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Thread: open carry bad encounter leo

  1. #1
    Regular Member nathan928's Avatar
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    open carry bad encounter leo

    well while i was walking to get a pack of smokes just a few mins ago and ran into a leo..i walked into the store and purchased my ciggarets and as im walking out he flags me down..as im walking t words him he proceeds to get out of his car and starts questioning me as to what im doing where im going and where im coming from.im polite tell him and ask what the problem was.he then begins to tell me that they had gotten a call of a man walking down the street with a gun and looks suspicious??anyways he asked for my id i said no i didn't commit a crime we hassle on that for a moment then says im going to perform a check on your weapon and make sure its not loaded he checks it, its loaded then asked me why is your gun loaded? i proceed to say that its the only way it works.bye this time there are 6 cops surrounding me.he then begins to tell me its against the law for me to carry a loaded mag in the magwell that it has to be in my pocket or the pouch designated on my holster.he then said he could place me under arrest for reckless handling of a fire arm, but cut me a break. anyways after all that i proceeded to walk home.anyways my question is is it against the law for me to open carry my firearm while loaded but not one in the chamber??im 20yrs old and to my understanding in the great state of ARIZONA im aloud to opencarry at the age of 18.was i in the wrong? canny anybody just answer this question about me carrying a loaded firearm at the age of 20..well that got my adrenalin pumping!! all and any reply's are helpful!
    Last edited by nathan928; 10-01-2012 at 02:22 AM.

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    That LEO was upset with you because you didn't use spell check.

  3. #3
    Regular Member nathan928's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    That LEO was upset with you because you didn't use spell check.
    come on i don't need stupid answers like that

  4. #4
    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Sounds like you ran into a transplant from CA. I'll let others who are more familiar with AZ law than I am answer your questions, though. Glad you made it home safe and unperforated.

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathan928 View Post
    come on i don't need stupid answers like that


    I actually LOL'd... but you know, on a board like this, people will lend your story much more credibility if you take the time to express yourself in a way that doesn't distract from your message.

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    Regular Member pfries's Avatar
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    I am sure others more tuned in tune with AZ laws will be able to cover this more in depth as I have not research AZ in a while.

    I do need to get back for a visit.

    State preemption should apply with your situation. A little research on your part can go a long way,

    a simple misunderstanding of the law in certain circumstance can cost one quite a bit in legal fees and their gun rights in some states.

    Don’t just stay safe, stay informed.


    13-3108. Firearms regulated by state; state preemption; violation; classification; definition

    A. Except as provided in subsection F of this section,

    a political subdivision of this state shall not enact any ordinance, rule or tax relating to

    the transportation, possession, carrying, sale, transfer, purchase, acquisition, gift, devise, storage,

    licensing, registration, discharge or use of firearms or ammunition or any firearm or ammunition components or related accessories in this state.
    Last edited by pfries; 10-01-2012 at 01:57 AM.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathan928 View Post
    f u people
    What was that all about?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  8. #8
    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Well, seeing how the OP deleted his post and replaced it with an epithet, I'm not only doubting his story, but now questioning whether he has the maturity level needed to safely and responsibly carry a firearm. OP, if you return to read this, please understand that it takes more than a firearm and a holster to be a good advocate for the lawful carry of a firearm. Also understand that we get a metric crapload of people coming here with fantastic stories, and many of them exit exactly as you did when asked about the incident.

    Peace out.

  9. #9
    Regular Member nathan928's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    What was that all about?
    i was asking a serious question and all i got back was smart remarks i was trying to delete it but idk how soo i guess it stays

  10. #10
    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Original post:

    well while i was walking to get a pack of smokes just a few mins ago and ran into a leo..i walked into the store and purchased my ciggarets and as im walking out he flags me down..as im walking t words him he proceeds to get out of his car and starts questioning me as to what im doing where im going and where im coming from.im polite tell him and ask what the problem was.he then begins to tell me that they had gotten a call of a man walking down the street with a gun and looks suspicious??anyways he asked for my id i said no i didn't commit a crime we hassle on that for a moment then says im going to perform a check on your weapon and make sure its not loaded he checks it, its loaded then asked me why is your gun loaded? i proceed to say that its the only way it works.bye this time there are 6 cops surrounding me.he then begins to tell me its against the law for me to carry a loaded mag in the magwell that it has to be in my pocket or the pouch designated on my holster.he then said he could place me under arrest for reckless handling of a fire arm, but cut me a break. anyways after all that i proceeded to walk home.anyways my question is is it against the law for me to open carry my firearm while loaded but not one in the chamber??im 20yrs old and to my understanding in the great state of ARIZONA im aloud to opencarry at the age of 18.was i in the wrong? canny anybody just answer this question about me carrying a loaded firearm at the age of 20..well that got my adrenalin pumping!! all and any reply's are helpful!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathan928 View Post
    im 20yrs old and to my understanding in the great state of ARIZONA im aloud to opencarry at the age of 18.was i in the wrong? !
    I can answer this one without any knowldge of AZ law. They allowed you to leave; hence you can.

