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Unlawfully arrested?

Michael Porschien

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
25
Location
Youngstown, Ohio, United States
Drama... Really?

Dave,
Would you be so kind as to inform the crowd I didn't contact you in any way to inform you of this thread?
Some of the conspiracy theorists have accused me of running to OFCC when something happens on other forums so they can defend themselves

Let me be the one to "inform the crowd" that no one pointed out this thread to Dave. If you'll remember, in the days after i posted the thread, Dave was the one that voluntarily, if somewhat bullied by Grapeshot, gave me his contact information via PM so that i could speak with a real person, using my voice instead of a keyboard. At that point, no real information had been given about the case, because of all the KYBMS i was getting advised to do. he did not know anything about the particulars, and thus could not have had an agenda or a reason for talking to me besides a desire to help someone in need. He has been very active since then, talking to me regularly, asking for updates on the case, and getting me in touch with other people (members of Open Carry, OFCC, or both) that have been more than willing to give their time, effort, and expertise towards my case. It is because of him, chief among others, that i have been so successful in integrating myself into these groups, and it is because of him that i can say these groups have helped me personally, with their immense support, and legally, with the wealth of information and research. That being said...

I understand the nature of the internet, that things sometimes get off topic. So i was completely ok with the pages of reiterated knife law that came spilling onto the OFCC thread. It was redundant, in many cases, to what my lawyer had already known, but that i was unable to reiterate, so i was, again, content to let the collective reach the same conclusion. I was even ok with the tangential vehicle law debate that went on over there, because it ended quickly enough. But what I am not ok with, and what i must ask to stop, immediately, is the cross-thread debate on whether or not the Open Carry of a firearm is better, or the Concealed Carry of a firearm is better.

I thank each and every one of you that has contributed to this thread or the thread on OFCC. You are all excellent people. But please do not forget that, self-important as it may sound, this thread is not about a long standing argument over points that cannot, at the end of the day, be proven one way or another. This thread, and any current thread with my name as the OP, is about me. They are about my being illegally detained, stolen from, arrested, charged, and jailed for exercising a constitutional right. They are about my criminal defense, my options to fight these bogus charges, and the possible ways that the collective gathered here can step forward, can step to my side, and offer aid in my personal time of need.

Those of you who have been harassed by the police, you can understand a little of the frustration and anger i feel over the entire event. Those of you who have been in my shoes, who have been arrested and thrown in jail like a drunkard or a criminal, can understand more fully. But I personally do not have the words to describe the frustration i feel when i, and my attorney, visit these threads, again both here and on OFCC, and instead of seeing meaningful, helpful content, (even if it is just "We're all rooting for you!) we see drama born of the same hard-headed polarization that made the police arrest me in the first place. So i'll ask, just once, can we please, just for now, drop the hostility, and work together?

Please?
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
Different Dave.

Chuck is referring, I believe, to user "dsk" which is Dave Kessler.

Just another reason that folks should use the screen names instead of real names.

Screen names tend to be less ambiguous.

Please note that I REALLY wanted to say "more unique" instead of "less ambiguous".
 
Last edited:

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
<snip> Can we agree that each situation is unique, and it is impossible to predict how any given situation will turn out? <snip>
Sure. The issue is, why is it that the cops are allowed to be 'unique and impossible to predict' in every situation.
 

Michael Porschien

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
25
Location
Youngstown, Ohio, United States
Changes to the OP

I have changed the text of the original post to copy what was posted on OFCC's thread by me about my arrest. I have neglected this thread in giving new information and detail regarding the case, and that should stop. Below is a copy of the police report, text format, written up after the arrest. I do not have easy access to a scanner or i would have a PDF of it floating around by now. Also coming soon is the audio and transcription of a very interesting phone conversation between a Det/Srg. John Payne, the man that took my phone from me on the original video, and a Captain Franklin Palmer, whose name appears on the arrest report in the "Approved by Officer" cell. The conversation took place after the phone was taken, after i was searched, but before i was formally charged with any crime.

