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Thread: Ok, did this leo train with the nypd ?

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    Ok, did this leo train with the nypd ?


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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    this is why cops should not be allowed to disarm compliant non threatening person's from their firearms
    Last edited by oliverclotheshoff; 09-25-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    this is why cops should not be allowed to disarm compliant non threatening LAC's from their firearms
    On this specific case I'm going to disagree with you. Under the law that gun was not suppose to be in that area and the officer was within his duty to secure the weapon.

    But I'd like to know what kind of handgun it was. And why was the officer trying to engage a safety instead of removing the magazine, clearing the chamber, and locking back the slide (or opening the cylinder if it was a revolver)?

    And is that officer in any sort of trouble for having an accidental discharge?

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    But I'd like to know what kind of handgun it was. And why was the officer trying to engage a safety instead of removing the magazine, clearing the chamber, and locking back the slide (or opening the cylinder if it was a revolver)?

    And is that officer in any sort of trouble for having an accidental discharge?
    .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Airweight revolver

    The officer who accidentally discharged the flight attendant’s gun is on desk duty pending completion of an internal investigation, police said
    Source

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    On this specific case I'm going to disagree with you. Under the law that gun was not suppose to be in that area and the officer was within his duty to secure the weapon.

    But I'd like to know what kind of handgun it was. And why was the officer trying to engage a safety instead of removing the magazine, clearing the chamber, and locking back the slide (or opening the cylinder if it was a revolver)?

    And is that officer in any sort of trouble for having an accidental discharge?
    you are technically correct he does have the authority to disarm the person

    but he does have two tools he could have used instead, his common sense and discretion given he lacked common sense to have a NEGLIGENT discharge (no such thing as an accidental discharge IMO)
    but he still had his discretion which should have told him hey no threat to anyone or myself cite her for trespass and escort her out done deal everyone is on their own merry way K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    you are technically correct he does have the authority to disarm the person

    but he does have two tools he could have used instead, his common sense and discretion given he lacked common sense to have a NEGLIGENT discharge (no such thing as an accidental discharge IMO)
    but he still had his discretion which should have told him hey no threat to anyone or myself cite her for trespass and escort her out done deal everyone is on their own merry way K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid

    You are aware, I assume, that police officers are governed by their agencies written policies. I can tell you that in that situation where there was a violation of law I would have been required by my department to secure the weapon regardless of what I thought was the better thing to do.

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    Re: Ok, did this leo train with the nypd ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    You are aware, I assume, that police officers are governed by their agencies written policies. I can tell you that in that situation where there was a violation of law I would have been required by my department to secure the weapon regardless of what I thought was the better thing to do.
    Can you opt to secure the firearm after affording me the opportunity to unload and clear it?

    Not sure I'd want to handle my firearm at all during a LEO encounter, but I'd also rather not get shot because someone couldn't keep their booger finger off the bang switch while "securing" it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    Not sure I'd want to handle my firearm at all during a LEO encounter, but I'd also rather not get shot because someone couldn't keep their booger finger off the bang switch while "securing" it.
    That officer needs to get seriously thumped, legally and administratively. Police officers are trained in how to open the action on a revolver and semi-autos. What was this guys problem?


    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    Can you opt to secure the firearm after affording me the opportunity to unload and clear it?
    I'd like you to think about your post for a bit. Scenario: Police officer arrives at a scene where someone has a firearm where it's illegal to have one. Police officer allows violator (and that is, in fact, what she is) to handle weapon under the guise of "unloading it and making it safe". Even if all goes well, how do you think that will look to his superiors on his report? "A suspect had a firearm where it's illegal to have one and you let the suspect handle the firearm? Oh, that's okay [pats cop on the head] because even though it all turned out alright it could have been worse!"

    And if all does not go well, how toasted do you think this poor cop would be? Even people on these boards would be flaming him!

    Is anyone going to hold that woman in contempt? "I forgot where my gun was." I own 28 firearms and I know where every one of them is. And they aren't all in the same place, so it isn't easy. Isn't "I forgot where my gun was" the same B.S. people say when their 4 year old finds a pistol behind the couch and blows his head off? You "don't know where you put your gun"??? She was either lying or maybe too stupid to be armed.

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, did this leo train with the nypd ?

    My question wasn't really targeted at this scenario. It was more of a general question. I wasn't trying to make a point by asking. I really would like to know if it's left to the LEO's discretion.

    If I, personally, get stopped while carrying, would it be conducive to ask permission to clear and secure my own firearm before handing it over or is every cop going to be too paranoid about being shot? If the latter is true, why should their concern for their safety trump mine?

    For the sake of discussion, let's assume my interaction is a result of a routine traffic stop: failure to wear my seatbelt. Nothing criminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    But I'd like to know what kind of handgun it was. And why was the officer trying to engage a safety instead of removing the magazine, clearing the chamber, and locking back the slide (or opening the cylinder if it was a revolver)??
    Exactly where is the safety on a Smith and Wesson Model 37 Airweight revolver? Mine must be defective 'cause I can't find a safety on it anywhere. I guess ALL of my revolvers must be defective because NONE of them have a safety on them.

    Fast Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    Not sure I'd want to handle my firearm at all during a LEO encounter
    Shouldn't use a pen either .. they'll shoot ya ... "That'll teach him a lesson! Pointing a ball point pen at me!"

    In fact, just run away whenever you see a cop and yell "He's going to shoot me! He has those crazy eyes! Bananas! Bananas!"

    Keep the Faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Ed View Post
    Exactly where is the safety on a Smith and Wesson Model 37 Airweight revolver? Mine must be defective 'cause I can't find a safety on it anywhere. I guess ALL of my revolvers must be defective because NONE of them have a safety on them.

    Fast Ed

    I just checked all of mine, and I also can not find the safety.
    Might I add, no rounds left the hot end...
    I have no idea how one NDs a revolver, when all you were doing was unloading it...

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    Recommend Promotion !

    But really, who has not had an accidental discharge?

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites
    Is anyone going to hold that woman in contempt?
    "I forgot where my gun was."
    ... You "don't know where you put your gun"???
    The only time I haven't known exactly where mine were was when they weren't under my control.
    Yeah, she's an idiot too, but at least she wasn't threatening or potentially killing anyone.
    She did something that some words on paper say she shouldn't do.
    IIRC, that's more or less the difference between malum in se & malum prohibitum. (It's bad because it's bad vs. it's bad because we say it's bad.)
    I can't get too worked up over the latter, & the former is wrong whether or not some words on paper say it's wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth
    But really, who has not had an accidental discharge?
    TMI!

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    My question wasn't really targeted at this scenario. It was more of a general question. I wasn't trying to make a point by asking. I really would like to know if it's left to the LEO's discretion.

    If I, personally, get stopped while carrying, would it be conducive to ask permission to clear and secure my own firearm before handing it over or is every cop going to be too paranoid about being shot? If the latter is true, why should their concern for their safety trump mine?

    For the sake of discussion, let's assume my interaction is a result of a routine traffic stop: failure to wear my seatbelt. Nothing criminal.
    maybe this is why his safety trumps ours
    http://www.wxow.com/story/19647664/f...hief-convicted

    now this is not a bash on all LEO's just the select few rogue LEO's
    Last edited by oliverclotheshoff; 09-27-2012 at 02:25 PM.
    SCOTT

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    "When seconds count police are minutes away"

    "Dialing 911 only takes seconds but waiting for help may take the rest of your life"

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