Mass Murders in PFZs

TheQ · Sep 21, 2012

I've heard it said before, "All the mass murders in recent decades (save one) have happened in PFZs."

Here's my question: what's the one mass murder that didn't happen in a PFZ?

HKcarrier · Sep 21, 2012

Tuscon shooting of Gabrielle Giffords.

Small_Arms_Collector · Sep 26, 2012

HKcarrier said:
Tuscon shooting of Gabrielle Giffords.

That particular one was nearly foiled by a carrier, he was in the store, and when he heard shots started coming towards the front, but by the time he got their the shooter had already been tackled.

The reason you don't hear about mass shootings in non PFZ's is because they are foiled, there have been several examples I can think of that would have been mass shootings, but weren't because of a carrier intervening.

WilDChilD · Sep 26, 2012

Small_Arms_Collector said:
That particular one was nearly foiled by a carrier, he was in the store, and when he heard shots started coming towards the front, but by the time he got their the shooter had already been tackled.

The reason you don't hear about mass shootings in non PFZ's is because they are foiled, there have been several examples I can think of that would have been mass shootings, but weren't because of a carrier intervening.

Wondering which ones?

Big Gay Al · Sep 27, 2012

WilDChilD said:
Wondering which ones?

There was one in a church a few years ago, that got foiled by one of the church's volunteer security people. She shot the perp, don't recall if anyone else was wounded or killed, but she then made headlines some time after that, when she came out of the closet as a lesbian.

I also don't recall if that was a PFZ in the state where it happened or not, but it did get a lot of air time on the news.

HKcarrier · Sep 27, 2012

Small_Arms_Collector said:
That particular one was nearly foiled by a carrier, he was in the store, and when he heard shots started coming towards the front, but by the time he got their the shooter had already been tackled.

The reason you don't hear about mass shootings in non PFZ's is because they are foiled, there have been several examples I can think of that would have been mass shootings, but weren't because of a carrier intervening.

My understanding is that the gentleman who was legally carrying actually had a chance to get a shot as he rounded a corner and even his his hand on his gun, but had second thoughts because he was concerned about being seen as a 2nd attacker, etc... and also apparently he saw a chance for either himself and/or others to get at the gunman as the gunman had a jam or some sort of malfunction to overcome and was struggling with clearing it and was subdued. My understanding is also the jam was likely due to the high-cap mag not feeding properly... someone correct me if I"m wrong.

I have heard anti's suggest that "seeee... they didn't need a gun to subdue the gunman" but I still see it as a +1 for legal carriers... as the gentleman I refer to had the presence of mind to make a few VERY important split second decisions and clearly he made the right choice for the situation. Something many anti's think is impossible for anyone but the "highly trained" coppers to do.... the anti's would have everyone believe that anyone with a gun is ITCHING to use it and will start blasting away with any chance they get... of course hitting many infants and old ladiesin the process.

Small_Arms_Collector · Sep 27, 2012

HKcarrier said:
My understanding is that the gentleman who was legally carrying actually had a chance to get a shot as he rounded a corner and even his his hand on his gun, but had second thoughts because he was concerned about being seen as a 2nd attacker, etc... and also apparently he saw a chance for either himself and/or others to get at the gunman as the gunman had a jam or some sort of malfunction to overcome and was struggling with clearing it and was subdued. My understanding is also the jam was likely due to the high-cap mag not feeding properly... someone correct me if I"m wrong.

I have heard anti's suggest that "seeee... they didn't need a gun to subdue the gunman" but I still see it as a +1 for legal carriers... as the gentleman I refer to had the presence of mind to make a few VERY important split second decisions and clearly he made the right choice for the situation. Something many anti's think is impossible for anyone but the "highly trained" coppers to do.... the anti's would have everyone believe that anyone with a gun is ITCHING to use it and will start blasting away with any chance they get... of course hitting many infants and old ladiesin the process.

Not sure about that, but my understanding of the jam, was that it wasn't actually a jam, he simply ran out of ammunition, and as he was trying to reload with one of those 33 round magazines he was unable to because people were able to grab hold of it.

stainless1911 · Sep 27, 2012

Small_Arms_Collector said:
[snip]as he was trying to reload with one of those 33 round magazines he was unable to because people were able to grab hold of it.

Ok, there you have it. Those 33 round mags helped to stop a massacre. If he had a 9 rounder, it would have been hard for the heroes to grab it, and stop this guy.

Big Gay Al · Sep 27, 2012

stainless1911 said:
Ok, there you have it. Those 33 round mags helped to stop a massacre. If he had a 9 rounder, it would have been hard for the heroes to grab it, and stop this guy.

Maybe we need a law that limits us to magazines that hold 20 rounds or more, not 10 or less. :lol:

HKcarrier · Sep 28, 2012

Small_Arms_Collector said:
Not sure about that, but my understanding of the jam, was that it wasn't actually a jam, he simply ran out of ammunition, and as he was trying to reload with one of those 33 round magazines he was unable to because people were able to grab hold of it.

You could be right... but either way, as pointed out, the high-cap mag actually HELPED people apprehend him...

alphamale · Oct 1, 2012

I have a more interesting question.

How many mass murders were committed at shooting ranges? Gun shops? Or pro gun rallies? Seems to me the mass murderer won't target a place where guns are known to be carried.

TheQ said:
I've heard it said before, "All the mass murders in recent decades (save one) have happened in PFZs."

Here's my question: what's the one mass murder that didn't happen in a PFZ?

Mass Murders in PFZs

TheQ

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HKcarrier

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Small_Arms_Collector

Regular Member

WilDChilD

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Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator

HKcarrier

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Small_Arms_Collector

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stainless1911

Banned

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator

HKcarrier

Regular Member

alphamale

Regular Member