Laser sights

Checked many pages back and couldn't find a thread reguarding this topic so...

I may be interested in getting a laser sight for my S&W M&P 40. Should I bother? If I get one, what would be a decent yet low cost one to get?

Please lets stay on topic and not turn this into a battle of opinions.

Grim_Night said:

Checked many pages back and couldn't find a thread reguarding this topic so...

I may be interested in getting a laser sight for my S&W M&P 40. Should I bother? If I get one, what would be a decent yet low cost one to get?

Please lets stay on topic and not turn this into a battle of opinions.

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Personally, I've used both lasers and irons. lasers are not a panacea although they can increase your effectiveness at night. lasers are not plug and play devices, they have to sighted in much like iron sights at a range. also lasers are not effetive for sighting at anything beyond conversational distance, the 75 meter head shot like Security Policeman Andy Brown inflicted on a crazed gunman at an air force base hospital in Spokane would not be practical with lasers. but like anything you just need practice. If you're already good with irons and a good shot then go ahead and buy the laser, it can't hurt you in a close quarters duel to the death, but if you're not then focus on irons and being a good shot first, that will pay off more. the laser is not a substitute for good skill so I would recommend getting one only after you've refined your skill with a handgun to the point where you can make 70 foot shots on paper as easily as you pour milk into your cereal.

but as far as getting a laser, yeah if you have the money and can a buy a decent sight they're nice, also be careful with brands, some are very good, some aren't worth the box they come in

*Edit, The brand I've fired before, I don't own one, but I've used a crimson trace sight mounted underneath a ruger LCP is what I used, generally I've heard that the specialized grip mounted laser sight is better then the underhang type, but they're expensive, they're like 330 bucks for your full size M&P but they have a good reputation, I see them sold at alot of cop shops and the like. I don't know how they stack up against other brands though, I haven't the chance or money to review them in depth

Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.

Grim_Night said:

Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.

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were these one handed or two? and where you firing from a stance?

Extremely pleased with CrimsonTrace laser grips on my daily carry 1911.

2 handed, from a stance

Well personally I'm not one for flashy gizmos, I'm big on everything being stock, I would continue working with irons but If you want to use a laser there's nothing wrong with it that I can think of, there's nothing negative associated with a laser sight, excpet maybe someone who's too dependent on the LS and it fails when he needs. Murphy can a b!7@& that way so continue to improve with your irons and there should be no problem using one.

I was also thinking about upgrading my white dot sights to a set of tritium night sights with fiberoptics.

LINK

something like that would be nice.

Grim_Night said:

I was also thinking about upgrading my white dot sights to a set of tritium night sights with fiberoptics.

LINK

something like that would be nice.

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Tritium is nice, it provides illuminated sighting without need for batteries

EMNofSeattle said:

Well personally I'm not one for flashy gizmos, I'm big on everything being stock, I would continue working with irons but If you want to use a laser there's nothing wrong with it that I can think of, there's nothing negative associated with a laser sight, excpet maybe someone who's too dependent on the LS and it fails when he needs. Murphy can a b!7@& that way so continue to improve with your irons and there should be no problem using one.

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They are not the end all, perfect solution, but the are an effective tool.

EMNofSeattle said:

Tritium is nice, it provides illuminated sighting without need for batteries

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+1 ... laser sights, a toy that you will be playing with and give the time to your adversary to attack you first

Grim_Night said:

Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.

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If your adversary is wearing body armor, you would be dead ...

davidmcbeth said:

If your adversary is wearing body armor, you would be dead ...

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Ok, what should I be aiming for? I was taught to always aim for the center of mass not the head.

Grim_Night said:

Ok, what should I be aiming for? I was taught to always aim for the center of mass not the head.

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Well these days alot of cops are now practicing "the failure drill" in which you fire two shots at the center of mass, and if the subject is wearing armor you adjust aim and hit the head

even if your opponent is wearing good body armor getting slammed by .40 S&W will knock the wind out of him.

davidmcbeth said:

If your adversary is wearing body armor, you would be dead ...

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If that was actually his AR in .308, the bad guy would be dead.

How often, not possibilities, do armed citizens come across bad guys wearing body armor?

Still as others have said practicing failure to stop drills is a good thing.

