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Thread: So my 8 weeks are about to up...

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    So my 8 weeks are about to up...

    My 8 weeks are about to be up (Oct. 16th to be exact) and I have applied for my permit in Waterbury and they told me 14-16 weeks. After reading a lot of the posts in this forum it seems to me the consensus is that I start the appeal process when my 8 weeks come up. What I would like to know is what exactly is the process and what form/information do I need and how should I prepare? Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

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    This depends .. how do you want to play the game ...

    You can go to the board's website ... they want a letter and then they'll send you a questionnaire. And they send a questionnaire to the issuing authority. Most of the ? in the questionnaires are not mandatory and are irrelevant.

    The process will take about 6 mo to 9 mo for the appeal to the board.

    Do you own a handgun now? This opens up another argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    This depends .. how do you want to play the game ...

    You can go to the board's website ... they want a letter and then they'll send you a questionnaire. And they send a questionnaire to the issuing authority. Most of the ? in the questionnaires are not mandatory and are irrelevant.

    The process will take about 6 mo to 9 mo for the appeal to the board.

    Do you own a handgun now? This opens up another argument.
    No I do not own a handgun now; I was waiting until I got my permit so I can buy one. Out of curiosity what do you mean by "how do I want to play the game"? I like how you refer to it as a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    No I do not own a handgun now; I was waiting until I got my permit so I can buy one. Out of curiosity what do you mean by "how do I want to play the game"? I like how you refer to it as a game.
    Well, the questionnaire that they provide you to complete (you can find it at their website ... http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=3291&Q=419136) the board is certainly playing games... why do they need to know: your employer , your DMV record, your arrest record etc..

    So, how do you want to play the game? The ask many questions that are simply not relevant and ones that can actually cause you harm. The employer one is especially disturbing .. they can contact your employer and tell them you are seeking a permit; your employer is free to terminate you for this reason.

    According to Connecticut administrative law:
    Sec. 4-178. Contested cases. Evidence. In contested cases: (1) Any oral or documentary evidence may be received, but the agency shall, as a matter of policy, provide for the exclusion of irrelevant, immaterial or unduly repetitious evidence; (2) agencies shall give effect to the rules of privilege recognized by law; (3) when a hearing will be expedited and the interests of the parties will not be prejudiced substantially, any part of the evidence may be received in written form; (4) documentary evidence may be received in the form of copies or excerpts, if the original is not readily available, and upon request, parties and the agency conducting the proceeding shall be given an opportunity to compare the copy with the original; (5) a party and such agency may conduct cross-examinations required for a full and true disclosure of the facts; (6) notice may be taken of judicially cognizable facts and of generally recognized technical or scientific facts within the agency's specialized knowledge; (7) parties shall be notified in a timely manner of any material noticed, including any agency memoranda or data, and they shall be afforded an opportunity to contest the material so noticed; and (8) the agency's experience, technical competence, and specialized knowledge may be used in the evaluation of the evidence.

    Are you willing to object to irrelevant questions? Your arrests and DMV record is not relevant as they do not mean anything to your gun rights. But if you do answer and miss a ticket, then you'll be found ineligible due to lying on the form. So, the "game" is the protection of your rights; you willing to fight for them or do you wish to just provide them whatever information they ask from you?
    Your employer may not terminate you, I am not trying to scare you but it is a possibility - some employers are anti-gun to this point. I have had employers ask me if I owned guns

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    After reading a lot of the posts in this forum it seems to me the consensus is that I start the appeal process when my 8 weeks come up.
    You should not be waiting until 8 weeks are up.

    The local issuing authority has 5 days to send your prints to SPBI and 1 week to issue or deny your permit upon receiving your background check. Anything outside of that timeline should be appealed.

    Get your dates from SPBI and appeal.

    http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?...54192&bfpeNav=
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, the questionnaire that they provide you to complete (you can find it at their website ... http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=3291&Q=419136) the board is certainly playing games... why do they need to know: your employer , your DMV record, your arrest record etc..

    So, how do you want to play the game? The ask many questions that are simply not relevant and ones that can actually cause you harm. The employer one is especially disturbing .. they can contact your employer and tell them you are seeking a permit; your employer is free to terminate you for this reason.

