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Thread: Almost had to pull the trigger tonight...

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Almost had to pull the trigger tonight...

    So I almost had to pull the trigger tonight. I was out walking with the Mrs and my little Jack Russell. We had walked about 3 miles and we were starting the last leg back to our house. I live in a highly populated area in Hampton Roads (VA). As we turned the corner and started walking down the next street, I heard barking behind me. No big deal, I thought, because there are plenty of dogs in the neighborhood and they always bark at my puppy (who oddly enough never barks back, or at all). I turned around just to make sure though. At this point I should probably mention I had a run-in with a quite vicious Pit back in July (before I started carrying). This run in cost me a trip to the hospital. Ever since I have been pretty scared of large dogs. So I turned around and saw this dog running at me, barking. I got really scared and, with practiced speed, drew my Glock 19 and aimed it at the advancing dog. My wife saw fit to tell me to stop. (Apparently she didn't think the dog was scary. I maintain that *she* wasn't the one sent to a hospital with puncture wounds to the forearm from a dog bite). With my pistol still pointed at the dog, I gave a stay command to it, to see if he would halt his advance. It actually worked, and the dog sat in the middle of the street. I reholstered, figuring the threat was over, and gave the dog a stay command. He stayed, and I backed away slowly until my wife and I were able to turn down the next street. I was so stressed out over the whole situation I actually had to sit curb-side for several moments to calm my heart down. I figure the most important thing was that everyone, including both dogs, made it out of the situation safely.
    I welcome your questions, comments, and concerns regarding this incident.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    See dogs are not stupid !

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    See dogs are not stupid !
    Well I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. My Lucky is pretty smart, but I don't think he would have stopped if a stranger had told him to.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    See that's why I hate Chihuahuas! Little rat dogs! LOL! just kidding.

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    Regular Member moonie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    See that's why I hate Chihuahuas! Little rat dogs! LOL! just kidding.
    You'd have had to shoot my Chihuahua, he is a vicious little thing, we keep him chained up in the back yard... kidding

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    ...I welcome your questions, comments, and concerns regarding this incident.
    My suggestion is that you should have called the police. I suggest this any time one apparently threatens or actually draws their gun.

    I would rather be the first person to call the police than the one explaining/justifying my actions after someone else has reported some other version of events.

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Almost had to pull the trigger tonight...

    My dogs are obedient but I don't think they'd listen to a stranger. I'm glad it all worked out OK.
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    At the same time as you said "stay" you didn't happen to notice your pup make any kind of movement of his own? Say... a quick nod, or using his paw to make a cutting motion across the jugular region? Have you considered your dog doesn't have to bark because your dog is sometimes referred to as The Dogfather?

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwaterous View Post
    At the same time as you said "stay" you didn't happen to notice your pup make any kind of movement of his own? Say... a quick nod, or using his paw to make a cutting motion across the jugular region? Have you considered your dog doesn't have to bark because your dog is sometimes referred to as The Dogfather?
    Haha.. My pup was walking on his leash held by his "mother" ahead of us. But that is a funny thought.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    My suggestion is that you should have called the police. I suggest this any time one apparently threatens or actually draws their gun.

    I would rather be the first person to call the police than the one explaining/justifying my actions after someone else has reported some other version of events.
    My issue with this is that we were out late at night (not illegal or even frowned upon, but we were alone), and there were no other people around. We disappeared from the scene afterwards, because there was no one who would have called the police. (Unless that dog had a cell phone) By calling the police, I would have to break my rule of "Never talk to the police (unless you HAVE to)".
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Jay Jacobs's Avatar
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    I've chased away a vicious growling dog by simply spreading my arms to appear larger and becoming the aggressor.

    Personally, the dog in question would have to be either chasing down a small child or have already drawn blood before I'd feel confident in shooting it.

    1) I don't care to get sued or arrested

    2) An armed citizen shooting someone's "puppy" sure looks bad on the evening news
    Last edited by Jay Jacobs; 09-24-2012 at 01:24 PM.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Jacobs View Post
    I've chased away a vicious growling dog by simply spreading my arms to appear larger and becoming the aggressor.

    Personally, the dog in question would have to be either chasing down a small child or have already drawn blood before I'd feel confident in shooting it.
    Would you feel the same way about a person? Would he have already had to knock a couple of your teeth out, or would showing a disposition of violence, such as brandishing a knife, be sufficient for you to pull the trigger?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Jacobs View Post
    I've chased away a vicious growling dog by simply spreading my arms to appear larger and becoming the aggressor.