Grim_Night said:

Checked many pages back and couldn't find a thread reguarding this topic so...

I may be interested in getting a laser sight for my S&W M&P 40. Should I bother? If I get one, what would be a decent yet low cost one to get?

Please lets stay on topic and not turn this into a battle of opinions.

Click to expand...

Remember you get what you pay for, there are cheap lasers and good lasers, pick one.

I have a crimson trace on my M&P, it's just another tool in the toolbox. My take on lasers is that once it's sighted in it will allow me to use the gun in a unconventional position where I my not be able to get a proper sight picture. When I am actuality shooting the gun with a proper sight picture I can't see the laser dot because my sights cover it

Additionally I like the Crimson Trace as no special holsters are needed.

Of course everything is my opinion and it's worth everything you paid for it. :banana:

Phoenix David said:

If that was actually his AR in .308, the bad guy would be dead.

How often, not possibilities, do armed citizens come across bad guys wearing body armor?

Still as others have said practicing failure to stop drills is a good thing.

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A man named Mark Alan Wilson was killed in Texas after engaging a body armored assailant with a 1911 .45 Wilson shot the BG then went to secure his weapon, but he was wearing armor so he got back up and killed Wilson while he was coming to take away his rifle.

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/79R/billtext/html/HR00740F.htm

Grim_Night said:

Just as an addon, These are some pics of my most recent trip to the range. First pic is the first mag of 15 rounds out of 6 mags total and the 2nd pic is the 5th and 6th mags. Both targets were at self defence range of 7 yeards or 21 feet.

Click to expand...

Dude, you need some more practice. You should be able to stay within the 9-ring at that distance.

As for where to aim - draw a line connecting the two nipples, and extend the ends of that line up to a point between the eyes. Anywhere in that triangle should do the trick - even a hit to the lower jaw is likely to cause the BG enough grief to stop in spite of not being a fatal shot.

There are those who suggest tou also draw a line from one hip to the other, then extend the line to a point where the legs join the torso. This is a stopper shot with the intent to shatter the pelvis or hit the descending aorta.

Get some targets like these http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=SB-ANT-1 . The vital organs are easily seen when you are close up, but are faint enough that even a 5 yards you are going to have to squint just right to be able to see the innards. You may also want to get something like these http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=~010000~010100 to practice aiming/shooting at a target that is not straight-on facing towards you. There are enough possibilities to cover just about any scenario you might run into IRL, and a few some folks say are totally imaginary (OMGZOMBIES!!!!ELEVENTY!!).

In the interest of full disclosure: I do not get a penny for recommending these targets, nor do I get any free for doing so. Maybe I ought to write them and ask if they would consider comping me a few every time I recommend them? Nah, too much work.

stay safe.

EMNofSeattle said:

A man named Mark Alan Wilson was killed in Texas after engaging a body armored assailant with a 1911 .45 Wilson shot the BG then went to secure his weapon, but he was wearing armor so he got back up and killed Wilson while he was coming to take away his rifle.

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/79R/billtext/html/HR00740F.htm

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Of course it does happen, since it exists a bad guy will eventually use it, hence the need to recognize when it happens and to have a backup plan, like the failure drill.

Interesting story on the vest subject here
The Outdoor channel seems yo have a bit about lasers, Crimson trace is a sponsor of the show.

skidmark said:

Dude, you need some more practice. You should be able to stay within the 9-ring at that distance.

As for where to aim - draw a line connecting the two nipples, and extend the ends of that line up to a point between the eyes. Anywhere in that triangle should do the trick - even a hit to the lower jaw is likely to cause the BG enough grief to stop in spite of not being a fatal shot.

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In the Infantry we called this the Incapacitation Zone. It's what I train my Wife to hit with controlled pairs.

To the OP:
My 1911 has Night Sights. Some people say they are a gimmick. They say if you can see your target then you can see your sights. They have obviously never had to shoot in the dark. People silhouette and skin reflects. Black gun sights in the dark do not.

Most of my experience with lasers involved rifles but I do like the crimson trace and you can turn them off for battery usage/tactical reasons.
If your able, try to get outside to shoot. I find it is better for training. (At least for me that is) I try to go once a week.