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Thread: PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

    Let's assume you can only get one, what one do you pick? Discuss…

    Keep in mind, there are others that will believe open carry in a pistol free zone is "absurd". Also keep in mind that these others are judges.

    On the reverse, keep in mind some municipalities make it difficult to get a purchase permit by adding illegal requirements and/or practices.
    Last edited by TheQ; 09-26-2012 at 01:49 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Re: PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

    Pistol free zones.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Get rid of registration, If we have to register, it's a privilege to own, not a right. I'd like to have the right to own a handgun
    Plus, getting rid of registration saves the state money, in addition to those who buy a handgun.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    I guess I need to brush up again on the benefits of registration repeal... I'm unsure how they will keep guns away from felons and crazies without it. Is there still going to be a required background check and such?


    Anyways, I'll be selfish and want PFZs gone first. :P
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    Hmmm, the right to keep, or the right to bear? Choices choices.

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    Get rid of PFZ, or should I say "Criminal Empowerment Zones". The mere thought of having to enter an area without my sidearm makes me shudder. As much of a pain as registration is (Not saying getting rid of that would be great) I would rather fill out paperwork from time to time as opposed to being mugged/robbed/killed because I couldn't defend myself or my wife while going to see a movie or having dinner at a local bar. Ever visit anyone at St. Johns hospital after 11PM? You need an escort to the parking garage some evenings.

    Not sure what year guns and/or gun parts were banned on airplanes, but I remember bringing parts (Magazines, barrel, recoil spring and lower slide) in my carry on and the slide and ammo went into my checked bags which were locked and secured. Never had a problem before. Now my 80 mother can't bring a knitting needle onboard

    PFZs do nothing but ensure that honest citizens have no way of protecting themselves while they are in those areas.

    just my $.02

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    Since registration leads to confiscation, but I can choose to avoid PFZ's, it would be better overall to get rid of registration.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Since registration leads to confiscation, but I can choose to avoid PFZ's, it would be better overall to get rid of registration.
    Don't know what you speak of. I lost all my guns last year on a fishing trip.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Since registration leads to confiscation, but I can choose to avoid PFZ's, it would be better overall to get rid of registration.
    Confiscation can only be accomplished by prying out of cold dead hands.

    I suppose I could choose not to visit a sick and dying relative in the hospital but there is really no alternative. I could also choose not to send the kids to school but that opens up a whole other can of worms. Sometimes PFZs are unavoidable.
    "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post
    Confiscation can only be accomplished by prying out of cold dead hands.

    I suppose I could choose not to visit a sick and dying relative in the hospital but there is really no alternative. I could also choose not to send the kids to school but that opens up a whole other can of worms. Sometimes PFZs are unavoidable.
    I agree with the bolded. However, Im not just talking about the United States, although confiscations have also happened here. As far as schools go, you can still carry there, as long as you have a CPL from this or another state and are a resident here. Hospitals are hit or miss.

    Most who speak of "cold dead hands" won't back it up when push comes to shove. The .gov know this all too well, which is why they do what they do.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 09-26-2012 at 12:01 PM.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    What kind of BS question is this? First off, why would we only need to choose 1. Second, why do you intentionally lead people into answering the way you want?
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    PFZ repeal only if it is "complete"...ie no further training needed;no waiting until a renewal; applies to all CPL holders; etc. Otherwise registration repeal. I think both could successfully be challenged as unconstitutional and if anyone is actually charged with either, I would suggest that they fight the charges all the way to SCOTUS if needed.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    If I can only choose one, I'd choose to see the PFZs disappear first.
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    Looking at it this way....

    Most, and at times all, the establishments listed in 28.425o are private property. Even with a repeal, the owner(s) can still prohibit weapons/firearms...no sign required in Michigan. Repeal of registration on the other hand, we'll lose a couple of benefits (most likely) such as the CC (on foot and in car) of Mi Pistols, grandfathered in before the first of the year and the ability, for CPL holders, to carry/possess another's legally owned pistol.

    My choice would be, as DrTodd stated:

    DrTodd
    PFZ repeal only if it is "complete"...ie no further training needed;no waiting until a renewal; applies to all CPL holders; etc.

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    What kind of BS question is this? First off, why would we only need to choose 1. Second, why do you intentionally lead people into answering the way you want?
    Political reality I'm hearing is because of the Governor, you may only get one (if we're lucky). So, choose.

    In the OP, I stated my own opinion and why I choose one.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Political reality I'm hearing is because of the Governor, you may only get one (if we're lucky). So, choose.

    In the OP, I stated my own opinion and why I choose one.
    But you asked a question, then led people to answer the way you wanted because MOC is supporting 1 bill and not the other. How about adding to the OP - "keep in mind some people can not even buy a pistol because they owe parking tickets". or "some people have to take 2 days off work just to apply for a PP and then to go pick it up after an illegal waiting period".

    I just can't imagine MLK saying "ok guys, we can either get equal voting rights or end school segregation, pick 1".

    the good citizens of MI don't deserve to be forced to choose only 1 of our rights to gain back, we deserve them all.

    So the other day at the republican diner you said you were being told that snyder was blocking both bills, are you now being told he is willing to let 1 go through?
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 09-26-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    But you asked a question, then led people to answer the way you wanted because MOC is supporting 1 bill and not the other. How about adding to the OP - "keep in mind some people can not even buy a pistol because they owe parking tickets". or "some people have to take 2 days off work just to apply for a PP and then to go pick it up after an illegal waiting period".
    As you wish, OP updated.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post

    So the other day at the republican diner you said you were being told that snyder was blocking both bills, are you now being told he is willing to let 1 go through?
    Scuttlebutt is he isn't a fan of registration repeal because it would enable private party sales of pistols w/o a background check. Scuttlebutt goes on to say he may let SB 59 go through as a pacifier to gun owners.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  19. #19
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    As you wish, OP updated.
    better, thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Scuttlebutt is he isn't a fan of registration repeal because it would enable private party sales of pistols w/o a background check. Scuttlebutt goes on to say he may let SB 59 go through as a pacifier to gun owners.
    thanks for updating that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Scuttlebutt is he isn't a fan of registration repeal because it would enable private party sales of pistols w/o a background check. Scuttlebutt goes on to say he may let SB 59 go through as a pacifier to gun owners.
    Good, registration is a pain at times. However it does not affect me on a day to day basis like PFZ's do. So that sounds good to me.
    Last edited by Zamis; 09-26-2012 at 03:21 PM.

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    I guess making a decision would have to be based on what effects you more.

    Everyone has to have a purchase permit/ RI 60 and register their pistols under the current law, not everyone has to deal with PFZs however. On one hand you have a bill (SB-59) which would effect ONLY those with CPLs, roughly 339,016 (from the MSP website) people. Whereas PP and registration repeal (HB 5225) would effect any law abiding person in Michigan that wishes to purchase a pistol which could be nearly 7 million people.

    In that regard not everyone buys a firearm every day or every month even whereas some people are effected by PFZs everyday either by choice or because of their jobs, in having to pick between the two theres going to be a bit of a bias depending on how the situation effects you.

    Looking at a comparison of the number of people either of these could possibly effect it would seem as though getting rid of PP and registration would be the more beneficial because that would effect EVERY law abiding person who buys a firearm whereas PFZ repeal only effects a handful and only some of the time, but it would allow those with CPLs to carry in areas where having a firearm might be the most necessary.

    Just something for you all to think about when considering the question in the OP.
    Last edited by Yance; 09-26-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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    Re: PFZ repeal or Registration Repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    I guess making a decision would have to be based on what effects you more.

    Everyone has to have a purchase permit/ RI 60 and register their pistols under the current law, not everyone has to deal with PFZs however. On one hand you have a bill (SB-59) which would effect ONLY those with CPLs, roughly 339,016 (from the MSP website) people. Whereas PP and registration repeal (HB 5225) would effect any law abiding person in Michigan that wishes to purchase a pistol which could be nearly 7 million people.

    In that regard not everyone buys a firearm every day or every month even whereas some people are effected by PFZs everyday either by choice or because of their jobs, in having to pick between the two theres going to be a bit of a bias depending on how the situation effects you.

    Looking at a comparison of the number of people either of these could possibly effect it would seem as though getting rid of PP and registration would be the more beneficial because that would effect EVERY law abiding person who buys a firearm whereas PFZ repeal only effects a handful and only some of the time, but it would allow those with CPLs to carry in areas where having a firearm might be the most necessary.

    Just something for you all to think about when considering the question in the OP.
    How many non CPL people buy their only gun every year?
    Would it be safe to say 1/3 of CPL holders have kids, how many go to the movies or sport events?
    Last edited by Super Trucker; 09-26-2012 at 08:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    PFZ repeal only if it is "complete"...ie no further training needed;no waiting until a renewal; applies to all CPL holders; etc. Otherwise registration repeal. I think both could successfully be challenged as unconstitutional and if anyone is actually charged with either, I would suggest that they fight the charges all the way to SCOTUS if needed.

    Should Go to everyone, not just CPL holders.

  24. #24
    Regular Member ken243's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    ... On one hand you have a bill (SB-59) which would effect ONLY those with CPLs, roughly 339,016 (from the MSP website) people. Whereas PP and registration repeal (HB 5225) would effect any law abiding person in Michigan that wishes to purchase a pistol which could be nearly 7 million people.
    ...
    Just a FYI, 494,199 CPL's have been issued 2001-June 2011. The 2011-2012 report has not been posted yet. If memory serves me it is suppose to be published by Oct.1.

    And, get rid of PFZ's. I agree with background checks.
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    How many non CPL people buy their only gun every year?
    Would it be safe to say 1/3 of CPL holders have kids, how many go to the movies or sport events?
    I have 2 sons, (Don't ask how, the answer might make your head explode. ), we go to movies and such. And I would love to be able to carry in a theater without putting everyone in a tizzy.
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