    According to Connecticut administrative law:
    Sec. 4-178. Contested cases. Evidence. In contested cases: (1) Any oral or documentary evidence may be received, but the agency shall, as a matter of policy, provide for the exclusion of irrelevant, immaterial or unduly repetitious evidence; (2) agencies shall give effect to the rules of privilege recognized by law; (3) when a hearing will be expedited and the interests of the parties will not be prejudiced substantially, any part of the evidence may be received in written form; (4) documentary evidence may be received in the form of copies or excerpts, if the original is not readily available, and upon request, parties and the agency conducting the proceeding shall be given an opportunity to compare the copy with the original; (5) a party and such agency may conduct cross-examinations required for a full and true disclosure of the facts; (6) notice may be taken of judicially cognizable facts and of generally recognized technical or scientific facts within the agency's specialized knowledge; (7) parties shall be notified in a timely manner of any material noticed, including any agency memoranda or data, and they shall be afforded an opportunity to contest the material so noticed; and (8) the agency's experience, technical competence, and specialized knowledge may be used in the evaluation of the evidence.

    Are you willing to object to irrelevant questions? Your arrests and DMV record is not relevant as they do not mean anything to your gun rights. But if you do answer and miss a ticket, then you'll be found ineligible due to lying on the form. So, the "game" is the protection of your rights; you willing to fight for them or do you wish to just provide them whatever information they ask from you?
    Your employer may not terminate you, I am not trying to scare you but it is a possibility - some employers are anti-gun to this point. I have had employers ask me if I owned guns
    I'm not too concerned with my employer being questioned seeing as I work for the Marlin Company which was the gun company until they sold the name a few years ago. Now in order to appeal do I need to fill everything out like the DMV record (which I don't even know how to get). I've never been arrested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You should not be waiting until 8 weeks are up.

    The local issuing authority has 5 days to send your prints to SPBI and 1 week to issue or deny your permit upon receiving your background check. Anything outside of that timeline should be appealed.

    Get your dates from SPBI and appeal.

    http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?...54192&bfpeNav=
    Now Rich can I even get my dates from SPBI without my receipt from the money order (which I now know I should have kept)? The receipt from the local PD for the fingerprinting was a torn half piece of paper with the date, what I had done, and how much I paid; no sort of receipt number or anything on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    Now Rich can I even get my dates from SPBI without my receipt from the money order (which I now know I should have kept)? The receipt from the local PD for the fingerprinting was a torn half piece of paper with the date, what I had done, and how much I paid; no sort of receipt number or anything on it.
    Yes, you can get it without the money order receipt, but you will not be their favorite person of the day. Just explain that you don't have it and ask how else you can go about it. I know they have helped other people without it.

    Call them and ask for 'records'. The best number I have is: (860) 685-8250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    I'm not too concerned with my employer being questioned seeing as I work for the Marlin Company which was the gun company until they sold the name a few years ago. Now in order to appeal do I need to fill everything out like the DMV record (which I don't even know how to get). I've never been arrested.
    .
    You do not need to fill out that page at all. I objected to the completion of that page (arrest and DMV record) and my objection was sustained - they accepted it w/o this being completed.

    Your objecting will not slow your appeal down.

    IF you wish to get your record from DMV; simply attach it with an annotation on the last page of the questionnaire: attached is a copy of my DMV record for the time period of X to Y obtained from DMV; its as accurate a record as DMV can produce. DMV stated that they cannot produce are records before time Y and I have no records of any further MV related issues. Therefore, the records attached may not be a complete record of MV history but it is the best available record.

    I think you would crazy not to object though to many of the questions. The more information you provide, the more mud they can sling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Yes, you can get it without the money order receipt, but you will not be their favorite person of the day. Just explain that you don't have it and ask how else you can go about it. I know they have helped other people without it.

    Call them and ask for 'records'. The best number I have is: (860) 685-8250
    Rich, I called SPBI today at the number you gave me. I asked for records and was transferred. I asked this person about getting some dates and she said I need to wait because it will take a long time; 2-3 months and I need to be patient. I then stated when I completed the application and that I just wanted to know who's hands it was in now at least and she said it's at the FBI and they're being strict and it isn't easy to get a permit and they don't give them to just anyone. She then told me to call back next week and she would transfer me to someone else then. Now when she gave what little information she did it wasn't as if she looked up anything. She did ask my name and I gave her my first name and again she told me to call sometime next week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    Rich, I called SPBI today at the number you gave me. I asked for records and was transferred. I asked this person about getting some dates and she said I need to wait because it will take a long time; 2-3 months and I need to be patient. I then stated when I completed the application and that I just wanted to know who's hands it was in now at least and she said it's at the FBI and they're being strict and it isn't easy to get a permit and they don't give them to just anyone. She then told me to call back next week and she would transfer me to someone else then. Now when she gave what little information she did it wasn't as if she looked up anything. She did ask my name and I gave her my first name and again she told me to call sometime next week.
    Nothing she said is true. Call back and try to get someone else.

