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Thread: Lakota Sioux Secede from America

  1. #1
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Lakota Sioux Secede from America

    Back in 07? I always thought AZ would be first LOL.

    I know they refused the judgement money but I wonder if they still collect other Federal money.

    http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2012/10...s-america.html

  2. #2
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i have often wondered about the duality of the nations any way. why should the red man get to be
    American when it benifits them but a memeber of the natons when that benifits them. why not just be an American citizen and live by the same rules we all do

    and exactly how many generations does it take to be a native of the north western hemisphere any way?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    The fastest way to lose all credibility is to call Ward Churchill a "historian".

    And I say that as somebody who thinks Custer didn't get half of what was coming to him.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Just Go Away: Why the American Indian Needs to Leave the United States…Forever by Bill Buppert

    "ALL nations are born in divorce and secession from other imperial or dying nation-states. It is the natural ecology of governments around the world as they create unsustainable hothouses of dependency and oppression that inspire the orchids of liberty that briefly spawn. I say briefly because the fire of liberty and freedom is usually quickly extinguished by the weed of rot and tyranny we call modern government.
    ...
    If any interest group in the US has a more vested interest and legitimate complaint than the aboriginal Americans to leave the tentacled and fatal embrace of the US government, it is the Indians. May they prosper and see the light that the path to prosperity is not the government dole from an alien occupier but self-determination and freedom in the sphere of the city state or better yet, no state at all."

    http://zerogov.com/?p=2631

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    Want to see how federal $$ effects a community -- look no further than Haiti -- see how that turned out. And most indians are in no better a position...

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    The American Indian gets this "dual" citizen ship as an apology to the way they were treated 100-150 years ago, also why they can have a casino on the reservation. The rest of us are living on their tribal land.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    why not just be an American citizen and live by the same rules we all do
    Why don't you just be a loyal subject of the Crown and live by the same rules the other Brits do?

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    I love how, even in 2012, there are still people who refer to them as "Indians" or "American Indians." It reminds me of Louis C.K.'s recent bit...

  9. #9
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV XD9 View Post
    I love how, even in 2012, there are still people who refer to them as "Indians" or "American Indians." It reminds me of Louis C.K.'s recent bit...
    It's no less accurate than anything else, given that there are NO "native" Americans.

    H o m o (retarded content filter) sapiens are NATIVE to ONE continent, AFRICA.
    Last edited by Deanimator; 10-05-2012 at 05:38 PM.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    It's no less accurate than anything else, given that there are NO "native" Americans.

    H o m o (retarded content filter) sapiens are NATIVE to ONE continent, AFRICA.
    Yeah, that's just retarded. It's almost as if you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

    Just because we all originated from Africa does not mean that we can't refer to people indigenous to a certain region as being native to that region.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    His point being that they migrated here, they weren't "native" in that sense.

    But they were the first to migrate here and establish societies for thousands of years before "native" white Europeans eventually also migrated here to compete with them.

    I have much sympathy for the American Indian (which I understand is a term that they recognize and apply to themselves without any degree of being derogatory, despite its historical misnomer status.) I see no easy answer to combine our societies fairly. Not after it was screwed up centuries ago.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    Then use the term American Aboriginal...
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

  13. #13
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    Then use the term American Aboriginal...
    How about American Original

    What was the name for this continent before Amerigo Vespucci came around?

    If Indian is wrong then so is American anything (I'm not saying Native American's don't belong to this political/territorial/nation, I'm saying if we're going on semantics let's call them by what they called this land before it was named America).


    ETA: Wow, I knew there were a lot of tribes but wow.

    I did not verify this information.

    http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...sage705293/pg4


    A
    A'ananin (Aane), Abenaki (Abnaki, Abanaki, Abenaqui), Absaalooke (Absaroke), Achumawi (Achomawi), Acjachemen, Acoma, Agua Caliente, Adai, Ahtna (Atna), Ajachemen, Akimel O'odham, Akwaala (Akwala), Alabama-Coushatta, Aleut, Alutiiq, Algonquians (Algonkians), Algonquin (Algonkin), Alliklik, Alnobak (Alnôbak, Alnombak), Alsea (Älsé, Alseya), Andaste, Anishinaabe (Anishinabemowin, Anishnabay), Aniyunwiya, Antoniaño, Apache, Apalachee, Applegate, Apsaalooke (Apsaroke), Arapaho (Arapahoe), Arawak, Arikara, Assiniboine, Atakapa, Atikamekw, Atsina, Atsugewi (Atsuke), Araucano (Araucanian), Avoyel (Avoyelles), Ayisiyiniwok, Aymara, Aztec

