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Priority customer falsely arrested for SUV theft: worst case scenario?

Yard Sale

Regular Member
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Feb 13, 2010
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708
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Northern Nevada, ,
I brought up the lack of warrant to point out the crappy job the cops did. If you or I report a stolen vehicle, the cops will ask us, "Did you let them borrow it? Did you give them the keys? Oh there's a sales contract and money changed hands, too?" They wouldn't arrest the buyer, they would arrest us for making a false report.
 

REALteach4u

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Nov 25, 2010
Messages
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Spfld, Mo.
Right, because they were serving a lawful arrest warrant signed by a judge, right?

Not necessarily. I would think it would depend on how the call came in. But, there's more to the story that's NOT being told.

I agree here ... cops get call, caller says he's the owner of a vehicle and someone stole it. Veh reg still listed the dealer I'm sure. Duh, no brainer here ..


Here's the problem with that. If it happened immediately following, then the dealership AND the buyer would have had copies of the contract on-hand illustrating an exchange of funds. Which would mean that the police FAILED to perform a proper investigation and that alone makes them fully responsible for every action they took. This is what happens with sloppy police work, which may or may not have been present. But, given that he was arrested you can bet there was sloppy police work that could have been resolved by the mere presentation of the purchase contract and illustration of an exchange of funds.

So I'd be more inclined to believe that it didn't occur immediately and that it was reported to investigating officers as "man stole the vehicle". Heck, once they knew a purchase contract had been made, approved by all parties, and signed there should have been no more incident, charges get dropped, PD says they'll now charge the dealership with a crime and the shoe should have been on the other foot.

Again, there's a lot being left out of this story.
 
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REALteach4u

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Messages
428
Location
Spfld, Mo.
Cops arrest, DA (head of law enforcement, top cheese) decides if he wishes to prosecute. If DA does not want to move the case forward then a judge never sees it.

Which again creates the win-win for law enforcement, something that can and is used as a punishment tool for calling them out for something senseless. They arrest you and YOU'RE stuck footing the bill to have that arrest removed from your record, which means the damage may have already been done. If you work for an employer that such an arrest would be immediate grounds for termination, then they win again until you can PROVE your case in court and PROVE damages....oh and afford to hire a lawyer.

Far too many LEOs don't know or understand how to do real police work these days, or they just want a paycheck and don't care about actually doing the job. It's the cop that spends his time watching TV in an office, sits behind a desk, and does his college homework instead of going out and doing his job that I worry about the most. This is the LEO that will overlook something as simple as a visibly and behaviorally high drug addict carrying a 5 inch folding knife in plain sight. (yes, I've watched this happen)
 

eye95

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Jan 6, 2010
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Well when a car is reported stolen a notice is put on the dispatchers computer, if that license plate is run by an officer it will appear flagged as "reported stolen" at that point the officer may stop the vehicle, chances are, you'll go to jail into it's sorted out. unless you have a clear title plus DL in your name and there is absolutely no doubt they probably will arrest you.

If the vehicle was still marked as registered to the dealer or the dealer hadn't reported the sale to state, it's possible that the officer did check all documents and it did reasonably appear as a theft to him, the fact that he only spent four hours in jail tells me it didn't take the police long to find out what was really going on and they did release him shortly after...

I love rational analyses.
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
Which again creates the win-win for law enforcement, something that can and is used as a punishment tool for calling them out for something senseless. They arrest you and YOU'RE stuck footing the bill to have that arrest removed from your record, which means the damage may have already been done. If you work for an employer that such an arrest would be immediate grounds for termination, then they win again until you can PROVE your case in court and PROVE damages....oh and afford to hire a lawyer.

--snip--

Arrest does not equate to guilt/conviction.

An employer should be very careful when contemplating such action.

http://www.shrm.org/TemplatesTools/hrqa/Pages/criminalactivityoutsideworkplace.aspx
 

Esanders2008

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
576
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
And cops or soldiers are both not required to obey orders the know are unlawful or illegal. If a police commander or a company commander orders a cop or soldier to shoot an unarmed man in the head... they would be held accountable because it is obviously wrong.QUOTE]

Unless you put a pen in their one hand and say they where trying to stab thier partner....opps wrong thread.

heh.
 

Grapeshot

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Valhalla
That website is members only :(

Strange - I get the same thing when I click on it.

I goggled "can employee be terminated for arrest?" and it came up on top & opened fine.

Here is the page referenced:

Termination: Reasons for Termination: Can we terminate an employee who was arrested for criminal activity outside of the workplace?

12/9/2005
Many employers find themselves in a position where they need to determine the current employment status of an employee who has been arrested or incarcerated. Depending on the employer’s current policy or past practices, several options are available for handling such situations as they arise. An employer’s policy may simply call for treating such situations as unexcused absences and, therefore, for applying any disciplinary action that is in accordance with the current policy for unexcused absences. Another approach may be to consider handling such situations under any current company-approved unpaid policy relating to personal leave of absence.

For employers who tend to experience a higher prevalence of arrested or incarcerated workers, and depending on the nature of your business, you may find it necessary to draft a more detailed policy that specifically addresses what action the company will take when an employee is arrested or incarcerated and is going to be unavailable for work for a specified number of days (e.g., a suspension or a termination).