Begin report:

Arretee: Michael Porschien
Date / Time arrested: 8/30/12 at 22:50
Location of Arrest: Madison Ave @ Michigan Ave
Arrest type: crime in progress

Arrestee notes: On 8/30/12 at 22:45 hrs YPD car 103 officer N. Menichini was on routine patrol traveling westbound on Madison Ave approaching Michigan Ave. At this time, officer Menichini observed a male white ( who was soon identified as Porschien, Michael) walking westbound on the north side of Madison Ave and it was immediately apparent that Michael was carrying a large handgun in a black holster on his left hip. Officer Menichini proceeded to turn northbound onto Michigan Ave. Officer Menichini pulled into a driveway on Michigan Ave to turn around, at this time he observed Michael proceed into the middle of Michigan Ave from the sidewalk, then stand on the cement median, and then proceed to the corner of Madison Ave and Michigan Ave where he stood on the sidewalk watching officer Menichini pull up toward his location.

As officer Menichini was approaching Michael, he began going into his front pants pocket then to his rear pants pocket. As officer Menichini exited the vehicle, he reached into his front right pants pocket and pulled out a black cell phone. Officer Menichini inquired as to why he was carrying a firearm and he stated "I am open carrying" and when officer Menichini asked him to clarify, he stated "because this is a dangerous town." At this time Det/Srg J. Payne, and YPD car 104 officer C. Eggleston, and P. Skowron arrived on scene. Due to the fact that Michael was carrying a handgun, officers were concerned for their safety and his safety, Det/Srg, Payne extracted Michael's firearm, cleared one round from the chamber and dropped the magazine carrying 15 rounds and secured the firearm inside marked car 206W. Det/Srg. Payne conducted a pat down for any other weapons and it was discovered during the pat down that Michael was concealing a knife (fold down blade) that was clipped to his belt in the front and was covered by his t-shirt. Det/Srg/ Payne also discovered an extra magazine containing 16 live rounds from his rear pant's pocket.

Officer Menichini placed Michael in handcuffs property gapped and double locked and placed in the rear of marked car 206W. Per Det/Srg. Payne officer Menichini charged Michael with Carrying a Concealed weapon (knife) ORC 2923.12 M-1, and Walking in the Roadway when a sidewalk is provided ORC 4511.50(A), MM. Michael was transported to Mahoning County Jail via YPD car 206W without incident. Officer Menichini logged the knife as evidence and the firearm and ammunition for safe keeping in the 2nd floor YPD evidence room.

It should be noted that when officer Menichini observed Michael walking on Madison Ave (with the handgun in plain view) he was approximately 100 yards from Lyden house (Youngstown State University Dormitory) and he was approximately twenty to thirty yards from several houses on Michigan Ave with several people gathering outside each house. These houses are usually rented to Youngstown State University Students.

End Report

As i pointed out on OFCC, i want to bring a few things to the attention of the people here:

1: The arrest time as noted at the top of the report is off by approximately 20 minutes. i can prove this with the headers on the audio i received from dispatch.
2: The report mentions that i pulled out my phone, but not that it was taken from me. Why does anyone think that is? i can't figure out why they would record half of the story, especially a story that ends so badly for them.
3: The report says that i was on the sidewalk, yet they charge me with walking in a roadway. Also, note that in the video, no mention of the sidewalk was evident. I was never asked a question about crossing the street, nor was my movement in any question at all, until i was formally charged.
4: The report does not give a reason for the search. Officer safety could presumably be a potential, if sketchy, reason to temporarily take the gun, but not to lock it in a car and certainly not for a further search of my person.
 

RCall

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
113
Location
Miami County Ohio
The raw audio with accompanying transcription is up. I really do not feel that it needs any sort of introduction, let it speak for itself. Take a look, and tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9nkddLfN4&feature=youtu.be

I would speculate it wouldn't be easy to get a conviction on a charge of Aggravated Menacing or Disorderly Conduct due to the fact that this was an officer initiated stop and nobody had been scared or otherwise upset. Not that I would support charges or a conviction under those circumstances.

Even after the officer calling in told the captain at least twice that I heard, that there were no citizens complaining or alarmed, towards the end of the phone conversation the captain continues to push a disorderly charge because, "Hes carrying a gun down there scaring people and so forth." The officer calling only made a statement about "our officer" when referring to who had seen the firearm.

