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Thread: Interesting Comment After Robbery in Downtown Seattle

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Interesting Comment After Robbery in Downtown Seattle

    Courtesy of KOMO: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/S...170723586.html

    A robbery suspect shot at a security guard who chased him and several bystanders held him down until police arrived. One comment that intrigued me was:

    "You've got to think about what the potential consequences are. Especially if you're not armed, and if you're not able to take the kind of action you may need to take against somebody who is. It's a very risky step to take."

    Obviously police departments don't like anybody apprehending a dangerous suspect during or after a crime. Though I am intrigued by the "especially if you are not armed" comment. What if a citizen was armed? Thoughts?

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    Same applies.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Isn't Westlake's policy anti-gun? If so then this just supports the argument that no guns=more crime.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Courtesy of KOMO: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/S...170723586.html

    A robbery suspect shot at a security guard who chased him and several bystanders held him down until police arrived. One comment that intrigued me was:

    "You've got to think about what the potential consequences are. Especially if you're not armed, and if you're not able to take the kind of action you may need to take against somebody who is. It's a very risky step to take."

    Obviously police departments don't like anybody apprehending a dangerous suspect during or after a crime. Though I am intrigued by the "especially if you are not armed" comment. What if a citizen was armed? Thoughts?
    Whether armed or not, you must understand the consequences.... in my opinion caution should be taken. The comment shows the false belief that if you are armed you are bullet proof and can do anything. It also shows the false notion that a firearm in the hands of a citizen is for anything but self defense.

    From my understanding the first to apprehend the crook was a guy who came from behind and bear hugged the man and then others came to help. If you can get the drop on someone from behind and are big enough, strong enough and brave/crazy enough to do this then you took the proper caution and did the right thing.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    If you can get the drop on someone from behind and are big enough, strong enough and brave/crazy enough to do this then you took the proper caution and did the right thing.

    It also helps when you have half a dozen enthusiastic bystanders that are willing to jump in and help. I saw the video last night on Kiro and it looked like at least 6 people were involved in one way or another in taking this guy down. When the police finally arrived they had to wade into the crowd sitting on the guy.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    It also helps when you have half a dozen enthusiastic bystanders that are willing to jump in and help. I saw the video last night on Kiro and it looked like at least 6 people were involved in one way or another in taking this guy down. When the police finally arrived they had to wade into the crowd sitting on the guy.
    I find this to be a fairly common phenomenon, many people won't do anything until someone else reacts. It is why I feel fairly confident that if something was to go down and me being who I am and I intervene that others will join in.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    The question may be...."If not you, Who?....If not now, When?"

    We are not "superheros", and yes, we are not bullet proof. What is it in "us" that does not allow us to idly stand by when injustice occurs? Citizenship is a Verb and I applaud the actions of these Citizens.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I find this to be a fairly common phenomenon, many people won't do anything until someone else reacts. It is why I feel fairly confident that if something was to go down and me being who I am and I intervene that others will join in.
    tis a social psychological trait that has been studied many many times and studies over the years have shown you should not be that confident others will join in as they are fickle and in fact could turn on you and your action(s)...
    (http://www.brocku.ca/MeadProject/Bog...4/1924_22.html) for your further reading enjoyment as the concepts are quite scary..

    wabbit
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 09-22-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    The article I first read on this is that as the guy was fleeing he was shooting. Then someone, after being shot in the arm, chased down and tackled the guy. Again, this was the first article i read yesterday so they could have been off. But apparently it takes being shot in the arm to piss someone off enough to jump in tackle a bad guy.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    tis a social psychological trait that has been studied many many times and studies over the years have shown you should not be that confident others will join in as they are fickle and in fact could turn on you and your action(s)...
    (http://www.brocku.ca/MeadProject/Bog...4/1924_22.html) for your further reading enjoyment as the concepts are quite scary..

    wabbit
    Yes you are right about turning on you depending on the circumstances. I believe though that most humans are inherently good and if you are correct in your actions they will join you in what is proper. OF course you should be absolutely sure about what is proper. Again though this depends on place (don't accost a gang banger in his neighborhood) time, and circumstances.

    3 Planes hijacked by terrorist found their targets the 4th didn't because someone decided to take action and others followed.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yes you are right about turning on you depending on the circumstances. I believe though that most humans are inherently good and if you are correct in your actions they will join you in what is proper. OF course you should be absolutely sure about what is proper. Again though this depends on place (don't accost a gang banger in his neighborhood) time, and circumstances.

    3 Planes hijacked by terrorist found their targets the 4th didn't because someone decided to take action and others followed.
    The passengers on the fourth found out what the other three were used for. Hats off to Todd Beamer and the rest of those passengers.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    The passengers on the fourth found out what the other three were used for. Hats off to Todd Beamer and the rest of those passengers.
    Mark Bingham, Jeremy Glick.....
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    and any other folks that did the right thing, even when no one else will know.

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    If you can get the drop on someone from behind and are big enough, strong enough and brave/crazy enough to do this then you took the proper caution and did the right thing.
    For sure; but given that the person had already fired on someone, you are completely justified in using lethal force against him. Why bear-hug him, as if he were the proverbial "drunk brother-in-law at a wedding reception?" If you know how to do it, stop the threat (just as you would with a firearm if you had one.) This doesn't require exceptional size or strength, just some training and the proper mindset.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    For sure; but given that the person had already fired on someone, you are completely justified in using lethal force against him. Why bear-hug him, as if he were the proverbial "drunk brother-in-law at a wedding reception?" If you know how to do it, stop the threat (just as you would with a firearm if you had one.) This doesn't require exceptional size or strength, just some training and the proper mindset.
    On a crowded city street, a "Brother In Law Bear Hug" may be far more appropriate a response than pulling a gun and engaging in a gunfight.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Mark Bingham, Jeremy Glick.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    and any other folks that did the right thing, even when no one else will know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    The passengers on the fourth found out what the other three were used for. Hats off to Todd Beamer and the rest of those passengers.
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a Verb
    I'm going to borrow that to add to my sig, if you don't mind...
    In fact, it'd make a good button / bumper sticker / T-shirt
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    On a crowded city street, a "Brother In Law Bear Hug" may be far more appropriate a response than pulling a gun and engaging in a gunfight.
    Did you miss the part where I was talking about unarmed intervention?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Robbery suspect tackled after shooting in downtown Seattle

    http://www.krem.com/news/northwest-news/170728976.html


    by KING 5 News

    KREM.com

    Posted on September 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM

    Gallery

    See all 5 photos »

    A person was shot and injured following what police said was a robbery attempt in downtown Seattle Friday.

    The shooting happened near 6th and Stewart around 10:30 a.m.

    What would you have done if you had saw this play out?

    Would you have shot (assuming you had a clean shot) the guy who did the shooting or tried to run him down and tackle him?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Since I missed the other thread moderator please delete this thread.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    What if you were armed and had a clean shot? Would you have shot the BG in this article or not?

    I have family that tells me that I should not carry because I personally would have shot the BG in this scenario, forget the tackling crap.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    On a crowded city street, a "Brother In Law Bear Hug" may be far more appropriate a response than pulling a gun and engaging in a gunfight.
    Or a crowded mall?

    Lest I remind you what happened to the man who hesitated, and tried to talk the shooter down..
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    Or a crowded mall?

    Lest I remind you what happened to the man who hesitated, and tried to talk the shooter down..
    That was his call. Perhaps he wasn't so ready to open fire in a crowded environment. Apparently you would.


    PS: Could you please post your Mall Shopping Schedule? People might want to adjust their shopping times or at least make sure they're behind you at all times.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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