    B
    Babine, Bannock, Barbareño, Bari, Bear River, Beaver, Bella Bella, Bella Coola, Beothuks (Betoukuag), Bidai, Biloxi, Black Carib, Blackfoot (Blackfeet), Blood Indians, Bora

    C
    Caddo (Caddoe), Cahita, Cahto, Cahuilla, Calapooya (Calapuya, Calapooia), Calusa (Caloosa), Carib, Carquin, Carrier, Caska, Catawba, Cathlamet, Cayuga, Cayuse, Celilo, Central Pomo, Chahta, Chalaque, Chappaquiddick (Chappaquiddic, Chappiquidic), Chawchila (Chawchilla), Chehalis, Chelan, Chemehuevi, Cheraw, Cheroenhaka (Cheroenkhaka, Cherokhaka), Cherokee, Cheyenne (Cheyanne), Chickamaugan, Chickasaw, Chilcotin, Chilula-Wilkut, Chimariko, Chinook, Chinook Jargon, Chipewyan (Chipewyin), Chippewa, Chitimacha (Chitamacha), Chocheno, Choctaw, Cholon, Chontal de Tabasco (Chontal Maya), Choynimni (Choinimni), Chukchansi, Chumash, Clackamas (Clackama), Clallam, Clatskanie (Clatskanai), Clatsop, Cmique, Coastal Cree, Cochimi, Cochiti, Cocopa (Cocopah), Coeur d'Alene, Cofan, Columbia (Columbian), Colville, Comanche, Comcaac, Comox, Conestoga, Coos (Coosan), Copper River Athabaskan, Coquille, Cora, Coso, Costanoan, Coushatta, Cowichan, Cowlitz, Cree, Creek, Croatan (Croatoan), Crow, Cruzeño, Cuna, Cucupa (Cucapa), Cupeño (Cupa), Cupik (Cu'pik, Cuit)

    D
    Dakelh, Dakota, Dakubetede, Dawson, Deg Xinag (Deg Hit'an), Delaware, Dena'ina (Denaina), Dene, Dene Suline (Denesuline), Dene Tha, Diegueno, Dine (Dineh), Dogrib, Dohema (Dohma), Dumna, Dunne-za (Dane-zaa, Dunneza),

    E
    Eastern Inland Cree, Eastern Pomo, Eel River Athabascan, Eenou (Eeyou), Eskimo, Esselen, Etchemin (Etchimin), Euchee, Eudeve (Endeve), Excelen, Eyak

    F
    Fernandeno (Fernandeño), Flathead Salish, Fox

    G
    Gabrielino (Gabrieleño), Gae, Gaigwu, Galibi, Galice, Garifuna, Gashowu, Gitxsan (Gitksan), Gosiute (Goshute), Gros Ventre, Guarani, Guarijio (Guarijío), Gulf, Gwich'in (Gwichin, Gwitchin),

    H
    Haida, Haisla, Halkomelem (Halqomeylem), Hän (Han Hwech'in), Hanis, Hare, Hatteras, Haudenosaunee, Havasupai, Hawaiian, Heiltsuk, Heve, Hiaki, Hichiti (Hitchiti), Hidatsa, Hocak (Ho-Chunk, Hochunk), Holikachuk, Homalco, Hoopa, Hopi, Hopland Pomo, Hualapai, Huelel, Huichol, Huichun, Hupa, Huron

    I
    Illini (Illiniwek, Illinois), Inca, Ineseño (Inezeño), Ingalik (Ingalit), Innoko, Innu, Inuktitut (Inupiat, Inupiaq, Inupiatun), Iowa-Oto (Ioway), Iroquois Confederacy, Ishak, Isleño, Isleta, Itza Maya (Itzah), Iviatim, Iynu

