Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Q&A about SB1733 - Open Carry in Oklahoma

  1. #1
    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Director, Oklahoma Open Carry Association
    Posts
    450

    Q&A about SB1733 - Open Carry in Oklahoma

    Q&A about SB1733 - Open Carry in Oklahoma

    Disclaimer: NONE OF THIS GOES INTO EFFECT UNTIL NOV 1, 2012. RELY ON EXISTING LAW AS FOUND IN O.S. TITLE 21 BEFORE NOVEMBER 1, 2012. We are not attorneys. (And we didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night) This information is provided only for informational purposes, and people who use this information are strongly encouraged to read applicable Oklahoma statutes, and to consult a practicing attorney with any questions. We are not responsible for any errors or omissions that may be contained herein (but it'd be great if you point them out, K?) All state statutes referenced herein can be found in O.S. Title 21. Words which are in "quotation marks" are directly copied from the referenced state statutes, but may be incomplete or out of context. You are encouraged to look up and read the applicable statues yourself and draw your own conclusions before choosing to carry a handgun in Oklahoma.

    1) Do I need a license to OC in Oklahoma? (Section 1290.8.A) In order to carry a handgun concealed or unconcealed in public, one will need to have a "Handgun License" from the OSBI, and valid state ID in their posession. (Section 1289.6.A.6) If you do not have a valid handgun license, you may "carry loaded or unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, open and not concealed" ... "For lawful self defense and self protection or any other legitimate purpose in or on the property that is owned, leased or rented or otherwise legally controlled by the person"

    2) I have a license issued by another state, can I open carry in Oklahoma?
    (Section 1290.26.) "Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed or unconcealed carry upon the authority and license of another state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed or unconcealed firearm and license in this state; provided the license from the other state remains valid. The firearm must either be carried unconcealed or concealed from detection and view."

    3) I already have a "Concealed Weapon License" issued by OSBI. Do I need to get a different license to OC?
    This is the same license (with the same requirements for background check and training) that was previously called a "Concealed Weapon License". Those who have a Concealed Weapons License may continue to carry openly or concealed until the expiration of their current license, and will receive a "Handgun License" upon renewal.

    4) What type of handgun can I carry?
    (Section 1290.2.C) Any derringer, revolver or semiautomatic firearm which has an overall length of less than sixteen (16) inches, is designed to be held and fired with one hand, is capable of discharging a projectile composed of any material which may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury, which uses either gunpowder, gas or any means of rocket propulsion to discharge the projectile, AND (Section 1290.6) is .45 caliber or smaller.

    5) How many handguns can I carry?
    It is our opinion that Oklahoma statutes do not specify or limit the number of concealed or unconcealed handguns that a licensee may carry.

    6) How may I carry my handgun? (Section 1290.2.A.1 and 2) You may carry a loaded or unloaded pistol EITHER:
    A) carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding as a passenger, (concealed carry)
    OR
    B)carried upon the person in a belt or shoulder holster that is wholly or partially visible, or carried upon the person in a scabbard or case designed for carrying firearms that is wholly or partially visible. (open carry)

    7) Can I be charged for disorderly conduct if someone is frightened or offended by my open carry of a handgun?
    (Section 1289.24.A.3) “As provided in the preemption provisions of this section, the otherwise lawful open carrying of a handgun under the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall not be punishable by any municipality or other political subdivision of this state as disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace or similar offense against public order.”

    8) Is a police officer allowed to check the serial number on my handgun to see if it is stolen or check to see if my handgun is safe or not?
    (Section 1290.8.E) "Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed or unconcealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed."

    9) Am I required to provide identification if I am stopped by a police officer? Can they take my handgun for "officer safety"?
    (Section 1290.8.B) "The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand."

    10) Am I required to notify a law enforcement officer that I am carrying a handgun?
    Yes, when you are the subject of an arrest, detention, or traffic stop. (Section 1290.8.C)"It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the first opportunity."

