Glock 20 SF

My first ever gun is a Smith and wesson SW9VE it's what I carry currently, I found an awesome Serpa Sportster holster for it and it fits like a glove. I recently discovered that Paramedics can get 100 off any Glocks from an authorized Glock Law enforecement dealer and this had made me want one. A co-worker told me he owned 2 10mm semi's a smith and wesson and a glock 20. I've been looking at a Glock 20 sf to carry and have fallen in love with them. Any body have any experiences with these guns. I don't care that it's considered overkill. I'm open carrying and want it to look mean and back up it's looks with it's bite. Any info would be appreciated. I was quoted 430 dollars on a new 20 sf from the Dealer with the discount.

I carry a 20sf also quite frequently, and I love the performance of the 10mm. With 180 grain Hornady XTP's, it will drive nails at 25 yards. My wife and I go hiking at Smoky Mountain National Forest a couple of times per year, and I find this to be a well-suited sidearm for black bears (carrying a long gun in Tennessee is illegal). I did find however, that the Glock polygonal rifling is not suited for ultra-heavy 230 grain bullets. It shoots about a 24" group at 15 yards, and the holes in the paper show clear evidence of bullet tumbling. I suggest a 6" Lone Wolf barrel if you intend on doing any hunting or carrying heavy rounds. And although 50 round boxes of 10mm are crazy expensive just about anywhere you go, Georgia Arms sells a 500 round bulk ammo can of 180 grain standard pressure loads for $205. Hope that helps.

I personally carry a grip reduced 20c. I suggest the c model, or a smith comp mod to the SF because a compensated G20 with full power ammo still has less recoil than a 1911 with GI spec ammo. This also has the advantage that if someone tried to grab the muzzle to disarm you, that firing the gun would injure their hand.

Light ammo, like 135 ish grain +P loads soaring along at ridiculous speeds can make really big holes I've found out with wet pack tests, and have the situational advantage or disadvantage of not penetrating as much. Heavier ammo penetrates further and holds together a bit better, but makes smaller holes.

One problem that holds true for all full power 10mm JHP ammo that I've ever seen reviews of being tested is that it doesn't tend to retain its bullet weight. 10mm is not a round which is used by the masses, and consequently most 10mm JHP rounds are made with bullets engineered for the slower 40 S&W. Thus, the higher velocity causes the 40 JHPs to fall apart instead of maintain their mushroomed formation as intended. Some consider this a serious problem, but I don't, because the bottom line is that it's going to badly screw up anything it hits, and with considerably more power than a standard pressure .45.

The only way you can get more power out of a comparable package is by getting a double wide .45 and adapting it to shoot 45 super or 460 Rowland. The 10mm offers considerably less recoil than that, more power than the .45, and a better capacity than a 45 caliber can offer. So, until something better comes along, I consider it the perfect round for those who have a hand large enough to accommodate it.

Michigander said:

... a compensated G20 with full power ammo ...

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Just remember that a compensated sidearm will have significantly greater muzzle blast and noise, relative to the shooter. This can be extremely detrimental in a gunfight, when it is often dark, you will almost certainly have no hearing protection, and will be even more greatly compounded if indoors. I carried a compensated .357 Magnum for a while. The one time I had to shoot it without hearing protection made me a believer. I wonder if I'd have ever regained my hearing if I hadn't been outdoors at the time. It took three days as it was. It was probably the one time in my life that caused most of the hearing damage I have today.

I refuse to carry compensated sidearms for defensive purposes. Leave them on the game range where they belong.

While you bring up a valid point, remember that enclosed spaces make noise much worse whether or not it's compensated because the sound waves will bounce right back at you no matter what. I work on cars all day, 6 days a week, and between that and liking guns, hearing damage is something I'm all too familiar with.

If you have to shoot indoors, with no ear protection, you'd be hurting even with just a 9mm. A considerably louder 10mm, with or without the compensator, and yes, you'll very likely loose some hearing for the rest of your life. I already have tinnitus. It's not something anyone with any sense wants. But the issue at hand here, at least the issue I am discussing, is staying alive if attacked by a violent felon. Aggravating ringing in your ears, partial deafness, blown out ear drums and other problems are annoying, but the important thing is to get to that point alive, by laying down the maximum amount of firepower you can with the best possible accuracy.