    J
    James Bay Cree, Jemez, Juaneno (Juaneño), Juichun

    K
    Kabinapek, Kainai (Kainaiwa), Kalapuya (Kalapuyan, Kalapooya), Kalina (Kaliña), Kanenavish, Kanien'kehaka (Kanienkehaka), Kalispel, Kansa (Kanza, Kanze), Karankawa, Karkin, Karok (Karuk), Kashaya, Kaska, Kaskaskia, Kathlamet, Kato, Kaw, Kenaitze (Kenai), Keres (Keresan), Kichai, Kickapoo (Kikapu), Kiliwa (Kiliwi), Kiowa, Kiowa Apache, Kitanemuk, Kitsai, Klahoose, Klallam, Klamath-Modoc, Klatskanie (Klatskanai), Klatsop, Klickitat, Koasati, Kolchan, Konkow (Konkau), Konomihu, Kootenai (Ktunaxa, Kutenai), Koso, Koyukon, Kuitsh, Kulanapo (Kulanapan, Kulanapa), Kumeyaay (Kumiai), Kuna, Kupa, Kusan, Kuskokwim, Kutchin (Kootchin), Kwaiailk, Kwakiutl (Kwakwala), Kwalhioqua, Kwantlen, Kwapa (Kwapaw), Kwinault (Kwinayl)

    L
    Laguna, Lakhota (Lakota), Lakmiak (Lakmayut), Lassik, Laurentian (Lawrencian), Lecesem, Lenape (Lenni Lenape), Lillooet, Lipan Apache, Listiguj (Listuguj), Lnuk (L'nuk, L'nu'k, Lnu), Lokono, Loucheux (Loucheaux), Loup, Lower Chehalis, Lower Coquille, Lower Cowlitz, Lower Tanana, Lower Umpqua, Luckiamute (Lukiamute), Luiseño, Lumbee, Lummi, Lushootseed, Lutuamian

    M
    Macushi (Macusi), Mahican, Maidu, Maina (Mayna), Makah, Makushi, Maliseet (Maliceet, Malisit, Malisset), Mandan, Mapuche (Mapudungun, Mapudugan), Maricopa, Massachusett (Massachusetts), Massasoit (Massassoit, Mashpee), Mattabesic Mattole, Maumee, Matlatzinca, Mayan, Mayo, Mengwe, Menominee (Menomini), Mescalero-Chiricahua, Meskwaki (Mesquakie), Metis Creole, Miami-Illinois, Miccosukee, Michif, Micmac (Mi'gmaq), Migueleño, Mikasuki, Mi'kmaq (Mikmawisimk), Mingo, Minqua, Minsi, Minto, Miskito (Mosquito), Missouria, Miwok (Miwuk), Mixe, Mixtec (Mixteco, Mixteca), Mobilian Trade Jargon, Modoc, Mohave, Mohawk, Mohegan, Mohican, Mojave, Molale (Molalla, Molala), Monache (Mono), Montagnais, Montauk, Moosehide, Multnomah, Munsee (Munsie, Muncey, Muncie), Muskogee (Muscogee, Mvskoke), Musqueam, Mutsun

    N
    Nabesna, Nadot'en (Natoot'en, Natut'en), Nahane (Nahani, Nahanne), Nahuat, Nahuatl, Nakoda (Nakota), Nambe, Nanticoke, Nantucket, Narragansett, Naskapi, Nass-Gitxsan, Natchez, Natick, Naugutuck, Navajo (Navaho), Nawat, Nayhiyuwayin, Nde, Nee-me-poo, Nehiyaw (Nehiyawok), Netela, New Blackfoot, Newe, Nez Perce, Niantic, Nicola, Niitsipussin (Niitsitapi), Nimiipuu (Nimi'ipu), Nipmuc, Nisenan (Nishinam), Nisga'a (Nisgaa, Nishga), Nlaka'pamux (Nlakapamux), Nomlaki, Nooksack (Nooksak), Nootka (Nutka), Nootsak, Northeastern Pomo, Northern Carrier, Northern Cheyenne, Nottoway, Nuxalk

    O
    Obispeño, Ocuilteco, Odawa, Ofo, Ogahpah (Ogaxpa), Ohlone, Ojibwa (Ojibway, Ojibwe, Ojibwemowin), Oji-Cree, Okanagan (Okanogan), Okwanuchu, Old Blackfoot, Omaha-Ponca, Oneida, Onondaga, O'ob No'ok (O:b No'ok), O'odham (Oodham), Opata, Osage, Otchipwe, Otoe, Ottawa

    P
    Pai, Paipai, Paiute, Palaihnihan (Palaihnih, Palahinihan), Palewyami, Palouse, Pamlico, Panamint, Papago-Pima, Pascua Yaqui, Passamaquoddy, Patuxet, Patwin, Paugussett (Paugusset), Pawnee, Peigan, Pend D'Oreille, Penobscot (Pentagoet), Pentlatch (Pentlach), Peoria, Pequot, Picuris, Piegan (Piikani), Pima, Pima Bajo, Pipil, Pit River, Plains Indian Sign Language, Pojoaque, Pomo (Pomoan), Ponca, Poospatuck (Poosepatuk, Poospatuk, Poosepatuck), Popoluca (Popoloca), Potawatomi (Pottawatomie, Potawatomie), Powhatan, Pueblo, Puget Sound Salish, Purisimeño, Putún

    Q
    Quapaw (Quapa), Quechan, Quechua, Quilcene, Quileute, Quinault, Quinnipiac (Quinnipiack), Quiripi

    R
    Raramuri, Red Indians, Restigouche, Rumsen, Runasimi

    S
    Saanich, Sac, Sahaptin, Salhulhtxw, Salinan, Salish, Samish, Sandia, Sanish (Sahnish), San Felipe, San Ildefonso, San Juan, Sanpoil, Santa Ana, Santa Clara, Santiam, Santo Domingo, Saponi, Sarcee (Sarsi), Sastean (Sasta), Satsop, Savannah, Sauk, Saulteaux, Schaghticoke (Scaticook), Sechelt, Secwepemc (Secwepmectsin), Sekani, Selkirk, Seminoles, Seneca, Seri, Serrano, Seshelt, Severn Ojibwe, Shanel, Shasta (Shastan), Shawnee (Shawano), Shinnecock, Shoshone (Shoshoni), Shuar, Shuswap, Siksika (Siksikawa), Siletz, Similkameen, Sinkiuse (Sincayuse), Sinkyone, Sioux, Siuslaw, Skagit, Skicin, S'Klallam, Skokomish, Skraeling, Skwamish, Slavey (Slave, Slavi), Sliammon (Sliamon), Sm'algyax, Snichim, Snohomish, Songish, Sooke, Souriquois (Sourquois), Southeastern Pomo, Southern Paiute, Spokane (Spokan), Squamish, Sqwxwu7mesh, Stadaconan, St'at'imcets (St'at'imc), Stockbridge, Sto:lo, Stoney, Straits Salish, Sugpiaq, Suquamish, Susquehannock, Suwal, Swampy Cree, Swinomish

    T
    Tabasco Chontal, Tachi (Tache), Taensa, Tahltan, Tagish, Tahcully, Taino, Takelma (Takilma), Takla, Taltushtuntude, Tamyen, Tanacross, Tanaina, Tanana, Tano, Taos, Tarahumara, Tataviam, Tauira (Tawira), Teguime, Tehachapi, Ten'a, Tenino, Tepehuano (Tepecano), Tequistlateco (Tequistlatec), Tesuque, Tetes-de-Boules, Tewa, Thompson, Tigua, Tillamook, Timbisha (Timbasha), Timucua, Tinde, Tinneh, Tiwa, Tjekan, Tlahuica (Tlahura), Tlatskanie (Tlatskanai), Tlatsop, Tlicho Dinne, Tlingit, Tohono O'odham, Tolowa, Tongva, Tonkawa, Towa, Tsalagi (Tsa-la-gi), Tsattine, Tsekani (Tsek'ehne), Tsetsehestahese, Tsetsaut, Tsilhqot'in (Tzilkotin), Tsimshian (Tsimpshian), Tsitsistas, Tsooke, Tsoyaha, Tsuu T'ina (Tsuutina), Tualatin, Tubar (Tubare), Tubatulabal, Takudh, Tulalip, Tumpisa (Tümbisha, Tumbisha), Tunica, Tupi, Tuscarora, Tutchone, Tutelo, Tututni, Tuwa'duqutsid, Twana, Twatwa (Twightwee)

    U
    Uchi (Uche, Uchee), Ukiah (Ukian, Uki, Ukia), Ukomnom, Umatilla, Unami, Unangan (Unangax), Unkechaug (Unquachog) Upper Chehalis, Upper Chinook, Upper Cowlitz, Upper Tanana, Upper Umpqua, Ute

    V
    Ventureño, Virginian Algonkin

    W
    Wailaki (Wailakki), Wailatpu (Waylatpu), Walapai, Walla Walla, Wampano, Wampanoag, Wanapam, Wanki (Wangki), Wappinger, Wappo, Warijio (Warihio, Warijío), Warm Springs, Wasco-Wishram, Washo (Washoe), Wazhazhe, Wea, Wenatchi (Wenatchee), Wendat, Weott, Western Pomo, Whilkut, White Clay People, Wichita (Witchita), Wikchamni, Willapa (Willopah), Winnebago, Wintu (Wintun), Wishram, Witsuwit'en (Witsuwiten), Wiyot (Wi'yot, Wishosk), Wolastoqewi (Wolastoqiyik), Wyandot (Wyandotte)

    Y
    Yakama (Yakima), Yanesha, Yaquina (Yakonan, Yakon), Yavapai, Yawelmani, Yaqui, Yinka Dene, Yneseño (Ynezeño), Yocot'an, Yokaia (Yakaya), Yokuts (Yokut, Yokutsan), Yoncalla (Yonkalla), Yowlumni, Ysleño, Ysleta del Sur, Yucatec Maya (Yucateco, Yucatan), Yuchi (Yuchee) Yuki (Yukian), Yuma, Yupik (Yu'pik, Yuit), Yurok (Yu'rok)

    Z
    Zapotec, Zia, Zimshian, Zoque, Zuni
    Last edited by sharkey; 10-21-2012 at 05:34 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Maybe they were American after all?

    http://humansarefree.com/2012/03/ame...vian-name.html

  15. #15
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    They were blood thirsty savages back then. Now they are the prototypical "wards of the state", beneficiaries of the Great White Father's largesse so to speak. It is unfortunate that not all Indians are enjoying this economic renaissance that a few in the tribes are experiencing. Seems fairly typical for any culture. A few vs. the many.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    They were blood thirsty savages back then. Now they are the prototypical "wards of the state", beneficiaries of the Great White Father's largesse so to speak. It is unfortunate that not all Indians are enjoying this economic renaissance that a few in the tribes are experiencing. Seems fairly typical for any culture. A few vs. the many.
    Yes the the United State said you are savages we know better our way of free markets and capitalism are the best so to ensure that you remain impotent we will confine your tribes to communistic ruler-ship and dependency.

    Is that purple or fuscia? Sarcasm (yet truthful in my opinion)

    The poorest people in this country are in some Indian tribes, does socialism/communism work? Nope it does away with motivation and incentive to work. It worked so well with Indians our government moved to implement it with all other ethnicities, yet crying out how it is hatred and racial bigotry not to support stealing from others to give to those whom they falsely and with much bigotry assume cannot take care of themselves or adapt to live in "American" society.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yes the the United State said you are savages we know better our way of free markets and capitalism are the best so to ensure that you remain impotent we will confine your tribes to communistic ruler-ship and dependency.

    Is that purple or fuscia? Sarcasm (yet truthful in my opinion)

    The poorest people in this country are in some Indian tribes, does socialism/communism work? Nope it does away with motivation and incentive to work. It worked so well with Indians our government moved to implement it with all other ethnicities, yet crying out how it is hatred and racial bigotry not to support stealing from others to give to those whom they falsely and with much bigotry assume cannot take care of themselves or adapt to live in "American" society.
    The tribes are solely responsible for their people's plight.

    "OH! But you are not from my tribe, you are from the tribe that is the enemy of my tribe, have been for a thousand years. So, you get no benefit from our casino profits."

    If the Indians want to "stick it to the long knives" they need to put aside their petty differences and work to improve their own situation(s). It appears they are a long way from working together.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The tribes are solely responsible for their people's plight.

    "OH! But you are not from my tribe, you are from the tribe that is the enemy of my tribe, have been for a thousand years. So, you get no benefit from our casino profits."

    If the Indians want to "stick it to the long knives" they need to put aside their petty differences and work to improve their own situation(s). It appears they are a long way from working together.

    Well of course. Why do you think U.S. worked hard to isolate them and confine them to little pockets or reservations. Harder to unite that way.

    They are responsible for their own plight but to ignore the moral hazard provided for by our government would be a folly. Just like welfare programs today provide a reason for people not to work, not have a family, not to be responsible.

    Not all tribes were violent fighters of each other, there was a large confederacy that existed long before a U.S. confederacy and before Europeans arrived. Many native groups didn't understand the very violent means of settling things many European settlers had.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Everything OC for ME knows about Native Americans he learned from John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. Hell, he probably thinks we liberated the Philippines. And Hawaii.

    Typical rah-rah America-does-no-wrong crap.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Everything OC for ME knows about Native Americans he learned from John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. Hell, he probably thinks we liberated the Philippines. And Hawaii.

    Typical rah-rah America-does-no-wrong crap.
    America can do no wrong in my view.

    "Is there things in America that need fixing" is not a unreasonable question. A more accurate question, also in my view, "what is it in America that needs fixing." Once that question is answered then the "how to fix what is wrong in America" can be answered or at least discussed. The crux of the preceding two questions is that there are two predominate differing opinions as to the answers.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Well of course. Why do you think U.S. worked hard to isolate them and confine them to little pockets or reservations. Harder to unite that way.

    They are responsible for their own plight but to ignore the moral hazard provided for by our government would be a folly. Just like welfare programs today provide a reason for people not to work, not have a family, not to be responsible.

    Not all tribes were violent fighters of each other, there was a large confederacy that existed long before a U.S. confederacy and before Europeans arrived. Many native groups didn't understand the very violent means of settling things many European settlers had.
    You seem to continue to cling to a outdated notion that the Indian has a low capability for self improvement. Motivation for self improvement is a different issue and the Indians do not hold a monopoly on motivation or the lack there of. This is 2012. It's not like we have fur traders delivering cases of "firewater" to the Indians in the dead of night to keep them drunk and happy on the reservation. By the way, "whiskey" is likely a major factor in the downfall of the plains Indian tribes.

    The Indians I have met, not all that many to tell the truth, were & are quite capable of "leaving the reservation" and making their own way in the "white man's world." Are they any less Indian for their efforts to succeed in "our" world? I contend that they are just as much a Indian as a Indian on a reservation. From the meager experiences I have had with Indians they are quite capable and are typically quite successful. I suspect that more than half of the Indians in this country do not reside on a reservation.

    History is history. The plight of the Indian today is one of apathy on the part of the various tribes, their members, and the federal government. If a large enough majority of the Indians in this country were to unite as a voting block, a super PAC if you will, then the plight of the Native-American will be of a high priority in the halls of Congress. It is a white man's world off the reservation and I suspect that the majority of Indians are quite comfortable and likely relatively successful off the reservation.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  22. #22
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    Sad News

    Russell Means passed away.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
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    I wonder what that bodes for the future of the Republic of Lakotah...

  24. #24
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The tribes are solely responsible for their people's plight.
    A person is responsible for their own plight.
    I’m proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    You seem to continue to cling to a outdated notion that the Indian has a low capability for self improvement. Motivation for self improvement is a different issue and the Indians do not hold a monopoly on motivation or the lack there of. This is 2012. It's not like we have fur traders delivering cases of "firewater" to the Indians in the dead of night to keep them drunk and happy on the reservation. By the way, "whiskey" is likely a major factor in the downfall of the plains Indian tribes.

    The Indians I have met, not all that many to tell the truth, were & are quite capable of "leaving the reservation" and making their own way in the "white man's world." Are they any less Indian for their efforts to succeed in "our" world? I contend that they are just as much a Indian as a Indian on a reservation. From the meager experiences I have had with Indians they are quite capable and are typically quite successful. I suspect that more than half of the Indians in this country do not reside on a reservation.

    History is history. The plight of the Indian today is one of apathy on the part of the various tribes, their members, and the federal government. If a large enough majority of the Indians in this country were to unite as a voting block, a super PAC if you will, then the plight of the Native-American will be of a high priority in the halls of Congress. It is a white man's world off the reservation and I suspect that the majority of Indians are quite comfortable and likely relatively successful off the reservation.
    Uh I cling to no such notion and do believe sir you have misunderstood my posts.

    Most people are capable of taking care of themselves no matter what the cultural or ethnic background, why do many not? Because of the moral hazard provided by the government. My point is that history of U.S. dealings with the first nations is just proof of this.

    Yes I know many successful Indians, many are my family members... they reject government slavery and made a life for themselves.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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