    11) What about city ordinances that may ban open carry?
    (Section 1289.24 A.1.) "Oklahoma has complete state preemption over laws and ordinances "touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance, or regulation by any municipality or other political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances, or regulations in this field, except as provided for in paragraph 2 of this subsection and subsection C of this section, are null and void."
    "A municipality may only adopt an ordinance:
    a. relating to the discharge of firearms within the jurisdiction of the municipality, and
    b. allowing the municipality to issue a traffic citation for transporting a firearm improperly as provided for in Section 1289.13A of O.S. title 21."

    12) What are the places that are prohibited to carry a handgun?
    It is HIGHLY recommended that you look up and read this section yourself. (Section 1277.A)
    "1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;"

    "2. Any meeting of any city, town, county, state or federal officials, school board members, legislative members, or any other elected or appointed officials;"

    "3. Any prison, jail, detention facility or any facility used to process, hold, or house arrested persons, prisoners or persons alleged delinquent or adjudicated delinquent;"

    "4. Any elementary or secondary school;" (Section 1280.1.)to include school bus and school vehicles used to transport students or teachers; (Section 1280.1.C.1) Exception for dropping off students at school, must not leave vehicle unattended."

    "5. Any sports arena during a professional sporting event;"

    "6. Any place where pari-mutuel wagering is authorized by law"

    7. (Section 1272.1.) "It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer... or alcoholic beverages... are consumed....this shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, ... may carry the concealed or unconcealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business."

    8. (Section 1277.1.B) "into or upon any college, university, or technology center school property." Exception: Written consent of the college or university president or technology center school administrator, provided the written consent is carried with the handgun and the valid handgun license while on college, university, or technology center school property."

    "For purposes of this subsection, the following property shall not be construed as prohibited for persons having a valid handgun license: Any property set aside for the use or parking of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, provided the handgun is carried or stored as required by law and the handgun is not removed from the vehicle... ...while the vehicle is on any college, university, or technology center school property;"

    13) What about parking lots at prohibited places?
    (Section 1277) "For purposes of paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 of subsection A of this section, the prohibited place does not include and specifically excludes the following property:

    1. Any property set aside for the use or parking of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority;

    2. Any property set aside for the use or parking of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, by any entity offering any professional sporting event which is open to the public for admission, or by any entity engaged in pari-mutuel wagering authorized by law;

    3. Any property adjacent to a structure, building, or office space in which concealed or unconcealed weapons are prohibited by the provisions of this section; and

    14)What about parks?
    (Section 1277) 4. "Any property designated by a city, town, county, or state, governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds; provided, nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section."

    15) What about business with signs indicating they are gun free zones?
    (Section 1290.22.A) "Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity." There is no penalty specified in law for carrying into a gun free zone (provided it's not on the prohibited places list), but one could be subjected to a charge for trespassing. Generally, trespassing charges require one to be asked to leave before they can be charged. There has been debate over this issue. We recommend avoiding businesses that post signs indicating that they don't want legal carriers, and patronizing other establishments that value the business of law abiding gun owners.

    16) Can my employer or a business prohibit my handgun from being stored in my car?
    (Section 1290.22.B) "No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.
    (Section 1289.7.A) "No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall maintain, establish, or enforce any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms or ammunition in a locked motor vehicle, or from transporting and storing firearms or ammunition locked in or locked to a motor vehicle on any property set aside for any motor vehicle."

    17) Is it legal to record interactions with the police and/or other people? Yes, so long as you are a party to the conversation. This applies to face to face communication, as well as telephone calls. (O.S. §13-176.4.) "It is not unlawful pursuant to the Security of Communications Act for:
    5. a person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, oral or electronic communication when such person is a party to the communication or when one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless the communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing any criminal act."
    Last edited by okiebryan; 10-02-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Director, Oklahoma Open Carry Association
    Posts
    450
    By the way, this thread is intended to be a sticky for future reference. Please limit posts to suggestions, discussions, or corrections about the original post.

    If you have questions specific to your situation, please PLEASE start a new thread. Thanks.

