be carful in your own back yard, or another cop shooting

i thought this was food for thought. i know some will say that the LEOs were justified in the shooting. but dang people, how many victims have to die?

http://gunssavelives.net/self-defen...s-then-shot-killed-by-police-in-her-backyard/

Would be almost willing to bet that, at her age, she was more than a little confused, especially when the cops started yelling at her. Police need to recognize that the elderly only get more confused when you start screaming at them.

Were the police justified in shooting her? Legally; probably. Morally/ethically; no.

SFCRetired said:

Would be almost willing to bet that, at her age, she was more than a little confused, especially when the cops started yelling at her. Police need to recognize that the elderly only get more confused when you start screaming at them.

Were the police justified in shooting her? Legally; probably. Morally/ethically; no.

Click to expand...

I agree with the lower paragraph(?). But she did call the police. OTOH, she fired a warning shot, and warning shots are NOT AUTHORIZED. If you want to warn someone, get a pump shotgun or SBS. If you want to defend yourself, carry a loaded gun and a functioning brain.

If she in fact pointed the gun at the officers as alleged then the officers would be justified.

If the officers made up the story and she was compliant and didn't threaten the officers then they need to be prosecuted

really only two ways this can go.

Davis still maintained her sister wasn’t pointing at anyone and was moving too quickly to aim.

http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2012/sep/30/victims-sister-still-haunted-shooting-ar-2244979/

Mrs Towler's family said that she was not wearing her glasses or had her hearing aid in at the time.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...lary-at-her-home/story-fnd134gw-1226482547439

911 call recording:

http://www.wset.com/story/19668957/911-recordings-released-from-altavista-shooting

Police have responded to “several” calls from the victim in the past~Alta Vista Chief of Police Hamilton

http://www2.godanriver.com/news/201...-shot-killed-state-police-officer-ar-2220120/

SFCRetired said:

Would be almost willing to bet that, at her age, she was more than a little confused, especially when the cops started yelling at her. Police need to recognize that the elderly only get more confused when you start screaming at them.

Were the police justified in shooting her? Legally; probably. Morally/ethically; no.

Click to expand...

I suppose if there was such confusion that she was as justified in shooting the police as they were her.

I've heard the slogan "Dial 911 and die", I just did not realize it was the responders that will kill you.

As many off duty officers, under cover officers and armed citizens have found out the hard way. One has to be very carefull what one does and how one reacts when uniform officers show up.

Frist off 99 percent of the time uniformed officers have no idea who is or is not the bad guy.

They recived a trouble call.

They didin't get I am the home owner I am wearing a bright pink sweat shirt and I am armed with a shotgun. The bad guy is dressed in all black and is armed with a pistol. I have the bad guy on the ground at gun point. Yes dispatcher I see the officer coming I am wearing the bright pink sweat shirt I am the home owner the attacker is laying on the ground.

What they get is SEND HELP SOME IS TRYING TO BREAK IN MY HOUSE SEND HELP. What do they look like I DON'T KNOW SEND HELP FAST.

Not only to you have to know what to do when the bad guys show up ,you have to know what to do and how to behave when the good guys show up.

More evidence that it is YOUR job to defend yourself and your property.

It is the cops' job to do the paperwork afterward.

Stop asking them to do your job. And certainly don't expect it.

In the big picture, whose fault is it when you tell the cops to do YOUR job, and they screw it up?

lockman said:

I suppose if there was such confusion that she was as justified in shooting the police as they were her.

I've heard the slogan "Dial 911 and die", I just did not realize it was the responders that will kill you.

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I have been shot at, knifed, etc and never called the police. First, their ability to catch someone after the fact is limited. And second, anything you tell them can be used against you in court, even if true.

And lets say that you have armed criminals about and you call the cops...they show up and ask you to disarm (crooks are still running around) ... they're freaking nuts to think one should disarm. Cops don't like to work in an environment where citizens are armed? Move to another country or get a new job. Policemen safety does not trump mine.

davidmcbeth said:

I have been shot at, knifed, etc and never called the police. First, their ability to catch someone after the fact is limited. And second, anything you tell them can be used against you in court, even if true.

And lets say that you have armed criminals about and you call the cops...they show up and ask you to disarm (crooks are still running around) ... they're freaking nuts to think one should disarm. Cops don't like to work in an environment where citizens are armed? Move to another country or get a new job. Policemen safety does not trump mine.

Click to expand...

well said

From a LEO point of view
When you get out of your patrol car on scene to a call that involves a weapon everything goes into warp speed. Trying to figure out whats going on, where the weapon is, who's involved it gets hectic. I put someone who drew their weapon in self defense in handcuffs. It lasted about 2 minutes while I figured out what went down. He was agitated and yelling when I arrived so with no description or any other mean of identification than a name I couldn't risk that he wasn't the aggressor who had just disarmed the victim. I then uncuffed him, apologized and let him put his gun in his holster. It's all about what the officer knows or more importantly what they DON'T know. It's way too easy to arm chair quarterback law enforcement. I wasn't there, I can't judge someone's actions based off a news report. When you have the football you gotta pass, hand it off, run with it or throw it away. Make your decision based off the defense and pray it doesn't end up as a loss.

PotterMP said:

From a LEO point of view
When you get out of your patrol car on scene to a call that involves a weapon everything goes into warp speed. Trying to figure out whats going on, where the weapon is, who's involved it gets hectic. I put someone who drew their weapon in self defense in handcuffs. It lasted about 2 minutes while I figured out what went down. He was agitated and yelling when I arrived so with no description or any other mean of identification than a name I couldn't risk that he wasn't the aggressor who had just disarmed the victim. I then uncuffed him, apologized and let him put his gun in his holster. It's all about what the officer knows or more importantly what they DON'T know. It's way too easy to arm chair quarterback law enforcement. I wasn't there, I can't judge someone's actions based off a news report. When you have the football you gotta pass, hand it off, run with it or throw it away. Make your decision based off the defense and pray it doesn't end up as a loss.

Click to expand...

Guilty until proven innocent, we understand.

PotterMP said:

From a LEO point of view
When you get out of your patrol car on scene to a call that involves a weapon everything goes into warp speed. Trying to figure out whats going on, where the weapon is, who's involved it gets hectic. I put someone who drew their weapon in self defense in handcuffs. It lasted about 2 minutes while I figured out what went down. He was agitated and yelling when I arrived so with no description or any other mean of identification than a name I couldn't risk that he wasn't the aggressor who had just disarmed the victim. I then uncuffed him, apologized and let him put his gun in his holster. It's all about what the officer knows or more importantly what they DON'T know. It's way too easy to arm chair quarterback law enforcement. I wasn't there, I can't judge someone's actions based off a news report. When you have the football you gotta pass, hand it off, run with it or throw it away. Make your decision based off the defense and pray it doesn't end up as a loss.

Click to expand...

Does it ever occur to a LEO that you place a citizen in peril by cuffing him? Two minutes is can be a very long time. Especially if LE does not know if every participant in a incident is accounted for.

moonie said:

Guilty until proven innocent, we understand.

Click to expand...

If you draw your firearm on someone in KS you commit the crime of Aggravated Assault.
KSA 21-3408: Assault. Assault is intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily harm.
KSA 21-3410: Aggravated assault. Aggravated assault is an assault, as defined in K.S.A. 21-3408 and amendments thereto, committed: (a) With a deadly weapon;
You are JUSTIFIED in doing it by self defense
KSA 21-5222. Use of force in defense of a person. [Amends K.S.A. 2010 Supp. § 21-3211]
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent it
appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such use of force is necessary to
defend such person or a third person against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force.
(b) A person is justified in the use of deadly force under circumstances described in
subsection (a) if such person reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is necessary to
prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.
(c) Nothing in this section shall require a person to retreat if such person is using force to
protect such person or a third person.

You are not guilty of a crime until a judge or jury says you are. Its our job is to keep people safe, investigate crimes, and set up a meetings with a judge if there is enough evidence.

In reference to handcuffing...an LEO takes responsibility for the personal safety of any person they detain in handcuffs or not.

PotterMP said:

From a LEO point of view
When you get out of your patrol car on scene to a call that involves a weapon everything goes into warp speed. Trying to figure out whats going on, where the weapon is, who's involved it gets hectic. I put someone who drew their weapon in self defense in handcuffs. It lasted about 2 minutes while I figured out what went down. He was agitated and yelling when I arrived so with no description or any other mean of identification than a name I couldn't risk that he wasn't the aggressor who had just disarmed the victim. I then uncuffed him, apologized and let him put his gun in his holster. It's all about what the officer knows or more importantly what they DON'T know. It's way too easy to arm chair quarterback law enforcement. I wasn't there, I can't judge someone's actions based off a news report. When you have the football you gotta pass, hand it off, run with it or throw it away. Make your decision based off the defense and pray it doesn't end up as a loss.

Click to expand...

well, I don't know the cop either, right? So I am just to assume he is not crazy? Yeah, right. Agitated and yelling is not grounds of any crime.

PotterMP said:

Its our job is to keep people safe

Click to expand...

Not according to SCOTUS...

And to follow the rules, the cite for this is Warren v. District of Columbia.

PotterMP said:

... Its our job is to keep people safe...

Click to expand...

How did I miss that?

Could you please support this assertion citing your state or local laws?

Note: a "mission statement" is nice, but is non-binding.