Rich B
Regular Member
Why would you need an attorney for an appeal in front of the BFPE?
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So my 8 weeks are about to up...
- Thread starter Haight240z
- Start date
Why would you need an attorney for an appeal in front of the BFPE?
Haight240z
Regular Member
Thanks for the number, I will have to try that one tomorrow. Now that is the number for the background check dates correct?
Oh, wow yea. For some reason I assumed that I would. I think I was looking at it as a kind of court hearing; I certainly feel silly now. My work days are quite long; I'm still at work as I write this reply.
Rich B
Regular Member
It is a 'civilian review board' and while it is an official hearing, they play pretty loose with the hearing format and will help explain things to you as you go.
People bring attorneys, but usually for more complex issues like revocations for criminal charges. A denial based on delay is pretty simple and straightforward.
brk913
Regular Member
Yes, one of my students emailed it to me and he stated it is the direct line to the department that answered the "dates question" for him.
davidmcbeth
Banned
The procedures for the hearing are governed by Chap. 54 of CGS, Section 29-32a of CGS, and due process rights under state and federal constitutions.
IMO the board behaves outside the scope of their authority vested to them by the legislature. They allow opposing parties to send witnesses w/o actual representation and allow witnesses to conduct the issuing authorities' pleadings. I have not seen opposing parties file appearances and the board does not act impartially, acting on behalf of non-appearing parties. The board makes irrelevant inquires of citizens and some are just meant to harass a litigant.
Under 29-32b:
....
(b) Any person aggrieved by any refusal to issue or renew a permit or certificate under the provisions of section 29-28 or 29-36f, or by any limitation or revocation of a permit or certificate issued under any of said sections, or by a refusal or failure of any issuing authority to furnish an application as provided in section 29-28a, may, within ninety days after receipt of notice of such refusal, limitation or revocation, or refusal or failure to supply an application as provided in section 29-28a, and without prejudice to any other course of action open to such person in law or in equity, appeal to the board. On such appeal the board shall inquire into and determine the facts, de novo, and unless it finds that such a refusal, limitation or revocation, or such refusal or failure to supply an application, as the case may be, would be for just and proper cause, it shall order such permit or certificate to be issued, renewed or restored, or the limitation removed or modified, as the case may be. If the refusal was for failure to document compliance with local zoning requirements, under subsection (a) of section 29-28, the board shall not issue a permit.
Its basically a show cause hearing where the opposing party must provide evidence supporting a good reason for a denial. The board IMO takes it upon themselves to conduct themselves as if they are the opposing part.
And they do not follow the procedures of the hearing in accordance with Chapter 54 of our statues. Chapter 54 is the main guide for the hearing processes. While hearsay can be allowed, hearsay evidence or testimony that is prejudicial is not allowed.
A citizen is best to say as little as possible, only to state that he is eligible to purchase a firearm, has full gun rights, and submitted a proper application for the permit process and was unlawfully denied a permit.
The board is on a fishing expedition for the most part and it loses its impartiality or appearance of impartiality and this is in violation of the law. If asked any question one should check to see if it is an appropriate question to ask and object if desired. The best answer to most of the questions put is: I will handle and carry in accordance with the body of law that governs such activity.
The process is quite simple: the appellant presents his facts & the opposing party can cross the witnesses; then the opposing party presents their witnesses and you get to object to their questions and cross them (and you should - asking many background questions to highlight the fact that the witnesses are not experts).
The goal is to minimize the testimony brought forth that will allow good cause to be shown. And a litigant can effect this greatly if they know how to...allowing a very lackadaisical defense of your rights could very well effect the outcome.
Just MO of course.
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Haight240z
Regular Member
I finally got someone at the SPBI that could tell me when my background check was completed/sent back to WPD thanks to the phone number provided above. They said it was completed on 9-12. I called the local PD and they said they're doing their background investigation and to not be surprised if I receive a call from them to "discuss" the results of the investigation and after that they have to send it to the superintendent for "final approval".
Rich B
Regular Member
So then you are two weeks late to appeal. I would recommend you get the appeal sent in right away.
brk913
Regular Member
As Rich said, by CGS they should have provided you with your temp permit or a denial by September 19th (7 days after they get the results back), if the town wanted to conduct an additional check on you they should have done it while waiting for the national and state checks to come back...file that appeal right away, you can always cancel it if they issue your permit....