    Moderator edited:
    Have edited/cleaned the thread. Future posts that are off topic will be edited at the discretion of the OP. See above.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-01-2012 at 07:06 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2
    After reading the Q&A I am a little confused, are you able to carry in parks and fairgrounds?

    The way I had understood the OK SDA was that you could carry in a park or in the fairgrounds.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by moosedaddy View Post
    After reading the Q&A I am a little confused, are you able to carry in parks and fairgrounds?

    The way I had understood the OK SDA was that you could carry in a park or in the fairgrounds.
    Yes you can carry in parks and fairgrounds, but you may not be able to carry into the buildings at parks and fairgrounds if they are places where business with the public is done.

    Also, after speaking with the chief ranger for the State Parks Department, some State Park land is iffy. Some of the land in some state parks falls under the jurisdiction of Fish and Wildlife department and is therefore not part of the State Park (even though it may be right in the middle of one) but State Wildlife Land. That particular land is a no go, but I'm not sure how one would tell exactly where that boundary lies.
    Last edited by hrdware; 10-01-2012 at 08:32 PM.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2
    I am just trying to be clear on this, I was at the Tulsa State Fair this past weekend, so could you carry on the midway but not the buildings or could you carry in the buildings also except where the government does business?

    Could someone explain this as to where it would be OK and where it is not and why.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by moosedaddy View Post
    I am just trying to be clear on this, I was at the Tulsa State Fair this past weekend, so could you carry on the midway but not the buildings or could you carry in the buildings also except where the government does business?

    Could someone explain this as to where it would be OK and where it is not and why.
    From a statute point of view, you could carry on the midway and in the buildings unless there is a governmental meeting taking place in one of them or if the government is doing business with the public in one of them.

    However there is some gray area when it comes to those buildings being posted. Those buildings are government owned buildings and part of the fairgrounds, so can they legally be posted and no weapons allowed? Statute says that no one in control of the fairgrounds can make a policy prohibiting carry, however that is exactly what Oklahoma State Fair, Inc did at the State Fair in OKC last month.

    Until a test case happens to clear the water, it's best to use your own judgement about the buildings.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  7. #7
    Regular Member C-dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , Texas, USA
    Posts
    46
    Good evening everyone.

    I would also like to ask a question regarding licenses from other states. I understand that my CHL from Texas is recognized by Oklahoma, but the statute is not clear enough to me whether it allows me to open carry in Oklahoma after November 1, 2012. Texas does not allow open carry is why I'm not clear on this. Must the state where one is licensed, that also has reciprocal agreement with Oklahoma, allow open carry to be able to open carry in Oklahoma?


    Thanks,
    C-dub

  8. #8
    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    110
    C-Dub

    From my understanding, your Texas license being reciprocal in Oklahoma means that you follow Oklahoma laws, which in turns mean you can open carry according to the Oklahoma laws (i.e. in a belt or shoulder holster, .45 cal or small, ect)

    Again, from my understanding, the same would apply for Oklahoma license carriers going to Texas. Since Texas does not allow open carry, an Oklahoma carrier could not open carry in Texas even though it is legal in Oklahoma. You must follow the laws in the state you are in.

    I am sure someone else will come along with a lot more knowledge of this than what I have, but this is my understanding of the matter. Most will be quick to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Archerman99; 10-30-2012 at 09:42 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by C-dub View Post
    Good evening everyone.

    I would also like to ask a question regarding licenses from other states. I understand that my CHL from Texas is recognized by Oklahoma, but the statute is not clear enough to me whether it allows me to open carry in Oklahoma after November 1, 2012. Texas does not allow open carry is why I'm not clear on this. Must the state where one is licensed, that also has reciprocal agreement with Oklahoma, allow open carry to be able to open carry in Oklahoma?


    Thanks,
    C-dub
    C-dub,

    You most certainly will be able to open carry in Oklahoma with your Texas license.

    Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1290.26, Version 2
    RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY

    The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued by another state.

