Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: Motorcycle transport

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Fife Lake, Michigan
    Posts
    1

    Motorcycle transport

    I am a new member to OC, so far I have found it very informative. I havent exercised my right to openly carry yet, im doing my homework first, but I am looking forward to it. My question is, I ride a motorcycle, am I required to transport it in the same manner as you would in a car, or can I openly carry it because it is plainly visible. Im pretty sure I know the answer, but I am wondering if anyone has any experience with this.

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954
    This has been debated a lot. The problem is, the law says if you're carrying a pistol in a motor vehicle, you need to have a CPL, otherwise, it needs to be unloaded, and as unreachable as you can make it. (I'm paraphrasing.) I know, with motorcycle, you're ON a vehicle, not in it. To be honest, I don't know if this has been tried in court.

    What you need to determine, do you have the money to be a test case? Short of somehow getting an AG opinion, that is what you'd risk by OCing on motorcycle without a CPL. This is part of the reason I have a CPL.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,440
    There have been multiple recent stops of guys OCing on a motorcycle. With the increased visibility and lack of knowledge on the issue by officers, you really should only open carry if you have a CPL. Transporting unloaded, in a locked case is wise.

  4. #4
    Regular Member backenj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Muskegon,Mi
    Posts
    82
    The case doesn't need to be locked, just approved for guns.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,440
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    The case doesn't need to be locked, just approved for guns.
    Since the case would be readily accessible to the rider...I'd recommend locked, but hey it's your lawyer bill.

  6. #6
    Regular Member backenj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Muskegon,Mi
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Since the case would be readily accessible to the rider...I'd recommend locked, but hey it's your lawyer bill.
    Need a lawyer for what? 750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions...
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    In a gun case that is in a saddle bag is not readily accessible while ridding.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,440
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    Need a lawyer for what? 750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions...
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    In a gun case that is in a saddle bag is not readily accessible while ridding.
    Interesting...I did not see anywhere in that cite about "readily accessible WHILE RIDING/DRIVING". Like I said...it's your lawyer bill. Either way, I was just suggesting an extra layer of protection from an over zealous LEO/prosecutor. That's why I said "a locked case is wise"..I didn't say mandated by law.
    Last edited by scot623; 09-22-2012 at 01:19 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member backenj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Muskegon,Mi
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Interesting...I did not see anywhere in that cite about "readily accessible WHILE RIDING/DRIVING". Like I said...it's your lawyer bill. Either way, I was just suggesting an extra layer of protection from an over zealous LEO/prosecutor. That's why I said "a locked case is wise"..I didn't say mandated by law.
    Not saying you said it was a law, just saying it doesn't have to be locked. And if you are transporting it, then the vehicle must be moving. Can't transport with out the vehicle in motion.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,440
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    Not saying you said it was a law, just saying it doesn't have to be locked. And if you are transporting it, then the vehicle must be moving. Can't transport with out the vehicle in motion.
    I don't want to beat this thread to death, but since we're playing nice… So you're telling me no one ever stops there vehicle at a red light or a railroad crossing or a traffic jam? An occupant on the back of your bike(or the rider for that matter) can access a saddle bag?
    Last edited by scot623; 09-22-2012 at 02:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,440
    Staying to the strict wording of the law, without a CPL it appears it is illegal to transport a firearm in a vehicle without trunk if you have a passenger(and the car cannot have fold down rear seats that grant access to the trunk to a passenger in the vehicle). Or for that matter a bike. Because the occupant of a car can easily reach under the seat and grab the firearm(illegal). Or the rider or passenger on a bike can easily reach into a saddlebag or backpack(illegal).
    Last edited by scot623; 09-22-2012 at 02:48 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    318
    I would HIGHLY recommend that the OP only open carry on a motorcycle with a CPL

    and if you don't have a CPL,transport unloaded in a Locked case.

    even if you have hardbags on the bike,put the handgun in a case.

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    1,018
    Locks are cheaper than lawyers. Why risk it?
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    {snip} if you are transporting it, then the vehicle must be moving. Can't transport with out the vehicle in motion.

    Interesting point.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 09-23-2012 at 12:50 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    interesting opinion.
    fify?
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  15. #15
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    The vehicle does not have to be moving .I was in a motorcycle accident in 07,my bike was pinned under a SUV and I was a few feet away lying on the ground when rescue and police arrived.

    while the cop was running my plate he discovered I had a CPL and asked If I was carrying, I said no,my Glock is not on me,its in a holster with a towel wrapped around it in my hard saddlebag. He went off on me at that point saying that it didn't have to be ON me. If it was in reach ,I was in possession of it.