    No background checks are taking 2-3 months, the FBI check is a 100% automated computer system that returns results in less than 48 hours.

    Welcome to the world of dealing with public sector employees who want to get you off the phone instead of doing their job.

    Try this number as well:

    Connecticut State Police
    1111 Country Club Road
    Middletown, CT 06457
    Telephone: 860-685-8190

    I can't figure out the pattern, it all seems to be luck of the draw of who you get stuck with whether they want to do their job or not. Always get names so we can see who is causing problems and who is not.
    Last edited by Rich B; 10-01-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Nothing she said is true. Call back and try to get someone else.

    No background checks are taking 2-3 months, the FBI check is a 100% automated computer system that returns results in less than 48 hours.

    Welcome to the world of dealing with public sector employees who want to get you off the phone instead of doing their job.

    Try this number as well:

    Connecticut State Police
    1111 Country Club Road
    Middletown, CT 06457
    Telephone: 860-685-8190

    I can't figure out the pattern, it all seems to be luck of the draw of who you get stuck with whether they want to do their job or not. Always get names so we can see who is causing problems and who is not.
    Looks like it will have to be tomorrow seeing as it's after 4. Is there a certain wait I should approach them to get a more definitive answer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    Looks like it will have to be tomorrow seeing as it's after 4. Is there a certain wait I should approach them to get a more definitive answer?
    I would just tell them you are calling to request the date that a background check was returned. They will almost definitely ask what the check was for (I have no idea why this matters to them), obviously tell them a pistol permit.

    If they try to tell you the 2-3 month line or anything else but the date, you need to tell them you need to be transferred to someone who can get you the information. Ask to speak to their supervisor if necessary.



    We are working on this mess, but it is not going to be fixed for sometime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I would just tell them you are calling to request the date that a background check was returned. They will almost definitely ask what the check was for (I have no idea why this matters to them), obviously tell them a pistol permit.

    If they try to tell you the 2-3 month line or anything else but the date, you need to tell them you need to be transferred to someone who can get you the information. Ask to speak to their supervisor if necessary.



    We are working on this mess, but it is not going to be fixed for sometime.
    Thank you Rich. I will try that method tomorrow and will let you know how it goes; that is if you'd like me to keep you updated. I will also be sure to get the names of who I speak with. The woman I did speak with kind of gave me the impression that they were changing the background check process, I'm probably wrong but that's how it came across.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    The woman I did speak with kind of gave me the impression that they were changing the background check process, I'm probably wrong but that's how it came across.
    I doubt it, but they do have a lot of turnover in leadership and legal affairs over there...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    No background checks are taking 2-3 months, the FBI check is a 100% automated computer system that returns results in less than 48 hours.

    Welcome to the world of dealing with public sector employees who want to get you off the phone instead of doing their job.

    Try this number as well:

    Connecticut State Police
    1111 Country Club Road
    Middletown, CT 06457
    Telephone: 860-685-8190

    I can't figure out the pattern, it all seems to be luck of the draw of who you get stuck with whether they want to do their job or not. Always get names so we can see who is causing problems and who is not.
    as of oct. 1, 2012 its my second week of waiting, should i call state police to check on my background check before i call my local pd for the status?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clawed View Post
    as of oct. 1, 2012 its my second week of waiting, should i call state police to check on my background check before i call my local pd for the status?
    You can either or. The state will need to tell you the status of your background checks (if the money orders have been cashed, that is a good sign they are processed). The local PD will likely tell you nothing or lie.
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    Here is 1 pg of the questionnaire as I completed it ... and I included a set of objections ...

    all queries were met with OBJ = objection

    I'll have to delete the attachment soon ... limited space on forum

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    Rich and I both advised one of my students to contact SPBI and start his appeal, he reported back to me today and provided me with this number for SPBI 860-685-8480 he stated this is the direct line to the office you need...
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    Rich and I both advised one of my students to contact SPBI and start his appeal, he reported back to me today and provided me with this number for SPBI 860-685-8480 he stated this is the direct line to the office you need...
    Excellent. I have been trying to track down the correct number.... Lets hope this one keeps working.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You do not need to fill out that page at all. I objected to the completion of that page (arrest and DMV record) and my objection was sustained - they accepted it w/o this being completed.

    Your objecting will not slow your appeal down.

    IF you wish to get your record from DMV; simply attach it with an annotation on the last page of the questionnaire: attached is a copy of my DMV record for the time period of X to Y obtained from DMV; its as accurate a record as DMV can produce. DMV stated that they cannot produce are records before time Y and I have no records of any further MV related issues. Therefore, the records attached may not be a complete record of MV history but it is the best available record.