    Any person entering this state in possession of a firearm authorized for concealed or unconcealed carry upon the authority and license of another state is authorized to continue to carry a concealed or unconcealed firearm and license in this state; provided the license from the other state remains valid. The firearm must either be carried unconcealed or concealed from detection and view, and upon coming in contact with any peace officer of this state, the person must disclose the fact that he or she is in possession of a concealed or unconcealed firearm pursuant to a valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued in another state. Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may apply for a handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state.
    I have recently seen posts on the internet claiming that this would be illegal per OSBI. The problem is that someone called OSBI to ask them and the people in the licensing unit were giving out bad legal advice. If you call OSBI and speak to the legal department, they will tell you that the situation you describe is perfectly legal.
    Last edited by hrdware; 10-31-2012 at 07:35 AM.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  10. #10
    Regular Member C-dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , Texas, USA
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    C-dub,

    You most certainly will be able to open carry in Oklahoma with your Texas license.



    I have recently seen posts on the internet claiming that this would be illegal per OSBI. The problem is that someone called OSBI to ask them and the people in the licensing unit were giving out bad legal advice. If you call OSBI and speak to the legal department, they will tell you that the situation you describe is perfectly legal.
    That's great. I'll be coming through next month on my way to Kansas and look forward to being able to remove my cover garment at the Texas-Oklahoma border and be more comfortable. And I always stop for gas in OK, so weather permitting I'll be able to get out without having to worry about it either.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    211
    C-Dub there is still a lot of gray areas being worked out with the new law but remember the old saying. If in doubt dont wear it out.

    Just to let you know some examples of confusion though..... Law states firearms can not be within so many feet of a school (Not in the SDA law of course) however SDA states as long as it remains in your car your legal. Now which law is legal and which one are you breaking?

    Cleet laws state a security officer has all the powers of a private citizen but must remove his firearm when he is no longer on duty. However as a private citizen you are licensed to carry through the SDA you can wear it outside in a holster. So do you obey cleets laws or does SDA cover you?

    I also recall reading something about wearing firearms on a bus is gray in the SDA but there is a specific law that targets transportation making carrying a firearm illegal. Which one do you follow?

    There is still some work to be done on cleaning up the laws a little but the best advice is if your in doubt stick to what you know.

  12. #12
    Regular Member ddillman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Skiatook, Ok
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    C-Dub there is still a lot of gray areas being worked out with the new law but remember the old saying. If in doubt dont wear it out.

    Just to let you know some examples of confusion though..... Law states firearms can not be within so many feet of a school (Not in the SDA law of course) however SDA states as long as it remains in your car your legal. Now which law is legal and which one are you breaking?

    Cleet laws state a security officer has all the powers of a private citizen but must remove his firearm when he is no longer on duty. However as a private citizen you are licensed to carry through the SDA you can wear it outside in a holster. So do you obey cleets laws or does SDA cover you?

    I also recall reading something about wearing firearms on a bus is gray in the SDA but there is a specific law that targets transportation making carrying a firearm illegal. Which one do you follow?

    There is still some work to be done on cleaning up the laws a little but the best advice is if your in doubt stick to what you know.
    Your info is outdated. The law that stated weapons can't be within so many feet of a school was dine away with a long time ago. I know that because in Skiatook we have housing additions that "but up against the school" you can have weapons in those households because of oklahoma doing away with that law. AND it is a felony to leave your weapon unattended in your vehicle on school grounds. It specifically states this in SDA law.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by ddillman View Post
    Your info is outdated. The law that stated weapons can't be within so many feet of a school was dine away with a long time ago. I know that because in Skiatook we have housing additions that "but up against the school" you can have weapons in those households because of oklahoma doing away with that law. AND it is a felony to leave your weapon unattended in your vehicle on school grounds. It specifically states this in SDA law.
    The Federal Gun Free School Zone act is still in effect. You may not possess a firearm with 1000 feet of a school. There are exceptions such as on private property, if you have a permit from your state, empty and in a locked container, and a few others.

    Here is a link to the update 1995 law: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  14. #14
    Regular Member ddillman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Skiatook, Ok
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    The Federal Gun Free School Zone act is still in effect. You may not possess a firearm with 1000 feet of a school. There are exceptions such as on private property, if you have a permit from your state, empty and in a locked container, and a few others.

    Here is a link to the update 1995 law: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf
    Then why is it that I am told I can drive onto a school campus with my weapon in the vehicle and drop someone off? I just brought that weapon within 1000 ft, right? I'm told I cannot leave it unattended in the vehicle. That is saying I can have it there just not unattended.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Broken Arrow
    Posts
    268
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    The Federal Gun Free School Zone act is still in effect. You may not possess a firearm with 1000 feet of a school. There are exceptions such as on private property, if you have a permit from your state, empty and in a locked container, and a few others.

    Here is a link to the update 1995 law: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf
    Also let me ask if im walking my dog or what have you in my neighborhood and am walking past the elementary school that is in my neighborhood(which seems to be the case in every neighborhood in at least the tulsa broken arrow area) and im carrying my firearm either open or concealed, then i would be in violation of said law. Also does that apply just while school is in session or all year round?

  16. #16
    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Director, Oklahoma Open Carry Association
    Posts
    450
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary S View Post
    Also let me ask if im walking my dog or what have you in my neighborhood and am walking past the elementary school that is in my neighborhood(which seems to be the case in every neighborhood in at least the tulsa broken arrow area) and im carrying my firearm either open or concealed, then i would be in violation of said law. Also does that apply just while school is in session or all year round?
    Being licensed to carry by the state where you are is an exemption from the FGFSA.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Broken Arrow
    Posts
    268
    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    Being licensed to carry by the state where you are is an exemption from the FGFSA.
    Oh ok thank you

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by ddillman View Post
    Then why is it that I am told I can drive onto a school campus with my weapon in the vehicle and drop someone off? I just brought that weapon within 1000 ft, right? I'm told I cannot leave it unattended in the vehicle. That is saying I can have it there just not unattended.
    Your permit exempts you from the Federal GFSZ Act, but the state also puts restrictions on you. Those restrictions are that you can not leave it unattended on school property and you are only allowed to have it on school property for picking up and dropping off.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary S View Post
    Also let me ask if im walking my dog or what have you in my neighborhood and am walking past the elementary school that is in my neighborhood(which seems to be the case in every neighborhood in at least the tulsa broken arrow area) and im carrying my firearm either open or concealed, then i would be in violation of said law. Also does that apply just while school is in session or all year round?
    As Okiebryan said, having a permit exempts you from the 1000 ft rule of the FGFSZ (also being on private property exempts you as well). With that being said however, state law still prohibits carrying a firearm on school property unless dropping off or picking up and it can not be in an unattended vehicle.

    In the scenario you described, I would walk on the other side of the street as to not be on the school property while walking your dog. The law does not distinguish between school being in session or not, it just declares all elementary and secondary school property to be off limits.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  20. #20
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    As Okiebryan said, having a permit exempts you from the 1000 ft rule of the FGFSZ (also being on private property exempts you as well). With that being said however, state law still prohibits carrying a firearm on school property unless dropping off or picking up and it can not be in an unattended vehicle.

    In the scenario you described, I would walk on the other side of the street as to not be on the school property while walking your dog. The law does not distinguish between school being in session or not, it just declares all elementary and secondary school property to be off limits.
    Yes having a permit does exempt you from the GFSZA but that only to the extent of transport and not the use of, as in actually discharging your firearm for the purpose of self defense unless like you stated when on or in your own private property not part of school grounds. So at this point with the current wording regardless of your lawful possession your still powerless to use said weapon to defend yourself or another without possibility of prosecution.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    Yes having a permit does exempt you from the GFSZA but that only to the extent of transport and not the use of, as in actually discharging your firearm for the purpose of self defense unless like you stated when on or in your own private property not part of school grounds. So at this point with the current wording regardless of your lawful possession your still powerless to use said weapon to defend yourself or another without possibility of prosecution.
    We can't just look at the FGFSZA by itself, we also have to look at state law.

    The permit does exempt you from the possession portion of the FGFSZA (paragraph 2), but only for the purpose of transporting a student to and from school (per state law).