    Personally, the dog in question would have to be either chasing down a small child or have already drawn blood before I'd feel confident in shooting it.

    1) I don't care to get sued or arrested

    2) An armed citizen shooting someone's "puppy" sure looks bad on the evening news
    In response to your edit:
    Let me use the Pit attack as my example. Both the animal control officer and the VBPD officer that responded said that I would have been justified in shooting the dog to protect myself.
    And we already know most media is Anti-2A anyways, and will warp the facts to sell their stories.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    ...snip.. My wife saw fit to tell me to stop.
    Not to sound harsh but I don't know of another way to put it but your wife needs to get on-board with the program. Family members need to learn that when the carrier make a decision to go to gun it's time for them to ****, it's not a time for them it give their feelings about the situation.

    The last thing someone needs is the significant other (SO) adding a distraction "Don't shoot him baby!" which can cause your thinking to reset for a second (ODDA loop) or can give something away that you didn't want to "Pull out your gun and shoot him baby"

    OC and CC needs to have an immediate action plan, simpler the better, "Honey if I draw my gun, you get behind me and call 911 on your cell phone"
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix david View Post
    not to sound harsh but i don't know of another way to put it but your wife needs to get on-board with the program. Family members need to learn that when the carrier make a decision to go to gun it's time for them to ****, it's not a time for them it give their feelings about the situation.

    The last thing someone needs is the significant other (so) adding a distraction "don't shoot him baby!" which can cause your thinking to reset for a second (odda loop) or can give something away that you didn't want to "pull out your gun and shoot him baby"

    oc and cc needs to have an immediate action plan, simpler the better, "honey if i draw my gun, you get behind me and call 911 on your cell phone"
    +1
    Last edited by Esanders2008; 09-24-2012 at 03:47 PM.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Mark 1911's Avatar
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    I had a similar experience when I was only 17 or 18. Me and a buddy were walking some old tracks that cut through his dad's farm with our .22 rifles. We saw a hound dog coming down the tracks from quite a ways off, from a distance didn't look like anything unusual. But when it got close it wasn't pretty, it was emaciated, foaming at the mouth, growling and baring his teeth - really looked like a very sick dog, maybe rabid but don't know for sure. Was hoping he would go away but instead it charged toward us in a very agressive manor, he was going to bite one of us for sure. That was the only dog I've ever shot. One shot between the eyes, instant kill. We called the sheriff's office and reported it, even told them we thought it was rabid, but they didn't seem too interested. I know I did the right thing, but it still makes me sick to think about it, almost 40 years later.
    Last edited by Mark 1911; 09-24-2012 at 04:17 PM.

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    Re: Almost had to pull the trigger tonight...

    You certainly would have been justified, and it sounds like you handled yourself well, better than most.

    This example does make the case for carrying something LessThanLethal as an alternative. When I was a kid, I carried a bottle of soapy water. It is surprisingly effective. Today, I would carry the fogging pepper spray on my weak side, and still have my gun drawn strong side. But who am I kidding. I don't walk anywhere. :-)


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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    You certainly would have been justified, and it sounds like you handled yourself well, better than most.

    This example does make the case for carrying something LessThanLethal as an alternative. When I was a kid, I carried a bottle of soapy water. It is surprisingly effective. Today, I would carry the fogging pepper spray on my weak side, and still have my gun drawn strong side. But who am I kidding. I don't walk anywhere. :-)


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    I have been pepper sprayed before, and I can honestly say it was the most painful experience of my life. I don't like risking that a strong wind will blow it back in my face. Strong wind CAN cause a bullet to go a little left or right, but never back into my face.
    Last edited by Esanders2008; 09-24-2012 at 04:26 PM.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Re: Almost had to pull the trigger tonight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I have been pepper sprayed before, and I can honestly say it was the most painful experience of my life. I don't like risking that a strong wind will blow it back in my face. Strong wind CAN cause a bullet to go a little left or right, but never back into my face.
    True true, and certainly a consideration. Another thing I forgot to mention, since dogs have X,000 times more sensitive noses than us, can you imagine how it affects them? I mean, if it is possible to drive an animal to the brink of suicide, that has got to be it.




