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Thread: Introduction and question about public perception

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    Regular Member WCEarp's Avatar
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    Introduction and question about public perception

    So, I finally decided to get a handgun for self defense. The idea of having one isn't new to me or my wife. My part time career takes me from home from time to time (some times longer than others). Also, I haven't be able to come up with a better defense measure against a home invasion or being assaulted outside the home. I use to think, in my younger days, that a shotgun would suffice, but with kids in the home, having a loaded gun unattended is out of the question. Besides it would be a royal pain to carry it around all day, let alone trying to conceal it during the summertime. Then when considering that my Bushmaster AR-15 has a 24" barrel, I would get the same problems as a shotgun plus the added down side of a rifle that is to long for close quarters combat. That seems to leave me with a handgun.
    The family seems all for it. Not that the kids' opinions matter much when comes to self defense of my family, but it is nice to know that they are okay with it. My oldest boy is fine with long guns. Hunting, target shooting, and for the first time as of a couple of weeks ago, skeet shooting. He just doesn't have much interest in handguns. My other son never tires of learning about different handguns, how they work, or asking me to see the 22lr pistol that we're borrowing from my father-in-law. My little girl acts as if having any of my rifles out for cleaning or dry fire practice is something as normal as breathing. Also, all this talk about handguns in the house has given me extra time with the kids to talk about all the do's and dont's of gun safety. Now, my wife has been wanting a gun to go to the range with for years. I know, I know, what took me so long. Money, time, desire, everything that usually gets in the way. She use to go with her dad to the range all the time while she was in high school and loves our "range dates" with the borrowed 22.
    I know this is a bit long for a forum post and introduction, but I wanted to lay it all out there so to speak. So, here is the issue I would like to bring up.
    I am starting from scratch in the hand gun department. I will be getting a conceal carry permit for the times (which sadly are too many) when open carry won't be prudent for me, a night stand safe, OWB retention holster, IWB holster, belt, practice ammo, until I get enough new brass for the reloader, self defense ammo, and then a pistol. The wife doesn't like revolvers or the feel of compact pistols and wants one with a safety. This has brought us down to the Ruger SR9/40/c series and 1911 variations. I would like the SR9c for the time I will be needing to conceal but need to find a good way of solving the loose feel of the mag extension. After trying my father-in-laws IWB for his PT1911, I have agreed that it is quite manageable and comfortable. I would like to know if there is more attention given by Joe Public depending on the type of gun carried. Does the iconic 1911 bring about more curiosity or interaction from people or not. I ask because there are days I could care less about interacting with strangers and I don't think it would help normalize gun ownership if people approach me on my off days. I wish I could buy two guns, one for her and a Sig for me, but our budget isn't big enough since we'll be getting the boys a single shot 22lr for Christmas.

    Thank you for your time and consideration

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    Quote Originally Posted by WCEarp View Post
    So, I finally decided to get a handgun for self defense. The idea of having one isn't new to me or my wife. My part time career takes me from home from time to time (some times longer than others). Also, I haven't be able to come up with a better defense measure against a home invasion or being assaulted outside the home. I use to think, in my younger days, that a shotgun would suffice, but with kids in the home, having a loaded gun unattended is out of the question. Besides it would be a royal pain to carry it around all day, let alone trying to conceal it during the summertime. Then when considering that my Bushmaster AR-15 has a 24" barrel, I would get the same problems as a shotgun plus the added down side of a rifle that is to long for close quarters combat. That seems to leave me with a handgun.
    The family seems all for it. Not that the kids' opinions matter much when comes to self defense of my family, but it is nice to know that they are okay with it. My oldest boy is fine with long guns. Hunting, target shooting, and for the first time as of a couple of weeks ago, skeet shooting. He just doesn't have much interest in handguns. My other son never tires of learning about different handguns, how they work, or asking me to see the 22lr pistol that we're borrowing from my father-in-law. My little girl acts as if having any of my rifles out for cleaning or dry fire practice is something as normal as breathing. Also, all this talk about handguns in the house has given me extra time with the kids to talk about all the do's and dont's of gun safety. Now, my wife has been wanting a gun to go to the range with for years. I know, I know, what took me so long. Money, time, desire, everything that usually gets in the way. She use to go with her dad to the range all the time while she was in high school and loves our "range dates" with the borrowed 22.
    I know this is a bit long for a forum post and introduction, but I wanted to lay it all out there so to speak. So, here is the issue I would like to bring up.
    I am starting from scratch in the hand gun department. I will be getting a conceal carry permit for the times (which sadly are too many) when open carry won't be prudent for me, a night stand safe, OWB retention holster, IWB holster, belt, practice ammo, until I get enough new brass for the reloader, self defense ammo, and then a pistol. The wife doesn't like revolvers or the feel of compact pistols and wants one with a safety. This has brought us down to the Ruger SR9/40/c series and 1911 variations. I would like the SR9c for the time I will be needing to conceal but need to find a good way of solving the loose feel of the mag extension. After trying my father-in-laws IWB for his PT1911, I have agreed that it is quite manageable and comfortable. I would like to know if there is more attention given by Joe Public depending on the type of gun carried. Does the iconic 1911 bring about more curiosity or interaction from people or not. I ask because there are days I could care less about interacting with strangers and I don't think it would help normalize gun ownership if people approach me on my off days. I wish I could buy two guns, one for her and a Sig for me, but our budget isn't big enough since we'll be getting the boys a single shot 22lr for Christmas.

    Thank you for your time and consideration
    There will be some difference. If you go to carry a compact, people most likely won't notice. If you carry a full size 8" barrel pt92afs, or 357mag, people tend to notice a holster half the size of your body. (I know this from experience).

    As far as public perception goes, I noticed that when I carry a fobus weapon that is black polymer, people don't notice as much as when i carry my chrome 9mm in a soft holster. PROBABLY, thinking I am an officer of some sort.


    Get what is comfortable to you, and if you want to CC, get something comfortable enough to conceal.

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    Regular Member WCEarp's Avatar
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    Thank you NeoShade

    I thought size had more to do with attention drawn to the gun than style. I by no means have a desire to carry a S&W 500 CC or OC. I figured the SR9c was as big as I wanted to go and still have the CC option. Finding that the 1911 fit the bill to, I was just checking on if it garnered different attention.

    I guess I should only expect the occasional older veteran complaining about how the M9 sucks.

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    As others have mentioned on several boards before, your attire and how you carry yourself can often dictate how others will perceive you. You'll gain a bit more attention with OC, so if you get nervous you'll need to address that. As usual, I suggest having CCW at your disposal as an option in the event that you are challenged or your comfort levels get shaky. It's better than not carrying at all, which might happen if you become too uncomfortable. Been in the CCW realm since 04 and I can honestly say that there are times when you'll get that gut wrenching feeling that this might be one of those times or places that you just might want to cover up. Remember, society has been groomed by the media and LE to believe that anyone carrying a firearm in the open is a criminal and that clearly it's not legal for Joe Citizen to carry a firearm in that fashion.

    Attire: Most have noticed that if we dress sloppy (bum-ish) that we tend to draw the wrong kind of attention. If we dress nicely (nice jeans/slacks and a polo) that we draw a lot less of the wrong kind of attention. I'm not talking bad-guys here, I'm talking the citizen who might make a MWAG call based upon their personal fears and lack of information.

    Carrying yourself: Make eye contact, greet folks with a smile and engage some (selectively) in a verbal fashion. Stand up straight (don't slump) and walk with a little pep or purpose. Military folks were taught as Privates that if you walk with the appearance that you have a purpose that the nasty Drill SGT's will leave you alone; same goes for OC in most cases.

    Important note: When you engage others in conversation or find yourself politely engaged by another, make sure to keep your hands away from your firearm. For some odd reason it seems to make onlookers a little nervous. I actually had a conversation with a Bass Pro patron regarding this recently, given that I was having a conversation with one of my CCW students in the lot....visibly armed. Just having my arm resting on it (because I wasn't covered and had that side to the open part of the lot) was enough to make the patron think I was hiding it from the other party. We had a nice conversation and I made sure to thank them for giving me the student-check.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 10-02-2012 at 11:28 PM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Do not listen to REALteach4u, he sells "nice jeans/slacks and a polo" over the Interwebs. He will next be PMing you to give you his sales pitch.

    Bottom line, in your "normal" area, the area(s) where you do most of your comings and goings (that QT you almost always frequent for coffee and fuel, ect...), most citizens already "know" you though you may have never met. Folks are pretty good at remembering what you "normally" look like and usually notice you more when they sense something is not normal about you. They may not know what is not normal about you but it is something so they start to scrutinize you more. The clothes that REALteach4u will try to sell you will likely pique their attention (you don't normally dress like that.....maybe) and then they may "see" the gun.

    So, another bottom line, do your normal stuff, whatever normal is for you, AND don't buy clothes from REALteach4u because his stuff comes from a Chinese sweatshop that uses six year old kids to make his "nice" clothes for $.10/day.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Do not listen to REALteach4u, he sells "nice jeans/slacks and a polo" over the Interwebs. He will next be PMing you to give you his sales pitch.

    Bottom line, in your "normal" area, the area(s) where you do most of your comings and goings (that QT you almost always frequent for coffee and fuel, ect...), most citizens already "know" you though you may have never met. Folks are pretty good at remembering what you "normally" look like and usually notice you more when they sense something is not normal about you. They may not know what is not normal about you but it is something so they start to scrutinize you more. The clothes that REALteach4u will try to sell you will likely pique their attention (you don't normally dress like that.....maybe) and then they may "see" the gun.

    So, another bottom line, do your normal stuff, whatever normal is for you, AND don't buy clothes from REALteach4u because his stuff comes from a Chinese sweatshop that uses six year old kids to make his "nice" clothes for $.10/day.
    Personal attacks are really not necessary. We are all after the same goals here. I catch flack because I'm rather agressive about getting OUR rights back. I'll do it by what ever political means are necessary, even if it pisses soem people off. Last year we in Misosuri got a "flash amendment". Yes it sucks but we tried for much more. Next year we'll be better, smarter and more pro-active. If "WE" don't get more
    2A/open carry rights people will be "hot" again, whine and bit@h..... Get proactive and work for the pro-2A/OC candidates.


    WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN, YES "WE" CAN, BUT "WE" HAVE TO DO IT!

    Say something positive, easier to destroy than create.... Me, circa 2012.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    Personal attacks are really not necessary. We are all after the same goals here. I catch flack because I'm rather agressive about getting OUR rights back. I'll do it by what ever political means are necessary, even if it pisses soem people off. Last year we in Misosuri got a "flash amendment". Yes it sucks but we tried for much more. Next year we'll be better, smarter and more pro-active. If "WE" don't get more
    2A/open carry rights people will be "hot" again, whine and bit@h..... Get proactive and work for the pro-2A/OC candidates.


    WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN, YES "WE" CAN, BUT "WE" HAVE TO DO IT!

    Say something positive, easier to destroy than create.... Me, circa 2012.
    I sometimes wonder about you gunner, I really do.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Do not listen to REALteach4u, he sells "nice jeans/slacks and a polo" over the Interwebs. He will next be PMing you to give you his sales pitch.

    ....snip....

    So, another bottom line, do your normal stuff, whatever normal is for you, AND don't buy clothes from REALteach4u because his stuff comes from a Chinese sweatshop that uses six year old kids to make his "nice" clothes for $.10/day.
    LOL!!!

    WC....subcompacts (9mm.40) are much easier to carry and manage. Carry what you want...but be mindful, bling bling draws attention (good or bad) just be ready (conscientious) that it could. Prolly the best advice I can give is just be normal, but have a stronger awareness of your surroundings. When you start to CCW, it will feel different and you'll think everyone is watching you. They're not....heck, most people don't see you when your are OCing, so don't fret it. After a while, timing depends on the individual, it is second nature. My primary carry guns are a Glock 26 & 32.

    I didn't see you mentioning anything about carrying a Glock....got something against them? HuH!? Just giving you a hard time; although, it is said, you don't have a firearm unless you have a Glock....as for the clothes from Realteach4u, you are on your own!.

    Glad to hear you kids are comfortable around your firearms. I have a son who really enjoys shooting my pistols and a couple of my daughters are ok with it. Be thankful your wife is also understanding of the firearms in the house......I know that one from experience.

    Depending on where you are, dressing may not be an issue if OC is acceptable. However, if you are in a city or municipality that prohibits it, dressing for concealability (my word) needs to be a consideration.

    With all that said.....Go out and Go Bang!!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I sometimes wonder about you gunner, I really do.
    OMG my psychiatrist is on the forum...... Ok, I'm nuts, but I'm a productive head case!

    My problem is I read the Constitution and and I belive in freedom and liberty. It's my teacher's fault for putting those radical ideas in my head.

    Freedom, rights, truth, justice and the American way? I guess I just loss it some where along the line.

    Your right. Maybe I should become a left winger, just let the Government take care of me and serve my masters.

    NAW................. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

    OC for ME for President! I'm in.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Regular Member WCEarp's Avatar
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    Redbaron, OC FOR ME...... Thank you both for the suggestions. Normal people doing normal things see other normeal people.

    The question about carry a service size or close to service size pistol is because wife can't stand the feel of the compact pistols. With a budget to currently afford one gun, I would rather make mama happy and get her "her gun" first. I have nothing against Glocks. Some guns feel better in my hand and the wife wants an active safety.

    Quick rant- Us "military folks" are refered to as Troops and we all aren't Privates.- rant done. It ain't personal just a pet peeve of mine.

    So just treat the first couple of times OCing like when I am out and about in uniform. Ignore the occasional side glance, welcome the uncommon thank you, be ready for the rare screwball that thinks I am a murderer, and realize most people don't notice.

    Lastly, those active in campaigning, would you pm me with suggestions on framing OC supportive letters to my representatives. Namely things like support for a bill like SB680. That way this thread doesn't get off topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WCEarp View Post
    Redbaron, OC FOR ME...... Thank you both for the suggestions. Normal people doing normal things see other normeal people.
    You are quite welcome.

    The question about carry a service size or close to service size pistol is because wife can't stand the feel of the compact pistols. With a budget to currently afford one gun, I would rather make mama happy and get her "her gun" first. I have nothing against Glocks. Some guns feel better in my hand and the wife wants an active safety.
    What fits her hand(s) and meets her technical design requirements. There are a plethora of options "out there."

    Quick rant- Us "military folks" are refered to as Troops and we all aren't Privates.- rant done. It ain't personal just a pet peeve of mine
    .Not in the Navy or CG they're not.

    So just treat the first couple of times OCing like when I am out and about in uniform. Ignore the occasional side glance, welcome the uncommon thank you, be ready for the rare screwball that thinks I am a murderer, and realize most people don't notice.
    Add a audio recorder to your "normal" wardrobe that you purchased from gunner.

    Lastly, those active in campaigning, would you pm me with suggestions on framing OC supportive letters to my representatives. Namely things like support for a bill like SB680. That way this thread doesn't get off topic.
    gunner is one of only two the go to guys, in my book, for any productive efforts on pleading with and encouraging our elected state officials on our gun right. You got a question or comment PM gunner or LMTD and you will be served quite nicely. They have yet to fail me and many others who seek their sage advice.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by WCEarp View Post
    Quick rant- Us "military folks" are refered to as Troops and we all aren't Privates.- rant done. It ain't personal just a pet peeve of mine.
    By the way, the last time I referred to Marines as "troops"......well, let me just say that the outcome was not pretty.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCEarp
    I thought size had more to do with attention drawn to the gun than style.
    I had a LOL moment about this topic a year or so ago...
    I was at an OC awareness event, carrying my full-size Glock, with other people carrying their full-size shiny chromed whatevers.
    I got to talking with the driver of the billboard truck, we were there chatting for several minutes, and he eventually asked (just to be sure) if OC is legal in WI. He pointed to one of the guys with a large shiny something in his holster.
    I smiled & said, "yes it is. Look at my hip."
    He looked, & visibly flinched.
    We'd been standing pretty much within arm's reach for close to 5 minutes, with him on my strong side, & he hadn't noticed. Yet the shiny whatsis 30' away caught his attention.
    He didn't seem to be upset, just startled that he hadn't noticed.

    Got a similar reaction (being within arm's reach, but not noticing the pistol) when I met my lawyers for the first time.

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    Finding 2A ratings and getting to know your public servants

    Here is the link to the rating for my choice in the 91st rep district, from there you can find your own.

    http://www.nrapvf.org/grades-endorse...=Saint%20Louis

    What I do is find out where they will be and go meet them. In this case I found out she lived a block and a half from me, walked up and introduced myself and arranged for a sit down meeting over coffee. After an hour or so of conversation I decided to help work on her campaign.

    I made a friend in the process and have a good chance of getting rid of the F rated incumbent that lives 3 blocks from me.

    I do have more time than most since I am mostly retired, but I have met and talked with every candidate I intend to vote for in this state. Some of which are my 2nd choices but all are pro 2a and most know who I am.

    Sad to say, I am not voting for my first choice in the national election, but I still have a RP sign in my yard! The rest will go up this weekend which is as soon as local rules allow.

    Ed, All politics is local, it's the trickle up rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I had a LOL moment about this topic a year or so ago...
    I was at an OC awareness event, carrying my full-size Glock, with other people carrying their full-size shiny chromed whatevers.
    I got to talking with the driver of the billboard truck, we were there chatting for several minutes, and he eventually asked (just to be sure) if OC is legal in WI. He pointed to one of the guys with a large shiny something in his holster.
    I smiled & said, "yes it is. Look at my hip."
    He looked, & visibly flinched.
    We'd been standing pretty much within arm's reach for close to 5 minutes, with him on my strong side, & he hadn't noticed. Yet the shiny whatsis 30' away caught his attention.
    He didn't seem to be upset, just startled that he hadn't noticed.

    Got a similar reaction (being within arm's reach, but not noticing the pistol) when I met my lawyers for the first time.
    Now I know why you got popped by those nitwit cops.....you carry a Glock......serves ya right......Glock, heck they ain't even Americun.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I guess he was a little surprised to see a woman carrying a Glock on her hip. The fact that they'd been talking for several minutes and he'd completely failed to note the weapon on her hip kinda took him by surprise...LOL.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    I did PM WCEarp. The tone on the forum has improved greatly since last year, I am greatly impressed!!!!

    a few folks have PMd aboput OC awareness. many around the State have done a lot of this, of course every one is entitled to do as they wish. Believe me, we have the eyes and ears of the legislature, the worst thing that can possibly happen is bad press. The OC folks around MO have done a great job of being in the public eye and for th emost part all is going darn well in the world of public opinon. We desperately need to keep OC positive. Two "incidents" over the past two years did not serve our cause well. Word spreads very fast via the media about firearms.

    The days of increasing public awareness are past, we got a lot of it from STL to KC and North to south. Nest step I hope is action in Capitol City.

    Ya all been great and an 2013 could be our year? Be careful out there, many more people are joining this and other forums and asking more questions about OC and OC rights, that's a good thing. In the STL area (NOT IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS) we have had a few get togethers with some new folks and the KC side seems to grow by leeps and bounds. Stay "legal" and hopefully no problems in the future.

    Think 2013 could be the year! So far, look'in good, real good!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Regular Member WCEarp's Avatar
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    "A fool and his money shall soon part ways"

    Why oh why must Summit Gun Broker have good sales to make me part with my hard earned cash. Ordered up a Sig P226 from him today.

    Now when my schedule doesn't conflict with a meet and greet dinner, someday maybe, I won't feel like the odd man out. Wish I could make it out east for pizza and shooting. I got relatives out that way and it just sounds fun.

    Here's hoping to see you guys soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    By the way, the last time I referred to Marines as "troops"......well, let me just say that the outcome was not pretty.
    Marines? They are part of the Navy. They are Navy boys.


    Go Air Force! (I aimed high -- should have aimed higher? lol)

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    Regular Member WCEarp's Avatar
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    My Axx Rides In Navy Equipment


    Fly, Fight, Win. Go Air Force!

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    Ahhh i see

    As to how to dress, well here on OCDO, the Missouri forum there is an unwritten rule that if you change your attire "ass-less chaps" are indeed the only acceptable alternative, you may then rock out with your glock out.

    Due to age and body type, the general consensus remains that I should continue to dress "normal" instead.

    I have noted folks in all forms of dress so to speak, from shorts and a tee shirt to slacks and a tie. I can be found in jeans, 511 cargo pants, shorts and a wide variety of shirts on any given day.

    As far as which firearm, xd subcompact works well, springer full size 1911 fits the bill well also and if it is an upscale occasion you may find me with a 686 6 inch wearing my cowboy boots, it pretty well varies as dictated by my lovely maiden, she tends to want things to match and what not. She is in Detroit for a few weeks so rest assured, I may be spotted wearing blue shorts with a purple shirt and black tennis shoes for the simple reason that is what was on top in the drawers in her absence.

    As far as how to draft a letter, opinions vary. I like the short and sweet bullet point type, no pun intended. Many of the reps get too much mail and have little time to read it. Short and clear notes send the message without clouding it up with extra words. example:

    dear rep bob,

    I have reviewed the bills going forward this year and sb 680 peaked my interest as I really like common sense laws and 680 makes sense. The idea that local politicians can make something illegal that is a protected right simply because of their geographic location in our state has always been stupid.

    Thank you for supporting my views and correcting this problem and voting sb 680 into law and eliminating the confusion that the current law allows to exist.

    It is appreciated and will be remembered,

    that lmtd guy

    Again, there is a lot of varied thoughts on it, but mine are always right, just ask me...

    Others like longer versions, I save that for the forums.

    Most importantly, understand that views around here are vast and folks can fuss a bit for a host of reasons so keep your skin thick and worry not, it is after all just the internet and staying up into the wee hours of the night just because someone is "wrong" on the internet, well it will just burn you out fast, especially if you argue with someone as relentless as myself who has near 0 stopping sense and can be quite unreasonable

    IMHO, the key is to support the right of choice in your method of carry and do so loud and clear. It is actually not about openly carrying a firearm, it is about having the CHOICE to do so if it fits you and respecting all other responsible adults to make that choice for themselves. Many who support the effort indeed never OC as they have a preference of CC which is cool as well. I have attended OC events carrying concealed myself, a great many of them actually.

    The point is simple, you should NOT be molested by the government for not hiding your gun in any location you are allowed to be in the great state of Missouri, it should be YOUR choice.

    Welcome to the forum.
    Last edited by LMTD; 10-27-2012 at 09:09 AM.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    As to how to dress, well here on OCDO, the Missouri forum there is an unwritten rule that if you change your attire "ass-less chaps" are indeed the only acceptable alternative, you may then rock out with your glock out.

    LMAO!!!!!! Ah, ah, ahhhhhhh, ohhhhhhhhhh, I am crying..... why was that so funny???

    Where can I get THAT t-shirt?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterarthur View Post
    LMAO!!!!!! Ah, ah, ahhhhhhh, ohhhhhhhhhh, I am crying..... why was that so funny???

    Where can I get THAT t-shirt?
    Answered my own question... http://www.teeshirtpalace.com/rooutw...FVBgMgodCU4Aqg

    Of course there is a shirt
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME
    Now I know why you got popped by those nitwit cops... you carry a Glock...
    serves ya right... Glock, heck they ain't even Americun.
    Except for the ones made in Georgia (the US state, not the European country).
    And I've got a retired Milwaukee PD Glock, so I know they didn't used to be against good machinery.
    (Only seemed fair, after what they put me through.)

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterarthur View Post
    Answered my own question... http://www.teeshirtpalace.com/rooutw...FVBgMgodCU4Aqg

    Of course there is a shirt
    BTW, Am I the only one that noticed that the silhouette is a Beretta?? lame...
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