    You are correct, that the permit does not exempt you from paragraph 3, discharging your firearm unless you are on private property. I disagree with the bolded part as it does not say it has to be your private property.

    What that means now is that if I'm walking down the street and I come up to a school and I am carrying, I really need to cross the street and continue past the school. While the FGFSZA would allow me to continue along the school side, state law would not.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  22. #22
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    We can't just look at the FGFSZA by itself, we also have to look at state law.

    The permit does exempt you from the possession portion of the FGFSZA (paragraph 2), but only for the purpose of transporting a student to and from school (per state law).

    You are correct, that the permit does not exempt you from paragraph 3, discharging your firearm unless you are on private property. I disagree with the bolded part as it does not say it has to be your private property.

    What that means now is that if I'm walking down the street and I come up to a school and I am carrying, I really need to cross the street and continue past the school. While the FGFSZA would allow me to continue along the school side, state law would not.
    Yes that was my mistake it doesnt say your own,
    (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
    (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity. ;
    However the SDA also doesn't afford us the right to carry on someone else's private propery therefore the only private property without consent would be our own and also I'm thinking that (I'm not sure the exact distance) but that so far from the roadway which would include but not limited to any sidewalks is actually public and considered an easement or right of way and not private. Of which is not listed as an exempted place for discharging of your weapon. Though you may not be in violation of the SDA or the GFSZA for transport being that you are walking on public property with a permit, the act of discharging your weapon as worded in a public place would be a violation of the SDA and if within the school zone the GFSZA.
    TITLE 21 § 1364
    DISCHARGING FIREARM
    Every person who willfully discharges any pistol, rifle, shotgun, airgun or other weapon, or throws any other missile in any public place, or in any place where there is any person to be endangered thereby, although no injury to any person shall ensue, is guilty of a misdemeanor. Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section after having been issued a handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall have the license suspended for a period of six (6) months and shall be subject to an administrative fine of Fifty Dollars ($50.00), upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.
    But of course as with any law or violation thereof would be up to the discression of the authority having jurisdiction as to persure such charges, of which I don't care or can afford to be the test case.

    Also I am not a lawyer and my comments are not legal advise but merely my interpretation of law.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    However the SDA also doesn't afford us the right to carry on someone else's private propery therefore the only private property without consent would be our own and also I'm thinking that (I'm not sure the exact distance) but that so far from the roadway which would include but not limited to any sidewalks is actually public and considered an easement or right of way and not private. Of which is not listed as an exempted place for discharging of your weapon. Though you may not be in violation of the SDA or the GFSZA for transport being that you are walking on public property with a permit, the act of discharging your weapon as worded in a public place would be a violation of the SDA and if within the school zone the GFSZA.

    But of course as with any law or violation thereof would be up to the discression of the authority having jurisdiction as to persure such charges, of which I don't care or can afford to be the test case.

    Also I am not a lawyer and my comments are not legal advise but merely my interpretation of law.
    You are correct that the SDA does not tell us where we can carry. It doesn't list Wal-Mart, but I can carry there and that is private property. Unless it is a prohibited place as codified in statute, it is legal to carry until the property owner tells me otherwise (and I believe a sign is sufficient notice of their wishes). Laws are supposed to be designed to tell us what we cannot do, not what we can. The exception is when the law is written that says it is illegal to do X, unless condition Y exists. You cannot carry a concealed firearm unless you have a Handgun License. In the same way, nothing in the law says I cannot carry a firearm onto any private property. I can be asked to leave by the property owner and if I refuse, I can be charged with trespass. Therefore any private property (where you have not been asked to leave) would be OK.

    If I remember correctly, all land out to the gutter in the street is private property belonging to the landowner. However, the local government has easement rights, but that does not make the land public. The same goes for sidewalks that cross private property. While they are on private property, it is a violation of the law (at least where I live) for the private property owner to block the sidewalk. Also if something happens to the sidewalk, such as a sinkhole occurs underneath and disrupts one of the sections, many times it is the landowner and not the city that has to pay to get it fixed. After all, it is a problem with your land (under the sidewalk) that caused the problem in the first place.

