Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Laser sights

  1. #1
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington
    Posts
    792

    Laser sights

    Checked many pages back and couldn't find a thread reguarding this topic so...

    I may be interested in getting a laser sight for my S&W M&P 40. Should I bother? If I get one, what would be a decent yet low cost one to get?

    Please lets stay on topic and not turn this into a battle of opinions.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  2. #2
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Checked many pages back and couldn't find a thread reguarding this topic so...

    I may be interested in getting a laser sight for my S&W M&P 40. Should I bother? If I get one, what would be a decent yet low cost one to get?

    Please lets stay on topic and not turn this into a battle of opinions.
    Personally, I've used both lasers and irons. lasers are not a panacea although they can increase your effectiveness at night. lasers are not plug and play devices, they have to sighted in much like iron sights at a range. also lasers are not effetive for sighting at anything beyond conversational distance, the 75 meter head shot like Security Policeman Andy Brown inflicted on a crazed gunman at an air force base hospital in Spokane would not be practical with lasers. but like anything you just need practice. If you're already good with irons and a good shot then go ahead and buy the laser, it can't hurt you in a close quarters duel to the death, but if you're not then focus on irons and being a good shot first, that will pay off more. the laser is not a substitute for good skill so I would recommend getting one only after you've refined your skill with a handgun to the point where you can make 70 foot shots on paper as easily as you pour milk into your cereal.

    but as far as getting a laser, yeah if you have the money and can a buy a decent sight they're nice, also be careful with brands, some are very good, some aren't worth the box they come in

    *Edit, The brand I've fired before, I don't own one, but I've used a crimson trace sight mounted underneath a ruger LCP is what I used, generally I've heard that the specialized grip mounted laser sight is better then the underhang type, but they're expensive, they're like 330 bucks for your full size M&P but they have a good reputation, I see them sold at alot of cop shops and the like. I don't know how they stack up against other brands though, I haven't the chance or money to review them in depth
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 09-22-2012 at 09:49 PM. Reason: more detail
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  3. #3
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington
    Posts
    792
    Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mag 1.jpg 
Views:	126 
Size:	90.9 KB 
ID:	9258   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mag 5 and 6.jpg 
Views:	120 
Size:	89.3 KB 
ID:	9257  
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  4. #4
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.
    were these one handed or two? and where you firing from a stance?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Extremely pleased with CrimsonTrace laser grips on my daily carry 1911.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington
    Posts
    792
    2 handed, from a stance
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  7. #7
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Well personally I'm not one for flashy gizmos, I'm big on everything being stock, I would continue working with irons but If you want to use a laser there's nothing wrong with it that I can think of, there's nothing negative associated with a laser sight, excpet maybe someone who's too dependent on the LS and it fails when he needs. Murphy can a b!7@& that way so continue to improve with your irons and there should be no problem using one.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  8. #8
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington
    Posts
    792
    I was also thinking about upgrading my white dot sights to a set of tritium night sights with fiberoptics.

    LINK

    something like that would be nice.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  9. #9
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    I was also thinking about upgrading my white dot sights to a set of tritium night sights with fiberoptics.

    LINK

    something like that would be nice.
    Tritium is nice, it provides illuminated sighting without need for batteries
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well personally I'm not one for flashy gizmos, I'm big on everything being stock, I would continue working with irons but If you want to use a laser there's nothing wrong with it that I can think of, there's nothing negative associated with a laser sight, excpet maybe someone who's too dependent on the LS and it fails when he needs. Murphy can a b!7@& that way so continue to improve with your irons and there should be no problem using one.
    They are not the end all, perfect solution, but the are an effective tool.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Tritium is nice, it provides illuminated sighting without need for batteries
    +1 ... laser sights, a toy that you will be playing with and give the time to your adversary to attack you first

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.
    If your adversary is wearing body armor, you would be dead ...

  13. #13
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington
    Posts
    792
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If your adversary is wearing body armor, you would be dead ...
    Ok, what should I be aiming for? I was taught to always aim for the center of mass not the head.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  14. #14
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Ok, what should I be aiming for? I was taught to always aim for the center of mass not the head.
    Well these days alot of cops are now practicing "the failure drill" in which you fire two shots at the center of mass, and if the subject is wearing armor you adjust aim and hit the head

    even if your opponent is wearing good body armor getting slammed by .40 S&W will knock the wind out of him.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  15. #15
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Glendale, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If your adversary is wearing body armor, you would be dead ...
    If that was actually his AR in .308, the bad guy would be dead.

    How often, not possibilities, do armed citizens come across bad guys wearing body armor?

    Still as others have said practicing failure to stop drills is a good thing.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Glendale, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Checked many pages back and couldn't find a thread reguarding this topic so...

    I may be interested in getting a laser sight for my S&W M&P 40. Should I bother? If I get one, what would be a decent yet low cost one to get?

    Please lets stay on topic and not turn this into a battle of opinions.
    Remember you get what you pay for, there are cheap lasers and good lasers, pick one.

