Devils advocate here....scenario.

Welcome to Spokane Valley! I'm a semi Valley dweller. I live in the valley, but outside the "City Limits". If you like fishing, hit me up we have like 50 lakes/rivers to fish in within an hour and half or so drive. The Bass probably isn't as good here as in Texas, but they're pretty decent.

Orphan said:

Superduty Are you free Saturday morning? If you are I will set up an OC meeting at The Donut Parade. That way you can come meet several of us that OC regularly and have you first Spokane OC experience in the company of others.


Anyway welcome to Spokane, relax and enjoy the freedom you never had in TEXAS.

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I'm down for a Donut Parade meetup Saturday morning! Could use a yummy Maple/Bacon Bar and we haven't met up all Summer so we're over due!

-Thor

P.S. Orphan, he came from Texas, not Florida.

P.S. Orphan, he came from Texas, not Florida. [/QUOTE]

Its been a long day, thanks for the correction.

To make you feel a little better about OC.

For your reading pleasure, the Spokane County Sheriffs training bulletin. (City of Spokane Valley Police Department is contracted to the County Sheriff, all SVPD are deputies.) You can see from this that they are pretty much aware and up to speed. I cant think of anyone here recently that has been hassled by Deputies. Also Spokane Police seems to be doing okay as there have been a few "positive" encounters with them.

Never mind what EMNofSeattle has to say about the "name rank serial number etc" stuff.

Never ever volunteer any information and yes that does mean don't give them your name, address, etc.

Never disclose any more information than you are legally obligated to disclose. There is good information in the Washington area of the Forum that covers that.

If you give them you name you might have the same or similar name as a wanted criminal and now that you have told them your name they will run it to find out if you're a known criminal.
If your name comes back as "hot" you could be wearing nickle plated connected handcuffs.

Freedom1Man said:

Never mind what EMNofSeattle has to say about the "name rank serial number etc" stuff.

Never ever volunteer any information and yes that does mean don't give them your name, address, etc.

Never disclose any more information than you are legally obligated to disclose. There is good information in the Washington area of the Forum that covers that.

If you give them you name you might have the same or similar name as a wanted criminal and now that you have told them your name they will run it to find out if you're a known criminal.
If your name comes back as "hot" you could be wearing nickle plated connected handcuffs.

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And if the officers issues you any form of citation and you don't ID yourself you might anyway.

Whether or not to comply with ID requests is your choice, if you choose to not ID yourself that's your preference, I stated in my original post it's not mandatory but I do it anyway. to each their own

Dave_pro2a said:

What this sort of behavior really means is "Sorry defendant, but the key evidence that would have exonerated is missing. Enjoy your time in prison." Followed by the common threat of "plead guilty to a lesser charge, or you'll face the maximum + whatever else we can tack on."

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Spoliation of evidence. If one side has to destroy or "lose" evidence then the court assumes that they had a good reason to do so and acts accordingly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation

EMNofSeattle said:

And if the officers issues you any form of citation and you don't ID yourself you might anyway.

Whether or not to comply with ID requests is your choice, if you choose to not ID yourself that's your preference, I stated in my original post it's not mandatory but I do it anyway. to each their own

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That was covered.... Never give any more information than you are REQUIRED to.

If you are OBLIGATED to ID yourself then do so.

And I said never VOLUNTEER information.

I think you should settle down and read before responding.

I think it was Navy, or maybe Sudden Valley Gunner, that said one time: Write me a ticket for what I am doing that is illegal and I will give you my name, address, and BOD. Anyway, at the worst, you get a ticket, he get's his information...and if the ticket is bogus, he may also get some extra training later.

I have OC'd since 1970...some of it unlicensed, some of it licensed...(thanks to Lowry and his jacking 9.41 all over the place in 1994. Fortunately, most of his "legacy" has been thrown out, no we need to get rid of the rest of it)

In that time I have had 3 words with LE about my carry. First, deputy asked "hunting" I answered "yep"...this was in response to a MWAG call (in a grocery store) to the Chelan Co Sheriff's office about 25 yeas ago. Second encounter..CoP city of Tonasket "When are you and your wife going to join our gun club?" (that was about 8 years ago) Third encounter: Skagit Co Sheriff's deputy at the Clear Lake boat ramp "what is it?" me "CZ85" Him "nice gun" (that was this summer)

I don't think you need to worry much.

