Mayors Send Opposition Letter HB5225

stainless1911 · Sep 25, 2012

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/09/25/bing-godbee-eight-local-mayors-oppose-new-gun-bill/

What about that oath we keep hearing about?

The letter : http://mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/michiganletter_9_24_12.pdf

scot623 · Sep 26, 2012

8 A$$holes. They say they are against illegal guns. This bill has nothing to do with illegal guns. Morons.

davidmcbeth · Sep 26, 2012

Its outrageous that they want you to go through a safety course ... the state is not providing it free. I don't think these provisions are constitutional at all.

stainless1911 · Sep 26, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
Its outrageous that they want you to go through a safety course ... the state is not providing it free. I don't think these provisions are constitutional at all.

It's a 10 question quiz. BTW, if you answer all 10 questions "Yes", you pass.

smellslikemichigan · Sep 26, 2012

these two are rocket scientists:

Michigan State Police Director Col. Kriste Kibbey Etue agreed, saying, “Without this safeguard, there is no way to prevent convicted felons, the mentally incapacitated and other dangerous individuals from purchasing handguns in our state. This legislation also eliminates the state’s pistol registry, which is a critical crime solving tool that was utilized more than 21,000 times by law enforcement last year.”
Detroit Mayor Dave Bing said it could endanger law enforcement, adding, “During my administration, four Detroit police officers were shot by perpetrators using a shotgun that was legally sold without a background check.”

HKcarrier · Sep 26, 2012

smellslikemichigan said:
these two are rocket scientists:

Michigan State Police Director Col. Kriste Kibbey Etue agreed, saying, “Without this safeguard, there is no way to prevent convicted felons, the mentally incapacitated and other dangerous individuals from purchasing handguns in our state. This legislation also eliminates the state’s pistol registry, which is a critical crime solving tool that was utilized more than 21,000 times by law enforcement last year.”
Detroit Mayor Dave Bing said it could endanger law enforcement, adding, “During my administration, four Detroit police officers were shot by perpetrators using a shotgun that was legally sold without a background check.”

Utilized 21,000 times.... sure... but how many crimes did it solve? It sure as hell didn't solve 21k crimes.

dougwg · Sep 26, 2012

detroit_fan · Sep 26, 2012

So let's see

The people who are not supporting this bill are- a bunch of anti-2A mayors, the anti-2A state police, bloombergs anti-2A group, the anti-2A brady group, and.... Michigan Open Carry inc.

Makes you think, doesn't it.....

DanM · Sep 26, 2012

detroit_fan said:
The people who are not supporting this bill are- a bunch of anti-2A mayors, the anti-2A state police, bloombergs anti-2A group, the anti-2A brady group, and.... Michigan Open Carry inc.

Makes you think, doesn't it.....

Pro-gun and anti-gun organizations both opposing (or both supporting) a gun-related bill is not without precedent. It's just been for entirely different reasons, consistent with their missions and views.

We see the anti-gunners' reasons in the letter linked in this thread. Can you recap what you know of MOC's reasons?

detroit_fan · Sep 26, 2012

DanM said:
Pro-gun and anti-gun organizations both opposing (or both supporting) a gun-related bill is not without precedent. It's just been for entirely different reasons, consistent with their missions and views.

We see the anti-gunners' reasons in the letter linked in this thread. Can you recap what you know of MOC's reasons?

Because apparently the leadership of MOC believes that every MI citizen without a CPL will be charged under the GFSZA. But you know, when I look at gun laws across the country, I see MANY states with no PP, and can't seem to find anyone getting arrested and charged with it. If what MOC says is true, why isn't every person in KY, VA, OH, AZ, MT, ID, WY, NV, NM, NC, VT, NH, ect... who do not have a CPL getting arrested and prosecuted?

Do you hear any Gun Rights groups in those states calling for PP to stop GFSZA arrests, cause I don't.

MOC can state whatever reasons they want, not supporting registration and purchase permit repeal is supporting gun control. These laws only serve to make it harder for citizens to be legally armed, and that is never acceptable imo.

WilDChilD · Sep 26, 2012

detroit_fan said:
Because apparently the leadership of MOC believes that every MI citizen without a CPL will be charged under the GFSZA. But you know, when I look at gun laws across the country, I see MANY states with no PP, and can't seem to find anyone getting arrested and charged with it. If what MOC says is true, why isn't every person in KY, VA, OH, AZ, MT, ID, WY, NV, NM, NC, VT, NH, ect... who do not have a CPL getting arrested and prosecuted?

Do you hear any Gun Rights groups in those states calling for PP to stop GFSZA arrests, cause I don't.

MOC can state whatever reasons they want, not supporting registration and purchase permit repeal is supporting gun control. These laws only serve to make it harder for citizens to be legally armed, and that is never acceptable imo.

http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,2166.0.html

read reply #4. Not all of the MOC board feels that way.

detroit_fan · Sep 26, 2012

WilDChilD said:
http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,2166.0.html

read reply #4. Not all of the MOC board feels that way.