One nice thing about compensated glocks is that they can be de-compensated with a simple barrel swap to fit carrier preferences.

One issue I don't agree with being very serious is muzzle flash. I've not found this to be a very serious issue when I've done night shooting, nor have friends of mine who own compensated glocks. Properly selected powder for carry ammo should have low flash anyway. I do believe it goes without saying that again, this comes down to preference, and luckily is easily remedied either way.

Overkill?

I became the proud owner of a brand new Glock 20SF just last month, and I have done a lot of research on the ballistics. If you're using a full power 135gr load, the bullet will do all it's damage in the space of 8" unless you're shooting ball ammo. If it leaves the back of the assailant, there won't be enough energy left for it to pass through a jacket. Now, if you're using controlled expansion 180 gr hp rounds, then you have to really consider what you expect to encounter, and what kind of backstop there will be in a grocery store parking lot. If you haven't discovered the full power factory loads yet, there are three good companies I know of. Buffalo Bore is the most expensive, Doubletap Ammo is less expensive but a great performer, and Underwood Ammo makes a nice full power load and they price it NICE! I've had best accuracy with the Doubletap, so I keep 180gr for the woods. Underwood is awesome for defensive loads and full power practice ammo. I would suggest using full power to practice, so you are familiar with it in a bad situation. For home defense I like the 165gr Doubletap, or the 155gr Underwood. You won't hit your neighbor after an assailant and a few pieces of sheet rock. If you plan to open carry, then I would suggest the 135gr Doubletap, so there is a lot less concern with over penetration. I hope this post is helpful. I have researched my gun for the past year, and finally got it! 3 boxes of ammo down and counting!

Nightmarehour said:

My first ever gun is a Smith and wesson SW9VE it's what I carry currently, I found an awesome Serpa Sportster holster for it and it fits like a glove. I recently discovered that Paramedics can get 100 off any Glocks from an authorized Glock Law enforecement dealer and this had made me want one. A co-worker told me he owned 2 10mm semi's a smith and wesson and a glock 20. I've been looking at a Glock 20 sf to carry and have fallen in love with them. Any body have any experiences with these guns. I don't care that it's considered overkill. I'm open carrying and want it to look mean and back up it's looks with it's bite. Any info would be appreciated. I was quoted 430 dollars on a new 20 sf from the Dealer with the discount.

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Yes, Guard your hearing!

You are so right about your hearing! I have permanent ringing (tinnitus) in my left ear, and the military says it's from shooting. Now, as for using a compensator on a defensive pistol, I'm not so sure it's a good idea. While it may aide in getting back on target, the muzzle flash of a 10mm in low light is like watching someone strike an arc with a welder with your welding hood up. You would likely not be able to see your target for a follow up, negating the reason you want to keep the muzzle down in the first place. I think the compensator would be better suited to hunting. I haven't gotten into reloading, yet, and the powder might very well alleviate the issue. All the factory loads I've shot do have a nice flash, though!

Michigander said:

While you bring up a valid point, remember that enclosed spaces make noise much worse whether or not it's compensated because the sound waves will bounce right back at you no matter what. I work on cars all day, 6 days a week, and between that and liking guns, hearing damage is something I'm all too familiar with.

If you have to shoot indoors, with no ear protection, you'd be hurting even with just a 9mm. A considerably louder 10mm, with or without the compensator, and yes, you'll very likely loose some hearing for the rest of your life. I already have tinnitus. It's not something anyone with any sense wants. But the issue at hand here, at least the issue I am discussing, is staying alive if attacked by a violent felon. Aggravating ringing in your ears, partial deafness, blown out ear drums and other problems are annoying, but the important thing is to get to that point alive, by laying down the maximum amount of firepower you can with the best possible accuracy.

One nice thing about compensated glocks is that they can be de-compensated with a simple barrel swap to fit carrier preferences.

One issue I don't agree with being very serious is muzzle flash. I've not found this to be a very serious issue when I've done night shooting, nor have friends of mine who own compensated glocks. Properly selected powder for carry ammo should have low flash anyway. I do believe it goes without saying that again, this comes down to preference, and luckily is easily remedied either way.

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This also has the advantage that if someone tried to grab the muzzle to disarm you, that firing the gun would injure their hand.

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Isn't that what the bullet is for??????