    To make a long story short, He took my gun ,went through both my saddle bags,and Jammed me up pretty good. It was not a good experience.
    after several calls to Brownstown Prosecuting attorney he did give me my Gun back. I will never forget the way that cop screamed obscenities at me
    and treated me like Sh!t while I stood there bleeding all over Telegraph road.
    Sounds to me like he owes you an apology.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448

    Motorcycle transport

    Regarding locked or not: the more hoops you have to jump through to get to your gun if you don't have a CPL, the safer you will be.

    YMMV, IANAL, I won't pay for your lawyer.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Sounds to me like he owes you some money

    fify

  18. #18
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Okemos, MI
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    He went off on me at that point saying that it didn't have to be ON me. If it was in reach, I was in possession of it. To make a long story short, He took my gun ,went through both my saddle bags,and Jammed me up pretty good.
    That's a messed up story. The saddle bags are your trunk. You could get to that about as easily as getting a firearm out of an automobile's trunk. I take it the prosecutor didn't prosecute you, but the cop wrote you up for failure to declare?
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    To protect and serve. Right. And for the oath? Ha!

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    He insisted that I was supposed to declare,I argued that I didn't feel I needed to if it was not on my person and I wasn't even ON the bike at this time.
    I was still in a state of shock at that point after just hitting a car at 45mph, I was a little banged up and disoriented.
    He was on his phone back and fourth with the Prosecutor for about 30 minutes after the Fire trucks and Ambulances left.

    He then told me that he was right and could confiscate my Gun if he felt like it, but was just going to write me 3 tickets instead.
    It was an unusually hot 100+ degree day out that day. And buy the time I got home 70 mles away, My 2yr old French Bulldog was going into a Heat stroke
    And died in my arms. It was a messesd up day.
    It's situations like yours, that caused one of the instructors for my CPL course to advise us to always tell LEOs you have a CPL, even if you're not packing. Because some (read most) think you're supposed to divulge anyway. I've heard horror stories of close relatives, driving vehicles registered to a CPL holding relative, and getting screamed at because they didn't divulge they had CPL. When my sister borrowed my car one time, I told her, if she gets pulled over, to immediately advise the LEO that it's the owner of the car who has a CPL, not her.

    Now, most of you don't know me all that well, so I will tell you that I generally carry, 99.99% of the time. In the 2 weeks before I finally went to the hospital, I was feeling so bad, I did not pack for most of that time, as I was so week, I was afraid I might pass out somewhere, and someone might steal my pistol.

    I was stopped one time, and purely out of habit, I handed over my CPL with the rest of my "papers." When the officer asked where my gun was, I told him, it's at home. He just said ok, called in my info, gave everything back and advised me to slow down.

    Thing is, even if my gun had been unloaded and locked in the trunk, I'd have still shown my CPL. If for no other reason, mostly out of habit. I find I avoid most confrontations that way. I know some of you will disagree with me, that's fine. To each, his or her own. Now, if I'm out walking, OCing, and a cop pulls up and asks for ID, I might give him an argument, providing I'm just out for a walk, and not on my way some place that I need to be at soon. But, that's just my opinion. Everyone has to make their own choices, and pick their battles.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    To protect and serve. Right. And for the oath? Ha!
    Remember, most of the younger ones have been brain washed. It takes a while for that to go away. But I've found it usually does, sooner or later. The ones that it doesn't go away from, usually end up as chief of police.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    It does become habit. I would probably upon getting pulled over, say "I have a CPL and a handgun" even though I don't have a CPL anymore, and then I would sit there feeling stupid for a second.

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Remember, most of the younger ones have been brain washed. It takes a while for that to go away. But I've found it usually does, sooner or later. The ones that it doesn't go away from, usually end up as chief of police.
    The younger ones got brainwashed by the older ones.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 09-24-2012 at 01:47 AM.

  24. #24
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The younger ones got brainwashed by the older ones.
    Most of the older ones I've come across are relatively less brainwashed than the younger ones I've run into.....except for this one young female motorcycle cop in East Lansing. She can pull me over any time.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 09-24-2012 at 07:50 AM.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mason, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    It does become habit. I would probably upon getting pulled over, say "I have a CPL and a handgun" even though I don't have a CPL anymore, and then I would sit there feeling stupid for a second.
    I usually don't say anything, I just hand over everything with my CPL on top.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •