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Thread: Newport News detective charged in case of road rage

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Newport News detective charged in case of road rage

    Apparently, hand gestures were (also) involved. Perhaps we should refer this guy to User?

    "On Monday, a Newport News police detective was charged in a case of road rage that a driver reported earlier in September, according to a police news release.


    Police served Michael D. Poole, 58, with criminal summonses for two misdemeanor counts of brandishing a firearm, according to a Newport News police news release."

    http://www.dailypress.com/news/break..._story_display

    The media are all over this.

    http://www.wavy.com/

    http://www.wvec.com/my-city/nnews/De...171199741.html

    http://wtkr.com/2012/09/25/newport-n...rage-incident/
    Last edited by 2a4all; 09-25-2012 at 11:57 PM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Only the last two links lead to this story.

    It is good that the incident is being looked into. We should all be equal under the eyes of the law.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Only the last two links lead to this story.

    It is good that the incident is being looked into. We should all be equal under the eyes of the law.
    All the links worked for me. Second one (WAVY) had the story moved down into a box with other news not of the moment. but not hard to find.

    For some reason I want to follow this just to find out if Poole actually put his hand on, let alone drew, his handgun.

    stay safe.
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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Nothing like a little brandishing by a public official... oh wait, they only displayed the weapon, so not brandishing
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    Nothing like a little brandishing by a public official... oh wait, they only displayed the weapon, so not brandishing
    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-282
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    All the links worked for me. Second one (WAVY) had the story moved down into a box with other news not of the moment. but not hard to find.

    For some reason I want to follow this just to find out if Poole actually put his hand on, let alone drew, his handgun.

    stay safe.
    The case is docketed for 10/1/2012 in NN General District Court (Case # GC12009350-00).
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I'm with Skidmark. I'd like to know exactly how he brandished.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If he brandished, it was likely brandished using one of his hands.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If he brandished, it was likely brandished using one of his hands.
    Or pulled his jacket back or had no jacket and turned his strong side to him or just rested his hand on it ...etc.

    Virginia's brandishing law is extremely vague, many people have been charged who didn't even have a gun and more still, for just wearing one.

    It's the most abused firearm law we have.

    There is a part of that story that doesn't sound right "Pop a cap in me"....

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Or pulled his jacket back or had no jacket and turned his strong side to him or just rested his hand on it ...etc.

    Virginia's brandishing law is extremely vague, many people have been charged who didn't even have a gun and more still, for just wearing one.

    It's the most abused firearm law we have.

    There is a part of that story that doesn't sound right "Pop a cap in me"....
    As an esteemed member here has alluded, "The definition of brandishing is brandishing."

    The quote "Pop a cap in me" sounds more like a slang remark for a member of a certain social economic group that generally does not include detectives with years of service. jus' sayin'
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Only the last two links lead to this story.

    It is good that the incident is being looked into. We should all be equal under the eyes of the law.
    And the Det. works in the "Intelligence" section. What a hoot!

    Ever been with a cop whose driving and then he gets a ticket from another cop .... talk about road rage!

    Want to know what brandishing is ? See link below:

    http://www.jud.ct.gov/ji/criminal/part8/8.2-18.htm

    (at least in my state but it sounds like it may be universal - this one is for a fake gun but the principle is the same)
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-26-2012 at 12:39 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Want to know what brandishing is ? See link below:
    ....
    Ah, yes. Someone from somewhere else who does not bother to look up the law in the place where the discussed action took place.

    About as helpful as <insert favorite appropriate phrase>.

    As others have noted, it is all in the details.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-282
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    --snip--

    Want to know what brandishing is ? See link below:

    http://www.jud.ct.gov/ji/criminal/part8/8.2-18.htm

    (at least in my state but it sounds like it may be universal - this one is for a fake gun but the principle is the same)
    There is no "universal."

    The brief quote above from the Code of Virginia was previously provided together with a link.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    It appears these charges were brought following a police investigation.

    WAVY.com wanted to know why it took three weeks for police to release information about this case. Thurston said, "It was the criminal investigation that took awhile. The police needed to get everything together including the victim's statements."

    It appears the charges were filed following a police investigation, which might indicate some validity to the claims.

    "According to the victim, Poole displayed a handgun before driving away. Thurston says the handgun was not issued by the police department."

    How would a citizen know a plain clothes detective in an unmarked vehicle had a firearm unless they saw it? The investigation, it seems, revealed the officer possessed an unauthorized weapon.

    I believe I may of done the same exact thing if someone threatened me in this manner....followed at a safe enough distance to get a vehicle description and tag # and call it in.

    It appears these charges may have more basis than two eye witnesses/victims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    The investigation, it seems, revealed the officer possessed an unauthorized weapon.
    .
    Odd, in my examination of a police chief under oath he stated that cops can use non-city issued guns - there was no policy preventing it.

    Some cities may require a gun to be actually "authorized" for use by the city.

    Different towns, different policies.

    Very surprised anything actually came out of this .. if found guilty, he'll lose his gun rights ? Bummer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is no "universal."

    The brief quote above from the Code of Virginia was previously provided together with a link.
    Kudos ... missed that line of the thread. Seems to be the same though.

    I like the jury instructions - more clear than just a statue IMO .. less legalese

    I'm gonna burn some santa claus coal soon ... so I liked that pic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    The investigation, it seems, revealed the officer possessed an unauthorized weapon.
    I don't see how if he was off duty and not in uniform it could be "unauthorized" in VA. He didn't check his 2A rights at the door when he became a LEO and § 15.1-29.15 would still apply.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Odd, in my examination of a police chief under oath he stated that cops can use non-city issued guns - there was no policy preventing it.

    Some cities may require a gun to be actually "authorized" for use by the city.

    Different towns, different policies.

    Very surprised anything actually came out of this .. if found guilty, he'll lose his gun rights ? Bummer.
    It's a misdemeanor. He won't lose his gun rights but if he's guilty he should and may lose his jobs.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jegoodin View Post
    I don't see how if he was off duty and not in uniform it could be "unauthorized" in VA. He didn't check his 2A rights at the door when he became a LEO and § 15.1-29.15 would still apply.
    The account given by WAVY-TV reports that Det Poole was actually "On the clock".

    I haven't seen anything that indicates that he identified himself as a LEO to the individuals he confronted.

    Following an armed individual who has threatened you is an extremely risky endeavor. These two guys should be commended.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Or pulled his jacket back or had no jacket and turned his strong side to him or just rested his hand on it ...etc.

    Virginia's brandishing law is extremely vague, many people have been charged who didn't even have a gun and more still, for just wearing one.

    It's the most abused firearm law we have.

    There is a part of that story that doesn't sound right "Pop a cap in me"....
    Norfolk PD undercover Officer Seneca Darden was shot and killed by another Officer, in part because he was holding his sidearm "gangster style" sideways. Just because you're a cop doesn't mean you "talk like a cop" whatever that means. When you work the streets with thugs, you talk like a thug.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    The account given by WAVY-TV reports that Det Poole was actually "On the clock".

    I haven't seen anything that indicates that he identified himself as a LEO to the individuals he confronted.

    Following an armed individual who has threatened you is an extremely risky endeavor. These two guys should be commended.
    That would be dirty Poole.

    Sorry -- couldn't resist. ...

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jegoodin View Post
    I don't see how if he was off duty and not in uniform it could be "unauthorized" in VA. He didn't check his 2A rights at the door when he became a LEO and § 15.1-29.15 would still apply.
    Investigators tell WAVY.com the 27-year police veteran was driving an unmarked vehicle during the incident and he was not in uniform, but he was on duty.

    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/crime/d...-rage-incident
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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    unauthorized
    How do you get not issued to = unauthorized????
    While there are dept's that require officers/deputies to carry Gun A while on duty others allow officers/deputies to carry any handgun from a list of approved makes and models.


    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Just because you're a cop doesn't mean you "talk like a cop" whatever that means. When you work the streets with thugs, you talk like a thug.
    Yep... Had a LVMPD officer once tell me she was going to kick my ****** ass.....(maybe that's normal cop talk)
    She is no longer with LVMPD and I didn't get my ass kicked either.


    If the allegations are true this guy should have the title of ex police officer with no pension.
    Last edited by Marco; 09-26-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    The account given by WAVY-TV reports that Det Poole was actually "On the clock".
    Roger, I stand corrected.

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