Being the owner of a few G20's comp'd and none comp'd (not SF) I find the comp not worth it....
My first G20 was a C model only becasue I got a smoking deal on the C model vs the non C model and knew I was going to replace the barrel anyway.. I like fully supported chambers which Glocks don't have.

Choosing ammo that is low flash is prudent whether you're firing a comp gun or not.... Test any ammo you are considering for defensive purposes!!!!
(Try firing Winchester.357mag 110gr JHP's at low light.... yikes)
The extra noise from the comp can be an issue as well as the upward blast when firing from the retention postion.

I like DT 165gr load for SD and the 200gr Hardcast load for off the beaten path trips.

I have a GEN 3 non SF model and it is by far my favorite open carry and woods gun. I usually carry 155gr. underwood gold dot around town and 180 gr. gold dots on long trips, and there 220 gr. hardcast @ 1200 fps will take care of anything I may encounter in the woods in the southeastern united states. It is an expensive cartridge but the fun is well worth it. Just make sure to go with a good steel guiderod and heavier springs if your gonna shoot full power.

I also called kevin at underwood ammo because the 220 loads wouldnt chamber in my lone wolf barrel. They just ended up needing more crimp and work fine now. However we somehow got up on the topic of bears and these rounds in woods scenarios, He apparently had a gentleman doing testing using it on black bears and found it plenty for stopping one with the right load. Now browns that is a whole different story but for what I may encounter the 10mm gets it done and there is no better platform for it than the glock.

I'm adding to the consensus that the Glock 20 is a great open carry and woods pistol, provided you can deal with a little extra weight and recoil. The recoil is not even that much more, because the firearm's mass helps mitigate it. I'm a fan of Glock's low bore axis minimizing muzzle flip with this pistol, and I've had great reliability and durability with no problems in the first several thousand rounds.

Fifteen rounds of 10mm will take care of most anything which can be taken care of with a pistol. For fun I installed +5 Arredondo extensions onto a couple mags, which work flawlessly, and bring the capacity up to 20 rounds/mag (!) without looking severely out-of-place on the pistol.

I installed an aftermarket KKM barrel so that the firearm can stabilize Buffalo Bore's 220 gr. Hard Cast woods load.

For EDC I use Winchester 175 gr. Silvertips, for the reasons discussed in the "High Quality for Your Caliber" episode #23 of ProArms Podcast; they have been reliable and accurate in my testing. They are near "full-power" loads, instead of down-loaded with lower muzzle energy as many other 10mm manufacturers' loads are.

Some night sights and a Mitch Rosen Premier Full Detail holster, and I'm GTG. The blocky generic Glock looks utilitarian in the gorgeous holster, but it's a great holster (easy on/off and securely holds the pistol) and makes a great combination.

Nightmarehour said:

My first ever gun is a Smith and wesson SW9VE it's what I carry currently, I found an awesome Serpa Sportster holster for it and it fits like a glove. I recently discovered that Paramedics can get 100 off any Glocks from an authorized Glock Law enforecement dealer and this had made me want one. A co-worker told me he owned 2 10mm semi's a smith and wesson and a glock 20. I've been looking at a Glock 20 sf to carry and have fallen in love with them. Any body have any experiences with these guns. I don't care that it's considered overkill. I'm open carrying and want it to look mean and back up it's looks with it's bite. Any info would be appreciated. I was quoted 430 dollars on a new 20 sf from the Dealer with the discount.

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This is an excellent pistol, but if you haven't already purchased, then I would suggest purchasing a Gen4 version. The Gen4 will give you the reduced grip length with awesome texturing. I also enjoy the new guide rod and spring system. I have a third generation Glock 20 and I just recently purchased the Gen4 Glock 21 and I believe it is a much better design.

As for power, then you can definately purchase loads that exceed what is was originally designed to do (factory loads are too weak; you might as well have a .40S&W if you are going to shoot factory 10mm loads). Underwood Ammunition produces some excellent loads in ALL calibers, but in 10mm especially. They have a 180 grain GoldDot at 1,325 fps from the Glock 20 and a 135 grain Nosler at 1,600 fps from the same gun! The 135 grain load has nearly 800 fpe! The 135 grain doesn't penetrate enough for me, but the 180 grain sure does.

You can get an idea of how well the 180 grain load does by watching the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_n_miLfbY