    I have a crimson trace on my M&P, it's just another tool in the toolbox. My take on lasers is that once it's sighted in it will allow me to use the gun in a unconventional position where I my not be able to get a proper sight picture. When I am actuality shooting the gun with a proper sight picture I can't see the laser dot because my sights cover it

    Additionally I like the Crimson Trace as no special holsters are needed.

    Of course everything is my opinion and it's worth everything you paid for it.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  17. #17
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    If that was actually his AR in .308, the bad guy would be dead.

    How often, not possibilities, do armed citizens come across bad guys wearing body armor?

    Still as others have said practicing failure to stop drills is a good thing.
    A man named Mark Alan Wilson was killed in Texas after engaging a body armored assailant with a 1911 .45 Wilson shot the BG then went to secure his weapon, but he was wearing armor so he got back up and killed Wilson while he was coming to take away his rifle.

    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HR00740F.htm
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 09-23-2012 at 05:21 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.
    Dude, you need some more practice. You should be able to stay within the 9-ring at that distance.

    As for where to aim - draw a line connecting the two nipples, and extend the ends of that line up to a point between the eyes. Anywhere in that triangle should do the trick - even a hit to the lower jaw is likely to cause the BG enough grief to stop in spite of not being a fatal shot.

    There are those who suggest tou also draw a line from one hip to the other, then extend the line to a point where the legs join the torso. This is a stopper shot with the intent to shatter the pelvis or hit the descending aorta.

    Get some targets like these http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ite...?item=SB-ANT-1 . The vital organs are easily seen when you are close up, but are faint enough that even a 5 yards you are going to have to squint just right to be able to see the innards. You may also want to get something like these http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps....10000%7e010100 to practice aiming/shooting at a target that is not straight-on facing towards you. There are enough possibilities to cover just about any scenario you might run into IRL, and a few some folks say are totally imaginary (OMGZOMBIES!!!!ELEVENTY!!).

    In the interest of full disclosure: I do not get a penny for recommending these targets, nor do I get any free for doing so. Maybe I ought to write them and ask if they would consider comping me a few every time I recommend them? Nah, too much work.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  19. #19
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Glendale, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    A man named Mark Alan Wilson was killed in Texas after engaging a body armored assailant with a 1911 .45 Wilson shot the BG then went to secure his weapon, but he was wearing armor so he got back up and killed Wilson while he was coming to take away his rifle.

    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HR00740F.htm
    Of course it does happen, since it exists a bad guy will eventually use it, hence the need to recognize when it happens and to have a backup plan, like the failure drill.

    Interesting story on the vest subject here
    The Outdoor channel seems yo have a bit about lasers, Crimson trace is a sponsor of the show.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Pacific, WA
    Posts
    764
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Dude, you need some more practice. You should be able to stay within the 9-ring at that distance.

    As for where to aim - draw a line connecting the two nipples, and extend the ends of that line up to a point between the eyes. Anywhere in that triangle should do the trick - even a hit to the lower jaw is likely to cause the BG enough grief to stop in spite of not being a fatal shot.


    In the Infantry we called this the Incapacitation Zone. It's what I train my Wife to hit with controlled pairs.

    To the OP:
    My 1911 has Night Sights. Some people say they are a gimmick. They say if you can see your target then you can see your sights. They have obviously never had to shoot in the dark. People silhouette and skin reflects. Black gun sights in the dark do not.

    Most of my experience with lasers involved rifles but I do like the crimson trace and you can turn them off for battery usage/tactical reasons.
    If your able, try to get outside to shoot. I find it is better for training. (At least for me that is) I try to go once a week.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    They can be effective, once dialed-in, but are'nt exactly a replacement for sights and /or a light. They are good for night/poor lighting use, to get "on target" quickly vs. trying to get even a rough sight picture in poor/no lighting.But, this all assumes you being able to adequately SEE the target, to begin with...
    Have mounted and used one on my 870, with good effect, to get roughly where I need to shoot, but havent yet found one to try on my .45, so..
    I find that, with shotguns, they can come in very handy in low/no lighting situations-for shotguns that have only a bead front-sight, when stock.

    In day/lighted situations, they arent very useful, most of the time.

    I've also tried those fiber-optic replacement sights, as well. Useless, really, unless you've kept the shotgun in a lighted area for a while, prior to use, which is unlikely, unless you sleep with the lights on at night... (assuming shotgun is kept near the bed for immediate access, when needed).

  22. #22
    Regular Member xdmcompact's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St Louis City
    Posts
    289
    I use a Viridian C5L with A Viridian Tac Loc holster.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	xdm pg.jpg 
Views:	74 
Size:	25.7 KB 
ID:	9295   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	xdm tacloc holster2.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	40.3 KB 
ID:	9296  

  23. #23
    Regular Member NG19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Warrensburg, Missouri
    Posts
    113

    Re: Laser sights

    I use the Viridian X5L it is larger than the C5L, but to me the extra lumins on the strobe are what I was looking for in a home defense laser pistol combo. I love the viridian lasers, because even in the noon day sun you can still see the beam. Although very distracting to other shooters, sighting the laser is very critical to accuracy, no matter what type.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •