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Thread: FPS Russia on CC vs. OC

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    FPS Russia on CC vs. OC


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    I invited him here via facebook.

    I love your videos. As far as open carry, I think you have some misconceptions, I OC daily, it doesn't scare people, I have been thanked by many, and it doesn't make you a target. In some situations, open carry is actually required by law. I would love for you to come to our forum and discuss this with some of the most experienced and well educated members of the firearms community. Open carry is very active in Michigan, and many of us would like to hear from you on the subject. You might learn something, or teach us something. If your local laws allow, maybe you should try it out for yourself. My screen name is as it is on youtube, stainless1911, hope to see you there.

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    LOL If he doesn't OC, how would he know of any repercussions for doing so? How many OC'ers have been bashed in the head, their gun taken, and shot in the back of their head? A very clueless individual in regards to OC in my opinion. Where's Tex?

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    Guess I'm an a**hole .. eh...what can you do?

    His vids are starting to get old though , he should mix it up with some different people ...

    Do both is my motto

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Guess I'm an a**hole .. eh...what can you do?

    His vids are starting to get old though , he should mix it up with some different people ...

    Do both is my motto


    +1... Adding OC to your repertoire gives you more flexibility... don't have to dress around your firearm... can carry in more places.... induces conversations about firearms and carry that you never would have had.... shows people it's ok for normal people to carry.... faster draw.... one handed draw... less chance of snags... deterrent value... etc...

    FPS's video is pretty close minded.


    The whole "you will get shot first" argument is such total BS, let alone that it's never happened, but wow... someone busts in, you blade strong side away from them... voila, they're not going to see your firearm.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I invited him here via facebook.

    I love your videos. As far as open carry, I think you have some misconceptions, I OC daily, it doesn't scare people, I have been thanked by many, and it doesn't make you a target. In some situations, open carry is actually required by law. I would love for you to come to our forum and discuss this with some of the most experienced and well educated members of the firearms community. Open carry is very active in Michigan, and many of us would like to hear from you on the subject. You might learn something, or teach us something. If your local laws allow, maybe you should try it out for yourself. My screen name is as it is on youtube, stainless1911, hope to see you there.
    it doesn't scare people? if he listens to your audio on the youtube screen name you gave him, he might think otherwise. don't you have a bunch of cops telling you you're scaring people?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    copycat :P

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    copycat :P
    correct area for discussion
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    it doesn't scare people? if he listens to your audio on the youtube screen name you gave him, he might think otherwise. don't you have a bunch of cops telling you you're scaring people?
    I dont really believe the cops who say Im scaring people, I have enough real time experience to disprove this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    correct area for discussion
    Duplicate posting. 'ginst da rulez HA!

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I dont really believe the cops who say Im scaring people, I have enough real time experience to disprove this.
    i don't either... just saying that you might be helping to prove him right if he checks out your vids
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    +1... Adding OC to your repertoire gives you more flexibility... don't have to dress around your firearm... can carry in more places.... induces conversations about firearms and carry that you never would have had.... shows people it's ok for normal people to carry.... faster draw.... one handed draw... less chance of snags... deterrent value... etc...

    FPS's video is pretty close minded.


    The whole "you will get shot first" argument is such total BS, let alone that it's never happened, but wow... someone busts in, you blade strong side away from them... voila, they're not going to see your firearm.
    People have a tendency to fear what they don't understand. Instead of actually strapping on the gun and seeing for oneself what doesn't happen, it's easier to sit back and just parrot the irrational fears of clueless individuals. For the last 33 years I've had a fear of heights, but it's not for lack of understanding what it's like to hit the concrete below. One day, like the anti-OC'ers, I may overcome those fears but maybe not.

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    Im afraid of heights as well. I dont compare heights to OC, because with heights you can actually fall and get hurt. Also, the fear increases your likelihood of falling. A fear of OC wont increase your chances of getting shot. Unless it leaves you unarmed, then it does.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 10-02-2012 at 10:13 AM. Reason: run on sentence

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    A robber/thief does not a murderer make. Just because someone is willing to threaten violence to get theri $150 out of the till doesn't mean they will actually kill someone... if they were willing to just out and out kill someone why would they leave a live witness to the crime? They would just kill the clerk and everyone in the store... they don't because they're not murderers. They're party story robbers... BIIIIIIG difference.

    They also know that the cops aren't going to hunt as hard for the quickie mart robber as they would for a murderer.

    People who use that logic clearly aren't thinking things all the way through.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    A robber/thief does not a murderer make. Just because someone is willing to threaten violence to get theri $150 out of the till doesn't mean they will actually kill someone... if they were willing to just out and out kill someone why would they leave a live witness to the crime? They would just kill the clerk and everyone in the store... they don't because they're not murderers. They're party story robbers... BIIIIIIG difference.

    They also know that the cops aren't going to hunt as hard for the quickie mart robber as they would for a murderer.

    People who use that logic clearly aren't thinking things all the way through.
    Me, personally, when faced with both types, I could not tell the difference. I'm going to have to assume they are carrying a gun for a reason, not for a conversation piece.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    A robber/thief does not a murderer make. Just because someone is willing to threaten violence to get theri $150 out of the till doesn't mean they will actually kill someone... if they were willing to just out and out kill someone why would they leave a live witness to the crime? They would just kill the clerk and everyone in the store... they don't because they're not murderers. They're party story robbers... BIIIIIIG difference.

    They also know that the cops aren't going to hunt as hard for the quickie mart robber as they would for a murderer.

    People who use that logic clearly aren't thinking things all the way through.
    ^ What ShadowBear said. I'll avoid it if I can, but if theres cause for an SD shooting, there prolly isn't the time to second guess the intentions of someone who has apparently already lost it.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Me, personally, when faced with both types, I could not tell the difference. I'm going to have to assume they are carrying a gun for a reason, not for a conversation piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    ^ What ShadowBear said. I'll avoid it if I can, but if theres cause for an SD shooting, there prolly isn't the time to second guess the intentions of someone who has apparently already lost it.


    You guys are missing my point.... I"m not talking about SD shooting someone with a gun... clearly the crooks are employing lethal force which can be met with lethal force... that's not my argument. My argument is against 'tards that talk about a guy busting in to the 7/11 while you're there and seeing your OCd piece and blasting you.... more likely, if they even see it, they're going to high tail it out of there.

    I was just talking about some of FPS's points and how they don't make sense if people think them all the way through.

    The guy robbing 7/11 isn't there to kill people and most likely won't... that is not to say that CCer/OCer shouldn't act if they are there... that is to say that people's argument that OC is bad because you'll get shot is largely invalid.
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 10-03-2012 at 01:54 PM.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    Thanks for the clarification.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I'm with HKcarrier. I tend to think of this as an odds game. I believe that most common criminals are not looking to commit murder and will avoid an obviously armed person and I believe research and common sense backs up that belief. I also freely admit that there are people in the world that will target me for my OCed handgun and "shoot me first" just to get me out of the way or steal my handgun, BUT the number of people in that category is tiny when compared to the number of common criminals.

    So, for me, if an OCed handgun acts as a deterrent for *75% of criminals...meaning that I will not be targeted by that large majority, but acts as an enticement for 25% of criminals...meaning I would be targeted by a minority of criminals specifically because I had a visible pistol I see it as an overall benefit to OC.

    I want to plan my self-defense strategies based on what I am most likely to encounter. And I am most likely to encounter a common criminal out looking for an easy score. It's the same reason I put the fire extinguisher in my kitchen near the stove instead of over the dishwasher. Could my dishwasher catch fire? Sure it could, but the chances of a fire starting in or on the stove are much higher.

    *I doubt the actual numbers are anywhere near the 75/25 split.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    FPS Russia on CC vs. OC

    All,

    We need to change our dialog. Someone who says:

    "I think CC is better than OC and here's why, but do whatever you want"

    Is NOT anti-OC. He is clearly pro-choice, preferring CC himself. To call him anti-OC is the same as calling an OCer that says:

    "I think OC is better than CC and here's why, but do whatever you want"

    Anti-CC -- it just doesn't make sense!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Good point Q.

  23. #23
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I'm with HKcarrier. I tend to think of this as an odds game. I believe that most common criminals are not looking to commit murder and will avoid an obviously armed person and I believe research and common sense backs up that belief. I also freely admit that there are people in the world that will target me for my OCed handgun and "shoot me first" just to get me out of the way or steal my handgun, BUT the number of people in that category is tiny when compared to the number of common criminals.

    So, for me, if an OCed handgun acts as a deterrent for *75% of criminals...meaning that I will not be targeted by that large majority, but acts as an enticement for 25% of criminals...meaning I would be targeted by a minority of criminals specifically because I had a visible pistol I see it as an overall benefit to OC.

    I want to plan my self-defense strategies based on what I am most likely to encounter. And I am most likely to encounter a common criminal out looking for an easy score. It's the same reason I put the fire extinguisher in my kitchen near the stove instead of over the dishwasher. Could my dishwasher catch fire? Sure it could, but the chances of a fire starting in or on the stove are much higher.

    *I doubt the actual numbers are anywhere near the 75/25 split.

    Bronson

    Yeah, you numbers are probably on the CONSERVATIVE side... only the most hardcore criminals are likely to break off a chunk like that...


    Additionally, saying someone will shoot your for your gun makes as much sense as "someone will shoot you for your rolex" or "someone will shoot you for your BMW".... Again, clearly they have not thought their argument all the way through and as someone pointed out they're just parroting what they hear from others instead of actually checking it out and OCing themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    All,

    We need to change our dialog. Someone who says:

    "I think CC is better than OC and here's why, but do whatever you want"

    Is NOT anti-OC. He is clearly pro-choice, preferring CC himself. To call him anti-OC is the same as calling an OCer that says:

    "I think OC is better than CC and here's why, but do whatever you want"

    Anti-CC -- it just doesn't make sense!


    He can say "I think OC is a bad idea for me and I don't do it" and be fine... but when he starts making disparaging remarks against OCers, I tend to lean towards him being ANTI-OC.... Just my opinion.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    i can't take this guy seriuosly if my life depended on it. he dual weilds 12 ga semi auto shot guns and CGI's flying drones into his vid.......

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    Additionally, saying someone will shoot your for your gun makes as much sense as "someone will shoot you for your rolex" or "someone will shoot you for your BMW".... Again, clearly they have not thought their argument all the way through
    There are some truly heinous evil people in this world and I believe a certain number of them would kill you for your Rolex, BMW, gun, shoes, wearing the wrong color, or just for fun. But, I also believe these people are rare when compared to the size of the criminal population as a whole and like I said I put together my personal security plan for what I am most likely to encounter.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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