Thanks, that is good to know. Maybe there is hope yet!

SpringerXDacp · Sep 26, 2012

“This bill dismantles Michigan’s carefully crafted background check system and eliminates a vital law enforcement tool,” said Detroit Police Chief Ralph Godbee in a press release. “Background checks are a critical component in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and protecting our police officers and our communities. Unfortunately, this dangerous bill would put more of our brave men and women in harm’s way.”

*Sigh*

Must be the reason why, in the past, I've noticed all the officers lying on the shoulder of the road and in the median while traveling through Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Etc.

WilDChilD · Sep 26, 2012

detroit_fan said:
Thanks, that is good to know. Maybe there is hope yet!

Now I dont know the best way to fight them on this.
1. Join MOC and fight from the inside?
2. Tell them about how myself and others arent joining because our values dont line up?

I have really wanted to join and take a roll in MOC but dont know if now is the right time.

TheQ · Sep 26, 2012

Here's a good reason too:

Who lobbies for Michigan Open Carry?

I'm personally more energized and care more about PFZs. The other board member who is behind registration repeal (not me) is free to put his energy into registration repeal if he gets the rest of the board to go along with it.

"John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."
- Andrew Jackson

I won't make this another OpenCarry.org thread about Michigan Open Carry's neutrality on HB 5225. Let me ask those who would complain about our inaction on 5225: when's the last time you visited a lawmaker's office in Lansing in person to support any gun bill?

If you're a dues paying member, I welcome you to open a discussion about it in the member feedback area or member lounge on Michigan Open Carry's forum -- you're more likely to have a discussion with the board members on that venue.

I'd also point to the fact that there are done here that ardently oppose registration repeal -- for valid reasons. No matter which side is taken, someone will be upset. The answer for us has been to take no side and make no one happy or upset.

I've given my thoughts about where I will discuss this matter further. I will see you there if you'd like to have the discussion further.

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with this...

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1348681425.987922.jpg

Yance · Sep 26, 2012

As Vice President of Michigan Open Carry let me make this clear, MOC is not supporting, nor is it opposing, HB 5225. MOC's official stance on the bill is nuetral, for the 50th time... if it passes

, if it doesnt then

As far as the GFSZA is concerned, yes there have been no documented cases of people being charged on this alone, however the law is there and as long as the law is there so is the possibility of being brought up on charges for violating it. MOC's leadership did not feel comfortable openly supporting a bill that could potentially hang people up because then our members and people of Michigan might look at us as the reason they are now facing federal weapons charges.

As an organization its a lot different when deciding to support, oppose, or stay neutral on a bill. We cant just pick and choose the bills we as individuals like, we have the added responsibility of making sure that bills that become law are in the best interest of our membership as well as the people of this state.

TheQ · Sep 26, 2012

“This bill dismantles Michigan’s carefully crafted background check system and eliminates a vital law enforcement tool,” said Detroit Police Chief Ralph Godbee in a press release. “Background checks are a critical component in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and protecting our police officers and our communities. Unfortunately, this dangerous bill would put more of our brave men and women in harm’s way.”

lolz. The black police chief neglects to mention registration was put in place by the KKK to prevent black ppl from owning handguns.

Yance · Sep 26, 2012

Its a shame criminals dont get purchase permits and register their handguns, otherwise the law might actually work.

WilDChilD · Sep 26, 2012

Yance said:
Its a shame criminals dont get purchase permits and register their handguns, otherwise the law might actually work.

Bad form

WilDChilD · Sep 26, 2012

TheQ said:
Here's a good reason too:

Who lobbies for Michigan Open Carry?

I'm personally more energized and care more about PFZs. The other board member who is behind registration repeal (not me) is free to put his energy into registration repeal if he gets the rest of the board to go along with it.

"John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."
- Andrew Jackson

I won't make this another OpenCarry.org thread about Michigan Open Carry's neutrality on HB 5225. Let me ask those who would complain about our inaction on 5225: when's the last time you visited a lawmaker's office in Lansing in person to support any gun bill?

If you're a dues paying member, I welcome you to open a discussion about it in the member feedback area or member lounge on Michigan Open Carry's forum -- you're more likely to have a discussion with the board members on that venue.

I'd also point to the fact that there are done here that ardently oppose registration repeal -- for valid reasons. No matter which side is taken, someone will be upset. The answer for us has been to take no side and make no one happy or upset.

I've given my thoughts about where I will discuss this matter further. I will see you there if you'd like to have the discussion further.

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with this...View attachment 9289

I am not trying to start a inhouse gun owners fight. And I can see why people want registration, (I do think they are misguided) but we need to fall into line with the rest of the free country.

I can also see how you (The Q)cant be everywhere to fight every fight but saying "WE SUPPORT HB5225" isnt going to take alot of time. And if all the org. in MI did maybe the governor wouldnt be so ready to just appease the firearms community so his buddies get elected (or reelected) in Nov.

With all that said I am taking my fight to the inside, see you in the members area tonight.

Mayors Send Opposition Letter HB5225

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