When you draft policies regarding arrested or incarcerated workers, it is imperative that you keep in mind that an important distinction must be made between an employee who has been arrested for a crime versus an employee who has been convicted of a crime. With this distinction in mind, you may find it more suitable to place an arrested employee on a suspended status and to terminate him or her only when the nature of the offense has a direct relationship with the employee’s job function and when the offense results in an actual conviction.

When you are faced with making decisions regarding the employment status of an employee who has been arrested or incarcerated, it is advisable that you first consult with legal counsel to ensure that the policy does not violate any federal EEO or state fair employment practice laws. You should further discuss any potential liability that may exist for negligent hiring or retention claims if you choose not to take any disciplinary action.

Regardless of what approach you as an employer decide to take in handling the issue of arrested or incarcerated employees, policies and practices should be applied and enforced fairly and consistently for all employees throughout the organization.

Have an HR-related question? Take advantage of your exclusive benefit of membership (excluding student members) and tap into the knowledge of SHRM’s team of certified HR Knowledge Advisors by getting assistance with your specific HR-related questions via e-mail or telephone. Visit www.shrm.org/hrinfo to find out more.

Please Note: This material is for personal use only and is protected by U.S. Copyright Law (Title 17 USC). It is provided as general information only and does not constitute and is not a substitute for legal or other professional advice. Reliance on this material is solely at your own risk. National members may reach the HR Knowledge Center by calling (800) 283-7476 and choosing option #5 or by using the HR Knowledge Center’s Assistance Request Form found under HR Resources on SHRM Online.
 
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OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
I love rational analyses.
Not knowing where the sales contract (copy), with signatures affixed, that the "new owner" must have to prove ownership was (I'm informed when buying a "car" to keep it in the car - proof of ownership) it is possible that the cops did not have access to the exculpatory documents. A "clear title" or state equivalent in WA or even Alabama, but in MO the sales contract is your "clear title" until the state issues you a title (15 to 30 days in MO) that is subsequently given to the bank if the car is owned on time.

Why arrest a dude who states, if he in fact did state, that he has proof of ownership, with signatures affixed. If he did in fact state that he has excuplitory documentation why not look at it to see if the perp is telling the truth. Heck, even if the cops looked at it they may not have believed it (not sure why they would not believe it) and chalked it up as another perp trying to pull a fast one. Though, how did the perp get a really really good forgery of a sales contract AND all the other documents that go along with a vehicle sales transaction.

I can not speak to any other state, but buying a car in MO is way more complicated than buying a pistol. Buying a rifle or shotgun, retail, is almost a handshake and money exchange. Cars, not so much.

More to the story is needed. And no, it may be that a lawyer will get the cops on a hook just as easily as the dealer is on a hook. The cops are at a minimum a "Yeah yeah buddy.....whatever, we are gunna let a judge work this out, I don't care.....now, watch your head." kind of outfit.
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Not knowing where the sales contract (copy), with signatures affixed, that the "new owner" must have to prove ownership was (I'm informed when buying a "car" to keep it in the car - proof of ownership) it is possible that the cops did not have access to the exculpatory documents. A "clear title" or state equivalent in WA or even Alabama, but in MO the sales contract is your "clear title" until the state issues you a title (15 to 30 days in MO) that is subsequently given to the bank if the car is owned on time.

Why arrest a dude who states, if he in fact did state, that he has proof of ownership, with signatures affixed. If he did in fact state that he has excuplitory documentation why not look at it to see if the perp is telling the truth. Heck, even if the cops looked at it they may not have believed it (not sure why they would not believe it) and chalked it up as another perp trying to pull a fast one. Though, how did the perp get a really really good forgery of a sales contract AND all the other documents that go along with a vehicle sales transaction.

I can not speak to any other state, but buying a car in MO is way more complicated than buying a pistol. Buying a rifle or shotgun, retail, is almost a handshake and money exchange. Cars, not so much.

More to the story is needed. And no, it may be that a lawyer will get the cops on a hook just as easily as the dealer is on a hook. The cops are at a minimum a "Yeah yeah buddy.....whatever, we are gunna let a judge work this out, I don't care.....now, watch your head." kind of outfit.

More to the story needs to be told. However, with the facts we have, the analysis that I cited was the most rational one so far. Most of the rest of the thread is conjecture and, worse, ranting reactions to the conjecture rather than rational reactions to what we do know. That happens a lot here.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
More to the story needs to be told. However, with the facts we have, the analysis that I cited was the most rational one so far. Most of the rest of the thread is conjecture and, worse, ranting reactions to the conjecture rather than rational reactions to what we do know. That happens a lot here.
Well, yeah, ranting and all ain't illegal for the most part.

But inferences can be made on what data is available given the limited options to either prove or disprove vehicle ownership at the time of the arrest. That is of course that Texas car sales are like Missouri cars sales. If not, I retract.
 

eye95

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Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Well, yeah, ranting and all ain't illegal for the most part.

But inferences can be made on what data is available given the limited options to either prove or disprove vehicle ownership at the time of the arrest. That is of course that Texas car sales are like Missouri cars sales. If not, I retract.

Of course ranting is not illegal. However, ranting based on conjecture is irrational and I don't respect it. I prefer to compliment rational thought, which is what I did initially--until called on having done so. Then I unwisely talked about the flip-side.

Anyway, I made my point. Feel free to defend the ranting some more. I won't feel the need to dwell on this anymore.
 
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