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    Regular Member Jay Jacobs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    In response to your edit:
    Let me use the Pit attack as my example. Both the animal control officer and the VBPD officer that responded said that I would have been justified in shooting the dog to protect myself.
    And we already know most media is Anti-2A anyways, and will warp the facts to sell their stories.
    Point taken and I don't necessarily disagree. I was just saying what I'd do.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David
    "Honey if I draw my gun, you get behind me and call 911 on your cell phone"
    Except that if you're convinced your life is in danger, wouldn't you want your loved one(s) out of the way?
    "If I draw my pistol, you run sideways from me as far as you can, or until you find something to hide behind, then call 911."
    That way, if someone comes at you or throws lead at you, your wife/child/parent is out of the way of harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by BB62
    My suggestion is that you should have called the police.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008
    By calling the police, I would have to break my rule of "Never talk to the police (unless you HAVE to)".
    You just felt your life was in danger. That's a reasonable time to call police.
    Maybe it'd only take one more report for that dog to be classified as dangerous, the owner ticketed, & the dog destroyed.
    The other reason to have a police report is so you don't seem like you do now - someone working on a creative writing project, hoping to get reactions.
    There have been lots of posts similar to yours, generally by new people, with the same general flavor & tone.

    Personally, there have been (IIRC) 2 things that have happened to me which I've reported here which did not have a police report &/or news article to back them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008
    I live in a highly populated area
    and yet
    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008
    we were out late at night... and there were no other people around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008
    with practiced speed, drew my Glock 19 and aimed it at the advancing dog
    This seriously sounds like a creative writing exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008
    the dog sat in the middle of the street. I reholstered, figuring the threat was over
    Have you heard of the Tueller drill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008
    I was so stressed out over the whole situation I actually had to sit curb-side for several moments
    This would have been a dandy time for your wife to call & report the attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    My suggestion is that you should have called the police. I suggest this any time one apparently threatens or actually draws their gun.

    I would rather be the first person to call the police than the one explaining/justifying my actions after someone else has reported some other version of events.
    Yes Esanders, you totally should of called the police. They would of helped just in time when you are all bleeding out on the ground or have superficial wounds. How dare you try to protect yourself in a life-threatening situation.

    Is bb62 serious?
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Except that if you're convinced your life is in danger, wouldn't you want your loved one(s) out of the way?
    "If I draw my pistol, you run sideways from me as far as you can, or until you find something to hide behind, then call 911."
    That way, if someone comes at you or throws lead at you, your wife/child/parent is out of the way of harm.
    My point was to have a plan ready in advance.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    Yes Esanders, you totally should of called the police. They would of helped just in time when you are all bleeding out on the ground or have superficial wounds. How dare you try to protect yourself in a life-threatening situation.

    Is bb62 serious?
    "Should of"? You mean "Should have".

    And, yes, I'm serious - but it's clear you didn't read carefully or you don't understand - my meaning was to call the police and report the incident, not call and wait for LE to come on scene.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Wow.. I take a quick nap and now there are more posts than I can respond to.

    1. As far as this sounding like a creative writing exercise, I did that on purpose. It is so I can organize my thoughts into a logical string, rather than type out lists like I usually do. While I have "dressed up" the story in a sense with flowing prose, I assure you the story is true.

    2. I didn't want to call the police for two reasons: I was in Chesapeake, and they were not friendly when my dad reported his guns being stolen. Anyone who wants more details about that can look at my post in the VA sub-forum. TL;DR, they tend to "collect" guns. The second reason is that there wasn't, IMO, an incident to report. This particular dog wasn't snarling or foaming at the mouth, it simply charged at me and my dog as we walked by. The ONLY reason I even drew my gun is because I was scared of a similar incident occurring to me like the Pit Bull attack. Once I realized the threat was over, I immediately reholstered and went about my business.

    3. I really do appreciate the info on what my wife should have done vs what she did. We are going to have that talk tonight, because it brings up some very good points that I had not thought of.

    4. I have never heard of the Tueller drill, but I will look it up, and if you care to post a synopsis here, I'd love to hear it.
    *EDIT* I knew about this, but didn't know what it was called. That is one reason I drew my pistol, because the dog was well within that limit of 21 ft */EDIT*
    5. As far as posting on here to get a reaction: Isn't that why any of us start threads, or do we post them and hope no one reads them.

    Thanks to everyone and let's keep the discussion rolling!
    Last edited by Esanders2008; 09-24-2012 at 08:34 PM.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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