It also sounds like the probable cause was "manufactured" on the phone after the initial contact.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Folks, this is why you carry a recorder or other device to record the cops when they stop you.

Many do not know the law and will trip themselves up due to that ignorance.

First, PC is required for arrest. RAS is required for a nonconsensual stop. An openly carried firearm does not, in itself, constitute RAS (let alone PC). If there was no RAS for a stop, no search was permissible. If no search was permissible, any evidence found cannot be used against the person who was searched.

Furthermore, since the stop was unlawful and since the officer was acting under color of law, but without proper authority, he has no immunity. This recording establishes everything needed to roast this cop and possibly the captain too. Go get him!
 

RCall

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
113
Location
Miami County Ohio
Folks, this is why you carry a recorder or other device to record the cops when they stop you.

Many do not know the law and will trip themselves up due to that ignorance.

First, PC is required for arrest. RAS is required for a nonconsensual stop. An openly carried firearm does not, in itself, constitute RAS (let alone PC). If there was no RAS for a stop, no search was permissible. If no search was permissible, any evidence found cannot be used against the person who was searched.

Furthermore, since the stop was unlawful and since the officer was acting under color of law, but without proper authority, he has no immunity. This recording establishes everything needed to roast this cop and possibly the captain too. Go get him!

Okay, okay let me rephrase my last sentence in my last post assuming you may be referring to that:

It also sounds like the reasonable suspicion was "manufactured" on the phone after the initial contact.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Okay, okay let me rephrase my last sentence in my last post assuming you may be referring to that:

It also sounds like the reasonable suspicion was "manufactured" on the phone after the initial contact.

I apologize if my carelessness in any way made you think I was criticizing you. I was talking about how the police misused the term probable cause. That you used their misused term to comment on their underhandedness is entirely appropriate. Most folks here, including you, have more of an understanding of the difference between PC and RAS than these officers do!
 

RCall

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
113
Location
Miami County Ohio
I apologize if my carelessness in any way made you think I was criticizing you. I was talking about how the police misused the term probable cause. That you used their misused term to comment on their underhandedness is entirely appropriate. Most folks here, including you, have more of an understanding of the difference between PC and RAS than these officers do!

No, its all good. Its good to be kept on my toes sometimes, I typed that out as I was listening to it so I screwed up and typed what I was listening to there.
 

BriKuz

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
201
Location
Springfield, MO
The wife and I are meeting family from PA in Youngstown this weekend... as always, we will be open carrying and recording at all times... Hopefully, we will not have the heinous issues that the OP did!
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
After listening to that audio - WOW.

Because of the recording, it's clear that this incident has some elements not usually clearly seen or provable - outright ignorance and a clear conspiracy to charge him with something, ANYTHING. Once again, an open carry stop ends with intimidation - or in Porschien's case, a conspiracy to deprive him of his rights.

This is looking more and more like something the grassroots (directly or through a REAL gun rights organization) needs to go after.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
No settlement.

No "no admission of guilt/wrong doing" garbage.

Can criminal proceedings be started against those two cops?

In Missouri, conspiring to 'X' is a misdemeanor. RSMo Chapter 575 contains statutes for similar conduct of cops here in MO.

Pile on the charges and run up the dollar amount.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Jonathon Norris was recently arrested and convicted (in the initial round, at least) of DC for OC. After the automatic appeal to a jury trial, he was offered a deal where the charges were dropped if he did not pursue any legal action against the cops/city/judge/prosecutor. He took the deal. While I wish he hadn't, I cannot fault him. He did what he deemed best in the situation, given that he had already been slammed so badly, that he would suffer greatly should he proceed, that he might not win anything, and that the offenders might not suffer any at all. He may have made a greater stride for Alabama had he pressed the issue, but he alone was the one who would have to pay any price, so he gets to make the call.

The same is true here. I hope the victim crucifies the perpetrators criminally and civilly. However, it is 100% his choice. I will respect whatever choice he makes. God Bless him for having taken the good fight this far. We are all better off for what he has already endured.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
There not only is no free lunch, but there is no free day in court.