Go back in the forum and read up on some who have had interactions ( not the ones with low postings, they are newbies who didnt do their research and in most cases set up back by training local law enforcement that it is ok to approach us and ask for ID ). What would really benifit you is hooking up with some of the guys here who meet up for coffee.

Difdi said:

One thing that's worth noting here is that the officer does not need to tell you what his Reasonable Articulable Suspicion or Probable Cause is. He has to justify himself to his supervisor and maybe a judge. But not you, during the encounter (consensual or otherwise).

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Cite.

And I am not talking about the formal charges read to you in court.

Since authority needs to be granted I'd like to see the law that states cops can just arrest you. What I do see is, warrants which would be informing. And when a crime is done in the presence of an officer. Nothing granting cops the ability to arrest you without you knowing you did anything wrong.

sudden valley gunner said:

Since authority needs to be granted I'd like to see the law that states cops can just arrest you. What I do see is, warrants which would be informing. And when a crime is done in the presence of an officer. Nothing granting cops the ability to arrest you without you knowing you did anything wrong.

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Most of the time a Cop does not see the crime that is committed, this is why you do not talk to Cops. If you talk to Cops you may very well give RAS/PC to arrest you. Many people end up admitting they did a crime during conversation with the Cop, their mouths put them in jail more times than not.

Orphan said:

Most of the time a Cop does not see the crime that is committed, this is why you do not talk to Cops. If you talk to Cops you may very well give RAS/PC to arrest you. Many people end up admitting they did a crime during conversation with the Cop, their mouths put them in jail more times than not.

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A LEO must witness a misdemeanor in order to arrest/cite you for the violation.

A LEO does not need to witness a felony to arrest/cite you for the crime.

RCW 10.31.100

A police officer having probable cause to believe that a person has committed or is committing a felony shall have the authority to arrest the person without a warrant. A police officer may arrest a person without a warrant for committing a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor only when the offense is committed in the presence of the officer, except as provided in subsections (1) through (10) of this section.

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gogodawgs said:

A LEO must witness a misdemeanor in order to arrest/cite you for the violation.

A LEO does not need to witness a felony to arrest/cite you for the crime.

RCW 10.31.100

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Correct.

gogodawgs said:

A LEO must witness a misdemeanor in order to arrest/cite you for the violation.

A LEO does not need to witness a felony to arrest/cite you for the crime.

RCW 10.31.100

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Absolutely correct + 1.

A cop would still need PC to arrest you for a felony, a witnesses statement, DNA, the red dye on your face from the bank bag, you meeting the description of the guy that just robbed the AM PM down the street or your big mouth can also give him PC to arrest you. Just because Cops can arrest for felonies without witnessing them does not mean they can arrest without PC. Keeping in mind that PC can be made to fit like a finely tailored suit even of you are innocent.

sudden valley gunner said:

Cite.

And I am not talking about the formal charges read to you in court.

Since authority needs to be granted I'd like to see the law that states cops can just arrest you. What I do see is, warrants which would be informing. And when a crime is done in the presence of an officer. Nothing granting cops the ability to arrest you without you knowing you did anything wrong.

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You're right, it is illegal to arrest someone without probable cause, but there is no law anywhere that requires that officer to make YOU agree that he has probable cause to arrest you. He will have to justify himself to his chain of command and judge but not you. that's a totally separate thing from saying he can arrest you for nothing.

EMNofSeattle said:

And if the officers issues you any form of citation and you don't ID yourself you might anyway.

Whether or not to comply with ID requests is your choice, if you choose to not ID yourself that's your preference, I stated in my original post it's not mandatory but I do it anyway. to each their own

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"They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

EMNofSeattle said:

You're right, it is illegal to arrest someone without probable cause, but there is no law anywhere that requires that officer to make YOU agree that he has probable cause to arrest you. He will have to justify himself to his chain of command and judge but not you. that's a totally separate thing from saying he can arrest you for nothing.

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But were does the law say he can arrest you without giving you a reason?

All authority is granted I don't see where we granted that authority.

I didn't say you have to agree, with his RS or PC.

I'll wait for the cite.