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Thread: Open Carry Holster Rumors

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    Open Carry Holster Rumors

    As November 1st get closer the rumor mill at work is starting to ramp up. A rumor I heard today is that for open carry you must have a belt holster that has a strap or device that secures the gun in the holster. I just finished skimming through the enrolled law and the only thing I could find said that the open carry gun shall be carried in a belt or shoulder holster, there is no mention of straps or devices securing the gun in the holster. Now keep in mind that I just skimmed over the law and could have very well missed the part about securing the gun but I dont think I did. Any one who has taken more time to read the law and can shed some light on this matter please correct me if I am wrong.

    Thanks, Rick

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    Regular Member ethorman's Avatar
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    No your right shoulder or belt holster by law however most OCers recognize some form of retention would be advised as a just in case. The .1 seconds it takes me to hit a button or thumb break is well worth the insurance of someone running by grabbing a weapon or heaven forbid while in a public restroom on the toilet it falling out of your holster.

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    There was an amendment that was proposed in the House at one point that would have required retention, but it was argued that the Legislature did not want to have police going around checking holsters for compliance. The amendment was defeated.

    The enrolled version of SB1733 is silent on retention, but does require a belt or shoulder holster. No Mexican carry or hand carry. No dangling from a sling.

    Thanks for your question!

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    Thanks to all for your input. I agree that some sort of retention device makes sence, and although I dont intend to open carry very often i have ordered a holster with a strap that secures the gun in the holster.

    Thanks again, Rick

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    Galco...friction retention....works for me
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    I bought a black hawk for my smith and Wesson and i love it. It locks your gun in. I also had my wife try and pull it out of the holster and she could not it locks in good but very easy for me to draw from.

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    Regular Member ethorman's Avatar
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    I have a Blackhawk Serpa for both my carry guns, love them and they work great. For me at least.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    I have a Blackhawk Serpa for both my carry guns, love them and they work great. For me at least.
    Uh-Oh, someone just endorsed a serpa holster

    get ScottE on the thread STAT!

    He needs to tell you just how dangerous those are and recommend a different one for you....
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    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Uh-Oh, someone just endorsed a serpa holster

    get ScottE on the thread STAT!

    He needs to tell you just how dangerous those are and recommend a different one for you....
    OK, you have my attention. Is there really a problem with them, or is it just one persons opinion. I went to a training class and the lead instructor had a low opinion of the Serpa, but the things he was saying were wrong with it could have been wrong with any retention holster with moving parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oklaccer View Post
    OK, you have my attention. Is there really a problem with them, or is it just one persons opinion. I went to a training class and the lead instructor had a low opinion of the Serpa, but the things he was saying were wrong with it could have been wrong with any retention holster with moving parts.
    People who can not operate the release mechanism correctly have a tendency to shoot themselves in the leg.

    Used to hear stories about them not releasing correctly due to dirt or grit, but I think with the generation 2 design, that problem has been reduced if not eliminated.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    People who can not operate the release mechanism correctly have a tendency to shoot themselves in the leg.
    Sounds like "operator error". Someone on one of the forums I peruse has a tag line something like "Nothing is impossible for a sufficiently talented fool".
    I have not heard of anyone shooting themselves in the leg, although I can see how it could happen.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oklaccer View Post
    OK, you have my attention. Is there really a problem with them, or is it just one persons opinion. I went to a training class and the lead instructor had a low opinion of the Serpa, but the things he was saying were wrong with it could have been wrong with any retention holster with moving parts.
    We've been having a user running around trashing SERPa holsters everytime they're mentioned. Personally I don't mind them, should've used purple text.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    People who shoot their own leg do not have a holster problem. They have a finger in the trigger guard problem. Except for very rare circumstances, guns go boom because someone pulls the trigger. I don't own a Serpa, but to imply that the holster discharges the firearm is just not right.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The Serpa ND thing has happened enough times now to fairly smart people who couldn't accept what they were told about their holsters, that most everyone has been warned of the hazards of them. It's not like it used to be where only a few people really comprehended how dangerous they can be.

    Now that many big name shooting schools have outlawed their use, and discussions such as this one are common, it's nice that newer carriers at least have fair warning before they risk shooting a hole in their leg.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    From what I understand the US Marines just adopted the Serpa holster. I also find it amazing that a inanimate object can shoot a hole in someone's leg all by itself.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 10-19-2012 at 10:11 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    I've had mine for several months using it every day and it has not attacked me yet. I think it is a really good holster and not bad price either.

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    What about a drop down leg holster? I am not "tacticool", it's just that I don't want to tuck my shirt in and it's just much more practical for me. I've looked everywhere and not 1 post about it. I have checked on here and posts about other states using a leg holster is fine.

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    Regular Member robert1970's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary S View Post
    I bought a black hawk for my smith and Wesson and i love it. It locks your gun in. I also had my wife try and pull it out of the holster and she could not it locks in good but very easy for me to draw from.
    I think they are awsome holsters.I just bought one today,alomg with my new springfeild 1911.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    People who shoot their own leg do not have a holster problem. They have a finger in the trigger guard problem. Except for very rare circumstances, guns go boom because someone pulls the trigger. I don't own a Serpa, but to imply that the holster discharges the firearm is just not right.
    Absolutely true! I have been OCing with a Serpa for nearly two years and love it. The retention is positive and strong. I have had people (friends) try to remove my gun from the holster and it was retained so well they could actually lift me off the ground by the gun without it leaving the holster and I am not a small person.

    As for shooting themselves in the leg, that is 100% a finger user problem rather than a holster problem. All you have to do is keep the finger straight and press the release with the finger flat and you end up out of the holster with the finger in perfect position. If you try and use your fingertip, i.e. curl the finger, then yes, you will come out of the holster with your finger on the trigger. Remember those four pesky rules?

    My only wish for the Serpa is that it would be available for a wider variety of guns.

  20. #20
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpyne View Post
    Absolutely true! I have been OCing with a Serpa for nearly two years and love it. The retention is positive and strong. I have had people (friends) try to remove my gun from the holster and it was retained so well they could actually lift me off the ground by the gun without it leaving the holster and I am not a small person.

    As for shooting themselves in the leg, that is 100% a finger user problem rather than a holster problem. All you have to do is keep the finger straight and press the release with the finger flat and you end up out of the holster with the finger in perfect position. If you try and use your fingertip, i.e. curl the finger, then yes, you will come out of the holster with your finger on the trigger. Remember those four pesky rules?

    My only wish for the Serpa is that it would be available for a wider variety of guns.
    I'm a leather person, but I may get a Serpa just so some people will have a hissy fit. I guess I could paint it to match my leather.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Regular Member ethorman's Avatar
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    Wow never guess my Serpa post would have drawn so much attention. There is a recent article in Handguns Magazine where the author talks about this very subject. He concluded in many cases that it was the operators error in not keeping the finger off the trigger while drawing. He said some people have bad habits and that is the reason for some of the AD. I personally have never had an issue. I think it's hard to have "something" pull the trigger backwards while your pulling the pistol in the same direction. I am not saying there were not some design flaws but it me my Serpa works, and is not on the recall list from Blackhawk.

  22. #22
    Regular Member ethorman's Avatar
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    Forgot to ad my Serpa is a 1911 Sportster Revision B. it's good to know exactly what type of "Serpa" you have.

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    I've been using a SERPA leg holster for the past 4.5 months and love it. I'm curious if it would qualify as a "belt" holster since it is your belt that actually holds it up (since the leg straps simply prevent it from moving sideways and don't actually keep it from falling to the ground).

    As for all comments about SERPAs being "dangerous" I invite them to come out to the sandbox and and see what the most commonly used holster is. With the exception of flyers (who mostly use hand-me-down shoulder holsters; especially those in the 1pc flight suits and not the new A2CUs) the SERPA is the most commonly used holster out here. After the SERPA it would probably be the blackhawk universal holster (easily the most commonly issued holster; though many choose to buy a better one), followed by various models with thumb breaks (I've heard certain jobs like SF are supposed to have a thumb break).

    So if it's good enough for combat I fail to see how it magically isn't good enough for civilian use.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmpnridr View Post
    What about a drop down leg holster? I am not "tacticool", it's just that I don't want to tuck my shirt in and it's just much more practical for me. I've looked everywhere and not 1 post about it. I have checked on here and posts about other states using a leg holster is fine.
    Based on how the majority of folks are interpreting the new OC law, tactical thigh rigs do NOT seem to be compliant with the "belt holster" designation. I have not heard any significant discussion about a western-style belt rig (external belt with integral holster).

    If you are looking for a holster that carries farther below the belt line than most "concealment" holsters, look at duty-style holsters. There are a few makers of off-the-shelf stuff that does not look like you merely moved your cop holster to your dress belt to wear your gun out of uniform. There are semi- and full-custom makers who also offer duty hlster styles.

    From practical experience I offer the suggestion that you might want to avoid the "offset" that most duty holsters seem to accentuate. Cops need the clearance to get around their bat belt and quite often heavy clothing (especially outerwear).

    Also, be aware that duty style holsters are almost always zero cant - the barrel is perpendicular to the line of the belt. They are also designed to be worn at TDC 3 (or 9 for you lefties) o'clock. This may change the draw stroke for folks who are used to something like ther FBI cant or wearing your holster well back towards/on the hip.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Based on how the majority of folks are interpreting the new OC law, tactical thigh rigs do NOT seem to be compliant with the "belt holster" designation. I have not heard any significant discussion about a western-style belt rig (external belt with integral holster).

    If you are looking for a holster that carries farther below the belt line than most "concealment" holsters, look at duty-style holsters. There are a few makers of off-the-shelf stuff that does not look like you merely moved your cop holster to your dress belt to wear your gun out of uniform. There are semi- and full-custom makers who also offer duty hlster styles.

    From practical experience I offer the suggestion that you might want to avoid the "offset" that most duty holsters seem to accentuate. Cops need the clearance to get around their bat belt and quite often heavy clothing (especially outerwear).

    Also, be aware that duty style holsters are almost always zero cant - the barrel is perpendicular to the line of the belt. They are also designed to be worn at TDC 3 (or 9 for you lefties) o'clock. This may change the draw stroke for folks who are used to something like ther FBI cant or wearing your holster well back towards/on the hip.

    stay safe.
    Do you know where one could find clarifying guidance on the "belt holster" bit then? Because to me it means a holster that is designed to attach to the belt.

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