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Haight240z
Regular Member
Wouldn't the background investigation be "a reasonable reason for the delay" or am I suppose to send it in regardless?
Rich B
Regular Member
Let them try to explain and justify that in front of the board. They have a duty under CGS 29-29 to issue or deny within 'one week' of receiving the background checks. They had at least a week before that as well to also conduct their investigation. What exactly do you believe they are doing other than reviewing the state and federal background checks? If they could ignore the law because they claim to still be investigating they could just never issue.
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Haight240z
Regular Member
They did tell me when I first submitted my application with the character references that they would be following up and calling those people and questioning them. That's what I assume they are doing now that I made it through the background checks. Which I can see I am probably wrong about.
Rich B
Regular Member
Well that is their burden that they are adding upon themselves to the process. It is of no concern to you and it does not absolve them from the statutory requirements. This is another example of why it is a bad idea to submit character references BTW.
Why would they wait? Why wouldn't they have done that on day one of the application?
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Haight240z
Regular Member
I'm sorry if the question was rhetorical; but I would think they'd wait because if I didn't make it through the state background check then they wouldn't waste their time doing their own investigation.
Rich B
Regular Member
They are wasting their time anyway, so why not waste it sooner than later? After all they have essentially a two week deadline to work around.
davidmcbeth
Banned
Its election time ... file the appeal and call up the first selectman !
Haight240z
Regular Member
Ok, I'm just about done filling out the Appellant questionnaire and I was wondering what I should put for question 18: "State here any additional facts which would support your case. State what you want the Board to do and why do you feel the Board should grant your request:"? I don't really need a direct answer; some suggestions/examples would help. I'm trying to get it sent out today.
Rich B
Regular Member
"The Connecticut General Statutes prescribe a rather strict timeline for the pistol permit process. This timeline is dictated by CGS 29-28a and CGS 29-29. The deadlines described in these statutes give my local issuing authority "5 days" from the date I submitted my complete application until they must submit my fingerprints to the State Police Bureau of Identification (SPBI). Once my national background check is received back from the SPBI, the local issuing authority has "one week" to issue an approval or denial in writing.
My local issuing authority has ignored CGS 29-29 and therefore is denying my right to possess and carry a firearm. I wish for the board to rectify this delay by ordering my permit to be issued at once since there is no reason to deny me my rights and there is no appropriate cause on the part of the police department to delay me my rights."
Haight240z
Regular Member
Thank you Rich. Also questions 15-17 ask the reason, date, and how I learned of/notified of the denial or revocation. How should I answer seeing as I wasn't denied one or had one revoked; or is that what I should put?
Rich B
Regular Member
You were denied. You were denied based on the deadlines in CGS 29-29 not being met.
davidmcbeth
Banned
Its nice that they have this section. But without a reason for a denial in which you would have to mount an affirmative defense (like the records obtained by the issuing authority are inaccurate) you need not complete this section.
Its a show cause hearing .. ie the issuing authority must show why they appropriately can deny you a permit. You need not prove anything.
So, the more information you give them, the more information they can use against you. For example, the employer ?. The issuing authority calls up your employer and they state that they do not think you should have a gun at all and give some inane reason why. Well, you gave them the employer information when you do not have to ...
Before sending in the questionnaire, look at the question and your answer and imagine how information could be gathered, gained, or interpreted not only from the answer itself but any followup to that answer by the issuing authority could be used against you. And every answer has this real possibility that the Q & A may result in negative information.
And in the hearing, if a question is asked of you, you have the right to object to it.
The less information they know the better it is for you. And you have to understand that YOU are an interested party so your testimony positive to getting a permit will be seen in a questionable light whereas answers negative in your responses will be looked at as being solid answers.
IMO you should object to most of the questions posed...and get a ruling that would then limit the questions you need to answer.
If you go and visit and observe permit hearings you can listen and say "hey, that guy should have objected to that question". I have seen lawyers that appear before the board and let their clients answer questions that are irrelevant. And the hearing ends up being a wild wild west show.