    The cops asked you their standard 20 questions it looks like. Should have just answered: I'll answer any of your questions in court.

    Then mosey on down the road.

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    Regular Member pfries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    Well, seeing how the OP deleted his post and replaced it with an epithet, I'm not only doubting his story, but now questioning whether he has the maturity level needed to safely and responsibly carry a firearm. OP, if you return to read this, please understand that it takes more than a firearm and a holster to be a good advocate for the lawful carry of a firearm. Also understand that we get a metric crapload of people coming here with fantastic stories, and many of them exit exactly as you did when asked about the incident.

    Peace out.


    I for one would not call his story “fantastic”; it was a mild encounter with a less than informed officer.

    He came asking for clarification on the laws. Knowing them on the front end would have been ideal, and it appears he was aware of them;

    however some officers will impose their own views/beliefs of the law. If you couple that with the average person, intimidation factor,

    and stress of the encounter I can appreciate how someone could and very well would second guess their understanding of state statutes.

    Looking for clarification is the mature and adult way to handle it.

    The quantity of responding units stated in his original post would be the only piece I would personally question,

    and under the stress of a given situation such as first LEO encounter, many people do not recount all details accurately, it is human nature.

    When the opposing force has control the mind has a tendency to spin a perception that meets a level of justification of the perceived threat.

    Ask the teen who jumped off the cliff into the water how high it was etc.
    Last edited by pfries; 10-01-2012 at 02:53 AM.

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    Regular Member nathan928's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfries View Post
    I for one would not call his story “fantastic”; it was a mild encounter with a less than informed officer.

    He came asking for clarification on the laws. Knowing them on the front end would have been ideal, and it appears he was aware of them;

    however some officers will impose their own views/beliefs of the law. If you couple that with the average person, intimidation factor,

    and stress of the encounter I can appreciate how someone could and very well would second guess their understanding of state statutes.

    Looking for clarification is the mature and adult way to handle it.

    The quantity of responding units stated in his original post would be the only piece I would personally question,

    and under the stress of a given situation such as first LEO encounter, many people do recount all details accurately, it is human nature.

    When the opposing force has control the mind has a tendency to spin a perception that meets a level of justification of the perceived threat.

    Ask the teen who jumped off the cliff into the water how high it was etc.
    thanks buddie i was just making a long story short i figured i didn't need to put every last detail.
    Last edited by nathan928; 10-01-2012 at 02:50 AM.

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    Regular Member nathan928's Avatar
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    pretty much i was just wondering if i was in the wrong carrying a loaded firearm,and if the true meaning of open carry meant carrying my firearm in public not loaded..

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathan928 View Post
    the true meaning of open carry meant carrying my firearm in public not loaded..
    Carrying loaded or not is carrying. I suggest you hit a law book instead of an internet forum of you want to know for sure....

    Want to learn how to handle yourself with policemen? That's a personal decision for the most part.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
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    open carry bad encounter leo

    Nathan. AZ has constitutional carry. Meaning its legal to open or conceal carry with no permit and loaded.. The cop like others have said sounds like a transplant from ca. Good luck and take a look at this vid:
    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6wXkI...%3D6wXkI4t7nuc

  17. #17
    Regular Member Contrarian's Avatar
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    Ill-informed cop

    This forum is a wealth of good information, including reams of law references...browse and print those that apply to police interactions and open carry.

    Knowledge is one of the only advantages we have.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "...he then said he could place me under arrest for reckless handling of a fire arm, but cut me a break..."
    I'd have Insisted that Officer Friendly not "cut me any breaks" or I'd report him for malfeasance. I suspect that 90.7% of the time, "I'll cut you a break, This Time" and "my Supervisor would Insist I arrest you, but I'mma gonna be nice" is just Officer Friendly trying to intimidate someone because what they are doing isn't Actually Illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I'd have Insisted that Officer Friendly not "cut me any breaks" or I'd report him for malfeasance. I suspect that 90.7% of the time, "I'll cut you a break, This Time" and "my Supervisor would Insist I arrest you, but I'mma gonna be nice" is just Officer Friendly trying to intimidate someone because what they are doing isn't Actually Illegal.
    +1 The cop was bluffing. He knew it was an illegal weapon seizure. Another example is the traffic-stop cop who tells you he clocked you at 18 MPH over the speed limit when you were actually only doing 5 over. He picks a number that will scare you so you later feel grateful when he lets you off with a warning. Of course, he didn't pick 20MPH over the speed limit because in some states that's reckless driving and he might have to arrest you. I got $5 that says the OPs encounter was a fishing expedition.