    The section of law quoted, is listed under Crimes Against Public Peace and I think is aimed a quelling celebratory gunfire. Keep in mind that the Oklahoma Law provides for the lawful discharge of a firearm in self defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1289.25
    A. The Legislature hereby recognizes that the citizens of the State of Oklahoma have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes or places of business.
    B. A person or an owner, manager or employee of a business is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    1. The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle, or a place of business, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against the will of that person from the dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle, or place of business; and
    2. The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
    C. The presumption set forth in subsection B of this section does not apply if:
    1. The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not a protective order from domestic violence in effect or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;
    2. The person or persons sought to be removed are children or grandchildren, or are otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
    3. The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle, or place of business to further an unlawful activity.
    D. A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    E. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter the dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle of another person, or a place of business is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
    F. A person who uses force, as permitted pursuant to the provisions of subsections B and D of this section, is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force. As used in this subsection, the term "criminal prosecution" includes charging or prosecuting the defendant.
    G. A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force, but the law enforcement agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
    H. The court shall award reasonable attorney fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection F of this section.
    I. The provisions of this section and the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall not be construed to require any person using a pistol pursuant to the provisions of this section to be licensed in any manner.
    J. As used in this section:
    1. "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people;
    2. "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest; and
    3. "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
    So a person who uses deadly force and is justified in using such force is immune from criminal prosecution from the use of such force. If you are justified in firing a handgun for defensive purposes than you cannot be charged or prosecuted for criminal acts.

    In my opinion, if you were within 1000 ft of a school and discharged your firearm for justifiable defensive purposes you may face charges under the FGFSZA, but not under state law. And I think the FGFSZA would even be a little iffy.

    I am not a lawyer, but this is my take on it.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  24. #24
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Choctaw, OK
    Posts
    154
    Hrdware,
    You make a very reasonable point about private property and the use of force. I must not have been thinking clearly as I had a rough night, very little sleep.

    Not sure what I was thinking about the private property part. But as for the public discharge, to the best of my recollection in my safety course that was not explained in that way, then again that was over seven years ago. With that I can see your explaintion and am thinking that should be clarified better in the law therefore requiring less interpretation.

    After revisiting the use of force bit, what is your take as to why they titled it against an intruder instead of another person if it also protects us while at any other place we have a right to be? If we have a right to be out say walking our dog in public for example and someone trys to rob us or something that wouldn't make them an intruder of our home, vehicle or business would it other than maybe intruding on my own safety?

    Also something that brought confusion to my own interpretation about that section was subsection D.
    A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    Wouldn't that also include businesses in and of itself? Therefore nulifying the need to change the wording to say a place of business if you had a legal right to be there in that place?
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    After revisiting the use of force bit, what is your take as to why they titled it against an intruder instead of another person if it also protects us while at any other place we have a right to be? If we have a right to be out say walking our dog in public for example and someone trys to rob us or something that wouldn't make them an intruder of our home, vehicle or business would it other than maybe intruding on my own safety?

    Also something that brought confusion to my own interpretation about that section was subsection D.

    Wouldn't that also include businesses in and of itself? Therefore nulifying the need to change the wording to say a place of business if you had a legal right to be there in that place?
    Remember that when this was first passed, paragraph D did not exist in its current form. The law was simply written as the "Make My Day" law, which protected home owners when using deadly force against an intruder. Hence the title. Over time, more has been added to this section of the statutes, including the current paragraph D and and 2011 the part about being safe in a business.

    At another point in time, the "Stand Your Ground" portion of the law was added so that people were not required to run away before they were able to use deadly force.

    I think part of the reason the business stuff was added was due to the Jerome Ersland(sp) pharmacy issue. (I'm not getting into the rulings of that case). But lawmakers felt it was necessary to specifically say that people have a right to feel safe where they work. Therefore they added language to specifically protect people who use deadly force against an intruder while at work.

    With all these additions to the statute, the title has never been updated.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •