eye95
Well-known member
What about "To protect and serve" on the side of the car.
Oh, wait. Also non-binding. Never mind.
Oh, wait. Also non-binding. Never mind.
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be carful in your own back yard, or another cop shooting
- Thread starter papa bear
- Start date
Didn't that change to "Treat them like a King"?
PotterMP
Regular Member
Thanks for the reference I hadn't see that before. From what I have read about it my opinion is it was a HUGE cluster **** in the dispatch dept.
The way I approach my work is to assist and protect people. Not all law enforcement is bad.
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eye95
Well-known member
You're right; it isn't. However, not all LE is good. Some of it is downright evil, but it is armed with physical weapons and with the power of the State. As a culture, we need to take LE down off the pedestal on which it has been placed and realize that these are ordinary citizens who have been empowered under very narrowly defined circumstances to exercise specific powers that ordinary citizens cannot.
The priorities of LE should be (1) protect the rights of all of the People, (2) protect the innocents from those who would unlawfully harm them, and lastly (3) go after the bad guys. Unfortunately, a lot of LE put so high an import on (3) that they run roughshod over (1) and fail to accomplish (2).
It is better that officers do nothing than they succeed at (3) and fail at (1).
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hermannr
Regular Member
You know, I am not going to pin this on anyone in particular reason later....but as you are an officer, I would like you to evaluate the story below and comment...the reason...in this story"...she did not have her hearing aids in..." Look up Birk and Williams in Seattle...also stated by family Williams could not hear too well...at least there were witnesses with Williams...his family got $1.3M (wrongful death) and a statute of him in Seattles largest city park. Birk resigned, should have been sent to jail IMHO. anyway, common thread here is hearing problems..
Next story is about a lady that called 911..tty...she was DEAF, completely absolutely deaf. Home invasion...police show up and she comes running out of the house...the police yell at her to stop...of course she did not stop, she could not hear them...or anything...no she was not armed..but that didn't stop them from tazing her, cuffing her and taking her to jail (while the thief got away clean) I have a good feeling City of Tacoma is going to pay a bunch for this one.
I do not hear well myself...I'm SS+age and spent 8 years in the US Army (that is where the hearing problems come from) So my question is..who's responsibility is it to understand that someone has (may have) a hearing problem...how could the dispatcher miss that the woman was deaf? she was contacted via the deaf tty...I must assume the dispatcher told the responding officers the woman was deaf? Should they not have known that she could not hear them. But when they yell for her to "get on the ground", then taze and jail her for not doing so????
So: who's fault? dispatch, officers, training or all of the above??? eh?
I'll tell you what, I would be very unhappy if I had someone yelling at me to get on the ground for doing nothing illegal....and I guarantee, someone would pay as big a price as my lawyer could get out of them...especially if they shot me like Birk did Williams
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Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Great point.
They were meant for use by hunters so they would not disturb neighbors and others who were enjoying the quiet outdoors.
eye95
Well-known member
I think the problem is that folks think suppressors are the silencers they see on TV and in the movies and are only used by bad guys. Those devices do not exist.
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OC for ME
Regular Member
We may discover that their is no penalty for being apart of a "HUGE cluster ****".....heck, I'd guess "There ain't no law against that!"
.....and no redress for the family of the victim. QI and other such "reasonableness tests" that the shooter(s) will be shielded by.
Sad tale, yet becoming more prevalent I fear.
KYGlockster
Activist Member
You are right, not all officers are bad. Sadly, today there are a large number of police officers that are bad!
In this situation several things should have been taken into consideration.
The police stated that they had dealt with this woman before... several times. The woman was in her home, and a dropped call to dispatch does not create an exigent circumstance that would allow the officers to ingore the constitution and enter her home without a warrant or her permission. Had they heard screams coming from inside, then they could have certainly entered. They knew beforehand that this woman calls often and that this was probably a false alarm. Being as they had dealt with her numerous times before, they should have known who the homeowner was, and refrained from KILLING her. This was NOT justified in my opinion, and had the officers stayed outside this lady would still be alive. Even if they did enter, they could have announced themselves and calmly stated the situation, not dump lead in a feeble old lady.
Other articles I have read have stated she was killed outside her sister's home. If this was the case, then I still believe the officers were wrong. When an old lady, with whom you have dealt with before has a firearm in her hand and believes someone is lurking in her yard you do NOT pull on her and start shooting. I have looked down the barrel of a firearm before, and it is not always an instance where you immediately draw and fire. They knew of this woman and her disabilites I am sure, and they never should have taken her life. This is why we do NOT need people working in this line of work that are afraid of firearms. If the police killed everyone that pointed a firearm in their general direction then we would have plenty of innocent people end up dead. You must maintain a level head at all times and not succumb to fear -- especially when a little old lady has a gun in her hand.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Very good points. However, most cops will disagree with you as will their bureaucrat masters. The travesty is that the "justice system" as a whole disagrees with your points also.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Just look at the words on the back of my shirt in my Avatar.
Apparently cops need to control the situation includes murdering people from behind when they are carrying closed small pocket knife and a piece of wood he was preparing to carve.
And yes I feel strongly enough about this I do actually OC while wearing that shirt at times.
Apparently cops need to control the situation includes murdering people from behind when they are carrying closed small pocket knife and a piece of wood he was preparing to carve.
And yes I feel strongly enough about this I do actually OC while wearing that shirt at times.
noname762
Regular Member
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KYGlockster
Activist Member
You can also obtain a AOW (shotgun that has never had a stock attached and is less than 26" OAL) for a measly $5 AOW transfer tax from a title 2 dealer. Of course, the shotgun would be considered an AOW by the federal government and not a SBS which it still is. You can do this by purchasing a shotgun that has NEVER had a stock attached (pistol-grips only) and that is under 26" in length. They have pump-actions that are extremely compact (2 in the tube), but the best selection would be a side-by-side (although the majority would be SBS and not AOW because it is hard to find a side-by-side that has never had a shoulder stock) IMO. The reason they are classified as an AOW instead of a SBS are because: they are a "concealable" firearm; have never had a shoulder-stock attached; have a smooth bore; and have an overall length under 26".
You can also manufacture your own SBS or AOW by paying a $200 manufacturing tax. This can be done quite easily with any shotgun you currently have. You would need an ATF Form-1 approved before you manufacture.
If you have a "shotgun" that you purchased from an FFL that came from the factory with a pistol-grip (the 4473 would have been marked "other"), then you can reduce the length of the barrel to under 18" as long as you keep the OAL of the firearm over 26". This is because the ATF considers this a handgun and not a shotgun.
All of this can be verified at atf.gov.
All of this could be irrelevant if you live in a state that does not allow these types of weapons, or that has different restrictions.
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hermannr
Regular Member
Well, it has finally happened: over 6 1/2 years later, over a year after being convicted of use of excessive force in the beating death of Otto Zehm, Spokane PD X Sgt Karl Thompson was led out of the court room (in cuffs, finally) to begin serving 4 years and 3 months in the federal pen. (ya, that is all...anyone else it would be 20 years for murder)
Many many problems with this whole case, from Spokane not charging him with murder, his divorce (on paper only) so he could claim to be indigent and have the government pay over $650,000 in lawyers fees, and then to beat a man to death and only get 4 years and 3 months???? (actually, his defense did not think he should spend any time in prison).
The new Spokane CoP will have a big big job to fix the city's (and all Eastern WA) perseption of the Spokane Police Department and also to get those still in the PD, and who still support Karl Thompson, and still do not think he did anything wrong...in line, or out the door. Spokane PD is very very ill when some still think beating a person to death for IMHO, at the absolute most, contempt of cop. is a proper police responce.
Otto Zehm was purchasing a bottle of pop, and wanted to get a twinky snack, he was downs, and looked it. Is that a reason to beat a guy to death. One of the other SPD stated that Otto Zehm showed "no respect"...and I suppose he was also one of those that thought that was reason enough to beat Otto to death...sick.
Many many problems with this whole case, from Spokane not charging him with murder, his divorce (on paper only) so he could claim to be indigent and have the government pay over $650,000 in lawyers fees, and then to beat a man to death and only get 4 years and 3 months???? (actually, his defense did not think he should spend any time in prison).
The new Spokane CoP will have a big big job to fix the city's (and all Eastern WA) perseption of the Spokane Police Department and also to get those still in the PD, and who still support Karl Thompson, and still do not think he did anything wrong...in line, or out the door. Spokane PD is very very ill when some still think beating a person to death for IMHO, at the absolute most, contempt of cop. is a proper police responce.
Otto Zehm was purchasing a bottle of pop, and wanted to get a twinky snack, he was downs, and looked it. Is that a reason to beat a guy to death. One of the other SPD stated that Otto Zehm showed "no respect"...and I suppose he was also one of those that thought that was reason enough to beat Otto to death...sick.
MikeTheGreek
Regular Member
I will be buying a suppressor when I buy a threaded barrel for the gun I keep for home defense. Not to be cool, or because I've seen too many movies. Only because if I have to shoot someone who's breaking into my home (and most likely in a small room), I'd prefer to not damage my hearing while doing it.
Now...in MI you can actually carry a suppressed weapon with the proper paperwork. This...I believe is idiotic and should not be done, ever.
SurpriseOpenCarryClub
New member
I have a couple of points....
If someone points a gun at me, Im going to shoot back.
If i was a cop and someone points a gun at me Im going to shoot back.
Why? Because i like my life too much to risk seeing what they are going to do.
If you point a gun expect consequences. Duhh
If i was a cop on the scene of a b and e, you better believe Im going to handcuff anyone that might be a threat til the situation is calm.
This is not an attack on your rights, its for everyones safety.
YOU may have perfect self control is stressful situations but most don't and put themselves and cops in danger. That why they get cuffed.
How are the police supposed to protect and serve if you take all their teeth away? What would you say to a widow that lost her husband because he waited forever to see a bad guys intentions? You scream responsibility from the police, why are you not screaming for responsibility from citizens? Citizenship does not make people perfect in deed or actions
If someone points a gun at me, Im going to shoot back.
If i was a cop and someone points a gun at me Im going to shoot back.
Why? Because i like my life too much to risk seeing what they are going to do.
If you point a gun expect consequences. Duhh
If i was a cop on the scene of a b and e, you better believe Im going to handcuff anyone that might be a threat til the situation is calm.
This is not an attack on your rights, its for everyones safety.
YOU may have perfect self control is stressful situations but most don't and put themselves and cops in danger. That why they get cuffed.
How are the police supposed to protect and serve if you take all their teeth away? What would you say to a widow that lost her husband because he waited forever to see a bad guys intentions? You scream responsibility from the police, why are you not screaming for responsibility from citizens? Citizenship does not make people perfect in deed or actions
moonie
Regular Member
/me gets out the popcorn...
Please go read Warren v. District of Columbia and tell me more of this protect that you speak of.