I'm reminded of the phrase, "What price glory?" Each one of us must make that decision on our own terms.
 

JSlack7851

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
291
Location
, Ohio, USA
Posted on OCA

Jeff Slack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9nkddLfN4&feature=youtu.be

This is pretty cut and dry. I've heard that Michael has a lawyer. I think a motion to dismiss on the grounds the stop was illegal, would be in order, but then I come back to the consensual part. He would've had to be detained, or believed he was not free to go, but I didn't hear that on the recording.

I don't believe the city or the judge will throw this out, the judge won't listen to the audio, thats for the jury. Any letters we write will be ignored, the same with walks, protests, and wishful thinking.

We've seen in the past and in the present, cities, municipalities, and political subdivisions, will do what they want (post signage for example) as long as they can get away with it, and dare you to sue them.

IMO, this young man needs to go to trial, not plead out, win, and then sue them. Then again, what damages would you award? He didn't spend a week in jail, he wasn't at gunpoint, in fear for his life. In many cases the legal fees in such a case far outweigh any award he might receive. Making most money hungry lawyers shy away.

In this forum are guys that talk bucketsful about how smart they are, and how much they do for 2A rights. All that bragging doesn't amount to a drop in the bucket every time guys like Michael get arrested on trumped up charges. Maybe instead of being a spy/moderator, picking apart others, time would be better spent writing an Amicus brief on behalf of this young man.

Any letters we should write should be to a organization that sues as a way of doing business, cuz talking doesn't work.

Gentlemen I give you SAF. http://www.saf.org/ These guys are worthy of donations. You always know what they're up to. No secrets here, they won't tell you one thing and disappear for months at a time. "Actions speak louder than words". Words of wisdom.

Flame on, pick me apart.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Jeff Slack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9nkddLfN4&feature=youtu.be

This is pretty cut and dry. I've heard that Michael has a lawyer. I think a motion to dismiss on the grounds the stop was illegal, would be in order, but then I come back to the consensual part. He would've had to be detained, or believed he was not free to go, but I didn't hear that on the recording.

I don't believe the city or the judge will throw this out, the judge won't listen to the audio, thats for the jury. Any letters we write will be ignored, the same with walks, protests, and wishful thinking.

We've seen in the past and in the present, cities, municipalities, and political subdivisions, will do what they want (post signage for example) as long as they can get away with it, and dare you to sue them.

IMO, this young man needs to go to trial, not plead out, win, and then sue them. Then again, what damages would you award? He didn't spend a week in jail, he wasn't at gunpoint, in fear for his life. In many cases the legal fees in such a case far outweigh any award he might receive. Making most money hungry lawyers shy away.

In this forum are guys that talk bucketsful about how smart they are, and how much they do for 2A rights. All that bragging doesn't amount to a drop in the bucket every time guys like Michael get arrested on trumped up charges. Maybe instead of being a spy/moderator, picking apart others, time would be better spent writing an Amicus brief on behalf of this young man.

Any letters we should write should be to a organization that sues as a way of doing business, cuz talking doesn't work.

Gentlemen I give you SAF. http://www.saf.org/ These guys are worthy of donations. You always know what they're up to. No secrets here, they won't tell you one thing and disappear for months at a time. "Actions speak louder than words". Words of wisdom.

Flame on, pick me apart.

You would seem to invite argument, rather than discussion; suggest that spy and moderator are similar/parallel terms - really. Where are these users/posters that only brag, do nothing to help others, and just talk? By and large, I find the posters here to be rather less about themselves than self-promoting.

OCDO is a rallying point, a meeting place, where like minded people come together to discuss and compare notes. It is not in itself a grassroots organization, a formal entity for change; therefore it would be most difficult for OCDO to file an Amicus brief.

Even so, user/members have responded monetarily and with their knowledge to help in the defense of brothers and sisters - they walk the walk.

I belong to a grassroots organization in Virginia that does considerable to advance, protect, and defend the RKBA. That being VCDL - a truly outstanding group which has financially backed law suits, filed Amicus briefs, and daily is in the thick of things. Indeed your ability to carry on NPS land can be traced directly to VCDL, though the focus is on things within the state.

Words of truth.
 
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