting ranges? Gun shops? Or pro gun rallies? Seems to me the mass murderer won't target a place where guns are known to be carried.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I've heard it said before, "All the mass murders in recent decades (save one) have happened in PFZs."



    Here's my question: what's the one mass murder that didn't happen in a PFZ?

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