Virtual House Arrest Ordered for Minors in East St. Louis

I hope that it belongs in this sub-forum.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/09...d-to-curb-violence-in-east-st-louis/#comments

Asked about Constitutional concerns, and the need for probable cause, Parks says the recent wave of crime is the probable cause and justifies the extreme new measures.

“Vehicles that are moving will be stopped and searched for guns, weapons, drugs, and open alcohol and any other violations that are taking place,” Parks later told KMOX’s Mark Reardon. “People who are walking, people who are bicycling, can be stopped and searched for the same and, when it comes to state IDs, we’re going to be confirming that state IDs are in place for everyone involved.”

Click to expand...

IMHO, this is an example of why those interested in preserving freedom cannot ignore many of the smaller infringements as they all add up. How many potential constitutional violations and natural rights violations can be tallied from this article alone?

Aurora is coming back to haunt us~

St. Louis? Not at all surprising that "the authorities" are trying SOMEHOW to control all the low-life street-trash that lives there.

Good idea...it may have to do until something a whole lot more effective can be implemented.

And here I thought cesspool Camden, NJ was "the most dangerous city" in America...

cloudcroft said:

Good idea...it may have to do until something a whole lot more effective can be implemented.

Click to expand...

/just shakes head and walks away/

cloudcroft said:

St. Louis? Not at all surprising that "the authorities" are trying SOMEHOW to control all the low-life street-trash that lives there.

Good idea...it may have to do until something a whole lot more effective can be implemented.

And here I thought cesspool Camden, NJ was "the most dangerous city" in America...

Click to expand...

No, EAST ST. Louis, ILLINOIS.

Compared to East St. Louis, Illinois, St. Louis, Missouri is Lake Woebegone.

I doubt that any of this will actually be enforced given that it would so obviously pierce the cops' qualified immunity that they'd all end up living under the I-70 bridge when the lawsuits were done.

There's a big difference between ordering something and having those orders obeyed when to do so could keep the ones obeying the orders from feeding their families and paying their mortgages.

Yes, my apologies for thinking it was elsewhere, but when you see "St. Louis" you automatically (and naturally) think St. Louis, MO. And "East St. Louis" may have been the worst part of that OTHER St. Louis.

Whatever, is there really that much of a difference between the 2 places re: crime statistics?

Does East St. Louis, IL, have more or higher-quality street-trash teenage punks than St. Louis, MO, does?

Again, I thought Camden, NJ, was the winner there.

What do these 3 places have in common that would account for their serious crime problem, in this case, "virtual house arrest" for minors proposed for East St. Louis, IL? What are these "minors" (term used loosely) doing that's so bad/different than most other cities in the nation to bring a response like "house arrest" about? Where are the so-called "parents" -- any input from them about this?


@JmE: Don't walk away -- that's easy -- tell us YOUR solution to the problem.

East Saint Louis is just fine, a great vacation get-a-way for the family.

Just bring plenty of body armor.

Its a crap whole. Super crap hole. Like NYC

But even given that, you cannot just stop and search people for being in E. St. Louis ... otherwise every city in the US and people who live or go through them can be searched.

Just goes to show you: cops cannot stop crime. They don't want to confront criminals (who would ?). I know many cops who pretend their radios don't work when calls to ghettos are announced.

To be in that town at night when the temp. is above 80°F is asking for it.

1. East St. Louis sounds like it is in need of a new mayor. That one obviously does not plan to honor his oath of office.

2. Instead of just holding the teenagers responsible for their criminal activities, start holding their parents equally responsible. It's been a long time since I had a teenager in the house, but, when I did, the Army held me, her sponsor, responsible for her actions as well as holding her responsible.

3. I have long said that, upon conviction, the best thing that could happen to some of these little gangster wannabe types is to be bent over a sawhorse, their britches (already half falling off) and undershorts dropped around their ankles, and the biggest bailiff or deputy sheriff available handed an old-fashioned razor strop. Said razor strop should then be forcefully applied to the seat of learning. Were this to be done at high noon outside the county courthouse, I believe you would see a rapid reduction in crime.

Before someone says that would be child abuse, let me say that not teaching a child that there are consequences for his/her actions is far more abusive.

4. No LEO in his/her right mind and with even a rudimentary knowledge of the law is going to enforce this mayor's edict.

"Said razor strop should then be forcefully applied to the seat of learning." -- SFCRetired

And afterwards we'd hear something akin to:

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach." -- The Captain ("Cool Hand Luke" 1967)

...and then promptly putting the guy back into his chain-gang leg-irons and getting back to asphalting the road -- on a sunny and really HOT Summer day.

Works for me.

SFCRetired said:

3. I have long said that, upon conviction, the best thing that could happen to some of these little gangster wannabe types is to be bent over a sawhorse, their britches (already half falling off) and undershorts dropped around their ankles, and the biggest bailiff or deputy sheriff available handed an old-fashioned razor strop. Said razor strop should then be forcefully applied to the seat of learning. Were this to be done at high noon outside the county courthouse, I believe you would see a rapid reduction in crime.

Click to expand...

And at midnight about a week later, the kid and all his friends would burn down the big deputy's house, with him in it. And the deputy would deserve it.

Adults wearing blue or red?

I have a sudden urge to go to E. St Luis in the brightest shades I can find and see what happens. Good luck arresting me cause you don't like the color of my shirt. Can you say resisting arrest with extreme prejudice? I knew you could. Im not one to go looking for a fight but this REALLY pisses me off. This guy needs to be kicked out of office Ricky f'in Tick and any officer who obeys him should be prosecuted and sued to the fullest extent of the law.

Lmao, what would they do if I sewed a red and blue shirt together and made them into one? Arrest me twice? Maybe the sight of me having big giant balls like that would make some heads explode.

You'd lose...but at least you'd die tryin' -- right?

BTW...isn't killing mustangs illegal? Animal cruelty at the very least? Please explain...

mustangkiller said:

I have a sudden urge to go to E. St Luis in the brightest shades I can find and see what happens. Good luck arresting me cause you don't like the color of my shirt. Can you say resisting arrest with extreme prejudice? I knew you could. Im not one to go looking for a fight but this REALLY pisses me off. This guy needs to be kicked out of office Ricky f'in Tick and any officer who obeys him should be prosecuted and sued to the fullest extent of the law.

Lmao, what would they do if I sewed a red and blue shirt together and made them into one? Arrest me twice? Maybe the sight of me having big giant balls like that would make some heads explode.

Click to expand...

You'd get shot by the gangs before you got arrested by the cops~

cloudcroft said:

You'd lose...but at least you'd die tryin' -- right?

BTW...isn't killing mustangs illegal? Animal cruelty at the very least? Please explain...

Click to expand...

Not if it's a Ford Mustang.

cloudcroft said:

@JmE: Don't walk away -- that's easy -- tell us YOUR solution to the problem.

Click to expand...

For starters, they haven't the authority to trample on the constitution. The solution is that if they cannot do 'something' within constitutional constraints then they do NOTHING at all. The best thing they could possibly do is stop enforcing any firearm laws. Allow people to be responsible for their own safety.

If law enforcement is going to violate the supreme law of the land then they are criminals just the same.

cloudcroft said:

in this case, "virtual house arrest" for minors proposed for East St. Louis, IL? What are these "minors" (term used loosely) doing that's so bad/different than most other cities in the nation to bring a response like "house arrest" about? Where are the so-called "parents" -- any input from them about this?

Click to expand...

Did you read the whole article? Unless I misunderstood it, they are going to perform these searches on all vehicles, all bicycles, all pedestrians, and make sure that all persons have and carry state issued id. This isn't just minors, as far as I understood it.

Jack House said:

You'd get shot by the gangs before you got arrested by the cops~


Not if it's a Ford Mustang.

Click to expand...

cloudcroft said:

You'd lose...but at least you'd die tryin' -- right?

BTW...isn't killing mustangs illegal? Animal cruelty at the very least? Please explain...

Click to expand...

Like I said the first time, I'm not one to go looking for a fight. It's just an urge I have in response to this one story. Your both right, one or both of these groups would have my head on the proverbial pike. I will say this, in all honesty, we have an 11pm curfew in my town for minors. I refuse to make my daughter obey it. She will obey MY curfew, nothing less and nothing more. If I know who she's with, where she's at and what she's doing, the city can stuff it. She's a good kid and keeps good company. My wife and I are her parents and I'll be damned if someone else is gonna tell me what time she has to be home. So far it hasn't been an issue but if it becomes one, we will fight tooth and nail for her and every other family here. What happened to freedom of travel? Does it only apply during certain times of the day and only to certain age groups? Yeah, didn't think so.

mustangkiller said:

I will say this, in all honesty, we have an 11pm curfew in my town for minors. I refuse to make my daughter obey it. She will obey MY curfew, nothing less and nothing more. If I know who she's with, where she's at and what she's doing, the city can stuff it. She's a good kid and keeps good company. My wife and I are her parents and I'll be damned if someone else is gonna tell me what time she has to be home. So far it hasn't been an issue but if it becomes one, we will fight tooth and nail for her and every other family here. What happened to freedom of travel? Does it only apply during certain times of the day and only to certain age groups? Yeah, didn't think so.

Click to expand...

I agree with you. It sets the stage for them to accept the unacceptable by their government at a young age. My alternative solution to blanket geographical curfews like that is for the parents to be held responsible if the minor commits a crime. That, I don't have much problem with. However, teaching whole swatches of young minds that it's okay for their government to infringe upon their right to travel and freedom of association at certain hours is something that's always rubbed me the wrong way. I think it primes them to be more accepting of liberty being stripped from them in adult life for anything resembling of an explanation that appears even marginally plausible and convincing on the surface.

JmE said:

I agree with you. It sets the stage for them to accept the unacceptable by their government at a young age. My alternative solution to blanket geographical curfews like that is for the parents to be held responsible if the minor commits a crime. That, I don't have much problem with. However, teaching whole swatches of young minds that it's okay for their government to infringe upon their right to travel and freedom of association at certain hours is something that's always rubbed me the wrong way. I think it primes them to be more accepting of liberty being stripped from them in adult life for anything resembling of an explanation that appears even marginally plausible and convincing on the surface.

Click to expand...

We really need a like, thumbs up or a high five button. Hell, even an F-U button. There are lots of posts like this one that I'd like to show approval/disapproval for but quoting and saying +1 and the like just muddies up the thread.

Mode, make it happen

mustangkiller said:

What happened to freedom of travel? Does it only apply during certain times of the day and only to certain age groups? Yeah, didn't think so.

Click to expand...

Yes - http://constitution.org/powright.htm

"Minors don't have rights"

It's absolute ********, but it is what it is until we change it. I agree with, and support your right as parents to assert full and exclusive parental authority over your children. Government be damned.

JmE said:

I agree with you. It sets the stage for them to accept the unacceptable by their government at a young age. My alternative solution to blanket geographical curfews like that is for the parents to be held responsible if the minor commits a crime. That, I don't have much problem with. However, teaching whole swatches of young minds that it's okay for their government to infringe upon their right to travel and freedom of association at certain hours is something that's always rubbed me the wrong way. I think it primes them to be more accepting of liberty being stripped from them in adult life for anything resembling of an explanation that appears even marginally plausible and convincing on the surface.

Click to expand...

Well, that's exactly what it is. Kids are mandated by schools to consume no more than a set limit of calories, despite age, size and athletic differences. The TSA is implementing an "obedience" program, despite having zero authority to make travelers comply. A Wisconsin Judge announced we have "no fundamental right to choose" the food we consume, Bloomberg banned soda over a certain size, and now curfews are being set.

Anyone that looks at the world today and denies we are in an ACTIVE police state is not being honest with themselves.