    I think you would crazy not to object though to many of the questions. The more information you provide, the more mud they can sling.
    Now the only thing I'm concerned about is the fact that I know I cannot afford an attorney. Should I still file the appeal and worry about it when the time comes or what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    Now the only thing I'm concerned about is the fact that I know I cannot afford an attorney. Should I still file the appeal and worry about it when the time comes or what?
    Why would you need an attorney for an appeal in front of the BFPE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    number for SPBI 860-685-8480 he stated this is the direct line to the office you need...
    Thanks for the number, I will have to try that one tomorrow. Now that is the number for the background check dates correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Why would you need an attorney for an appeal in front of the BFPE?
    Oh, wow yea. For some reason I assumed that I would. I think I was looking at it as a kind of court hearing; I certainly feel silly now. My work days are quite long; I'm still at work as I write this reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    Oh, wow yea. For some reason I assumed that I would. I think I was looking at it as a kind of court hearing; I certainly feel silly now. My work days are quite long; I'm still at work as I write this reply.
    It is a 'civilian review board' and while it is an official hearing, they play pretty loose with the hearing format and will help explain things to you as you go.

    People bring attorneys, but usually for more complex issues like revocations for criminal charges. A denial based on delay is pretty simple and straightforward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight240z View Post
    Thanks for the number, I will have to try that one tomorrow. Now that is the number for the background check dates correct?
    Yes, one of my students emailed it to me and he stated it is the direct line to the department that answered the "dates question" for him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    It is a 'civilian review board' and while it is an official hearing, they play pretty loose with the hearing format and will help explain things to you as you go.

    People bring attorneys, but usually for more complex issues like revocations for criminal charges. A denial based on delay is pretty simple and straightforward.
    The procedures for the hearing are governed by Chap. 54 of CGS, Section 29-32a of CGS, and due process rights under state and federal constitutions.

    IMO the board behaves outside the scope of their authority vested to them by the legislature. They allow opposing parties to send witnesses w/o actual representation and allow witnesses to conduct the issuing authorities' pleadings. I have not seen opposing parties file appearances and the board does not act impartially, acting on behalf of non-appearing parties. The board makes irrelevant inquires of citizens and some are just meant to harass a litigant.

    Under 29-32b:
    ....
    (b) Any person aggrieved by any refusal to issue or renew a permit or certificate under the provisions of section 29-28 or 29-36f, or by any limitation or revocation of a permit or certificate issued under any of said sections, or by a refusal or failure of any issuing authority to furnish an application as provided in section 29-28a, may, within ninety days after receipt of notice of such refusal, limitation or revocation, or refusal or failure to supply an application as provided in section 29-28a, and without prejudice to any other course of action open to such person in law or in equity, appeal to the board. On such appeal the board shall inquire into and determine the facts, de novo, and unless it finds that such a refusal, limitation or revocation, or such refusal or failure to supply an application, as the case may be, would be for just and proper cause, it shall order such permit or certificate to be issued, renewed or restored, or the limitation removed or modified, as the case may be. If the refusal was for failure to document compliance with local zoning requirements, under subsection (a) of section 29-28, the board shall not issue a permit.

    Its basically a show cause hearing where the opposing party must provide evidence supporting a good reason for a denial. The board IMO takes it upon themselves to conduct themselves as if they are the opposing part.

    And they do not follow the procedures of the hearing in accordance with Chapter 54 of our statues. Chapter 54 is the main guide for the hearing processes. While hearsay can be allowed, hearsay evidence or testimony that is prejudicial is not allowed.

    A citizen is best to say as little as possible, only to state that he is eligible to purchase a firearm, has full gun rights, and submitted a proper application for the permit process and was unlawfully denied a permit.

    The board is on a fishing expedition for the most part and it loses its impartiality or appearance of impartiality and this is in violation of the law. If asked any question one should check to see if it is an appropriate question to ask and object if desired. The best answer to most of the questions put is: I will handle and carry in accordance with the body of law that governs such activity.

    The process is quite simple: the appellant presents his facts & the opposing party can cross the witnesses; then the opposing party presents their witnesses and you get to object to their questions and cross them (and you should - asking many background questions to highlight the fact that the witnesses are not experts).

    The goal is to minimize the testimony brought forth that will allow good cause to be shown. And a litigant can effect this greatly if they know how to...allowing a very lackadaisical defense of your rights could very well effect the outcome.

    Just MO of course.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-03-2012 at 02:37 AM.

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