    A person "looks suspicious" walking down the street? Give me a break. That was either a total lie or a total excuse. The police might have gotten a call. But, they know mere looks cannot be suspicious. There must be facts that justify reasonable suspicion, no hunches allowed. See Terry v Ohio and subsequent case law.

    These cops were fishing. And, if the OP report is complete and accurate, they violated the OP's rights by the weapon seizure and inspection.

    I urge a formal written complaint to the internal affairs commander of the department involved. Stick to the facts. Stick to the law. Show them you know the law on search and seizure so they have to tell themselves, "Oh, damn. Here is a citizen that really does know the law. Now we gotta be careful." Get it on paper to start a history.

    * You can access Terry v Ohio, and some videos on exercising your rights during a police encounter here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ources-Here!!&
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-01-2012 at 12:49 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    AZ is Constitutional Carry.
    A reference I like is www.handgunlaw.us Click on a state to open a PDF of laws, which also has links to the state's own website(s) so you can verify the information.
    Always verify. In fact, one of the forum rules is to cite to authority. That makes it easier for other people to learn & understand, and shows that the info isn't from some teenager sitting in his basement spewing feces.

    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan
    people will lend your story much more credibility if you take the time to express yourself in a way that doesn't distract from your message.
    What they said. Works in pretty much every situation.
    Texting or talking with peers, maybe your original approach works fine.
    Time, place, situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan
    now questioning whether he has the maturity level needed to safely and responsibly carry a firearm.
    ...Also understand that we get a metric crapload of people coming here with fantastic stories
    +1 on both of these.
    Can't be hotheaded if you're armed, or you're on the fast track to losing your freedom & rights because you've hurt someone you shouldn't have.
    And there have been LOTS of trolls who come in with creative writing, then disappear.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    So, rather than speculate what Arizona law frowns on, check on it here:

    13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

    http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03102.htm

    Some of the best sources of support you could ever find have stepped forth in this thread to help you. Listen to them.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  22. #22
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    To the suspicious folks,

    Yes, we get a certain percentage of invented tales, but so what?

    If nothing else we can treat the OP report as genuine and use it as an exercise in search and seizure analysis. Even if an OP is invented, newer members can learn from the search and seizure analysis.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    here's opinion from an Arizona attorney:

    http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...-gun-laws.html

    I'm not offering it as Gospel. I'm offering it as a reference, and possibly food for thought. The objective is to remove as much ignorance as possible, as quickly as possible, and replace that ignorance with useful tools.

    IMHO, anyways.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  24. #24
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathan928 View Post
    my question is is it against the law for me to open carry my firearm while loaded but not one in the chamber??im 20yrs old and to my understanding in the great state of ARIZONA im aloud to opencarry at the age of 18.was i in the wrong? canny anybody just answer this question about me carrying a loaded firearm at the age of 20..well that got my adrenalin pumping!! all and any reply's are helpful!
    There is no requirement in Arizona to carry an unloaded pistol. Like you said, what good is an empty gun. Under Arizona law, the condition of the firearm (unloaded, loaded, non-operating, etc.) is irrelevant - it is still a "weapon."

    The weapons "misconduct" laws, that show what is allowed for legal carry for the 18-20 crowd are in ARS 13-3102.B.3

    Aside from the cop probably being from California and acting like a dick, you may have added to his attittude if you have the prevalent costume of your age group with tattoos, piercings and the clothing of a vagrant. If you are under 21 and carrying a gun, I recommend always dressing and looking like Chatsworth Osbourne, Jr


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    In my five years of OC in Arizona, plus an additional several years of OC in Pennsylvania, I have never been approached by an LEO in response to my open display of a handgun. I guess the general public see's me as an old man with a handgun and that's fine with me.

    Sure, I've received a few "stink eye" recently from a tourist or two who wandered across the Colorado River and I recall one weepy eyed liberal who asked me if I had a "permit for that gun".

    I told him we don't need no steekin' permit in Arizona.

    I love it here.

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