Lakota Sioux Secede from America

OC for ME · Oct 23, 2012

sudden valley gunner said:
Well of course. Why do you think U.S. worked hard to isolate them and confine them to little pockets or reservations. Harder to unite that way.

They are responsible for their own plight but to ignore the moral hazard provided for by our government would be a folly. Just like welfare programs today provide a reason for people not to work, not have a family, not to be responsible.

Not all tribes were violent fighters of each other, there was a large confederacy that existed long before a U.S. confederacy and before Europeans arrived. Many native groups didn't understand the very violent means of settling things many European settlers had.

You seem to continue to cling to a outdated notion that the Indian has a low capability for self improvement. Motivation for self improvement is a different issue and the Indians do not hold a monopoly on motivation or the lack there of. This is 2012. It's not like we have fur traders delivering cases of "firewater" to the Indians in the dead of night to keep them drunk and happy on the reservation. By the way, "whiskey" is likely a major factor in the downfall of the plains Indian tribes.

The Indians I have met, not all that many to tell the truth, were & are quite capable of "leaving the reservation" and making their own way in the "white man's world." Are they any less Indian for their efforts to succeed in "our" world? I contend that they are just as much a Indian as a Indian on a reservation. From the meager experiences I have had with Indians they are quite capable and are typically quite successful. I suspect that more than half of the Indians in this country do not reside on a reservation.

History is history. The plight of the Indian today is one of apathy on the part of the various tribes, their members, and the federal government. If a large enough majority of the Indians in this country were to unite as a voting block, a super PAC if you will, then the plight of the Native-American will be of a high priority in the halls of Congress. It is a white man's world off the reservation and I suspect that the majority of Indians are quite comfortable and likely relatively successful off the reservation.

Citizen · Oct 23, 2012

Sad News

Russell Means passed away.

PistolPackingMomma · Oct 23, 2012

I wonder what that bodes for the future of the Republic of Lakotah...

jbone · Oct 24, 2012

OC for ME said:
The tribes are solely responsible for their people's plight.

A person is responsible for their own plight.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 24, 2012

OC for ME said:
You seem to continue to cling to a outdated notion that the Indian has a low capability for self improvement. Motivation for self improvement is a different issue and the Indians do not hold a monopoly on motivation or the lack there of. This is 2012. It's not like we have fur traders delivering cases of "firewater" to the Indians in the dead of night to keep them drunk and happy on the reservation. By the way, "whiskey" is likely a major factor in the downfall of the plains Indian tribes.

The Indians I have met, not all that many to tell the truth, were & are quite capable of "leaving the reservation" and making their own way in the "white man's world." Are they any less Indian for their efforts to succeed in "our" world? I contend that they are just as much a Indian as a Indian on a reservation. From the meager experiences I have had with Indians they are quite capable and are typically quite successful. I suspect that more than half of the Indians in this country do not reside on a reservation.

History is history. The plight of the Indian today is one of apathy on the part of the various tribes, their members, and the federal government. If a large enough majority of the Indians in this country were to unite as a voting block, a super PAC if you will, then the plight of the Native-American will be of a high priority in the halls of Congress. It is a white man's world off the reservation and I suspect that the majority of Indians are quite comfortable and likely relatively successful off the reservation.

Uh I cling to no such notion and do believe sir you have misunderstood my posts.

Most people are capable of taking care of themselves no matter what the cultural or ethnic background, why do many not? Because of the moral hazard provided by the government. My point is that history of U.S. dealings with the first nations is just proof of this.

Yes I know many successful Indians, many are my family members... they reject government slavery and made a life for themselves.

Citizen · Oct 24, 2012

altajava said:
The American Indian gets this "dual" citizen ship as an apology to the way they were treated 100-150 years ago, also why they can have a casino on the reservation. The rest of us are living on their tribal land.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I have seen through this particular myth.

Their tribal land? They didn't own the land any more than anybody else did. They didn't manufacture it by their own labor.

Some of them, as nomadic people, did not recognize property rights in the land. Perhaps none of them did.

They had no more right to claim an entire continent as their own, nor deny white settlement, than the whites did to push them into little reservations from a property rights point of view.

Citizen · Oct 24, 2012

carsontech said:
Just Go Away: Why the American Indian Needs to Leave the United States…Forever by Bill Buppert

"ALL nations are born in divorce and secession from other imperial or dying nation-states. It is the natural ecology of governments around the world as they create unsustainable hothouses of dependency and oppression that inspire the orchids of liberty that briefly spawn. I say briefly because the fire of liberty and freedom is usually quickly extinguished by the weed of rot and tyranny we call modern government.
...
If any interest group in the US has a more vested interest and legitimate complaint than the aboriginal Americans to leave the tentacled and fatal embrace of the US government, it is the Indians. May they prosper and see the light that the path to prosperity is not the government dole from an alien occupier but self-determination and freedom in the sphere of the city state or better yet, no state at all."

http://zerogov.com/?p=2631

Great post! Thanks for passing it along.

I thing that very last clause might give a clue to the Indian's plight.

Who wants to take a bet as to whether the tribal councils (government) have something to do with their problems? Government is government. Human nature is human nature. There is no reason not to think that tribal governments don't include duplicitous, deceitful, self-interested, power-hungry individuals sucking the life out their people for their own benefit.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 24, 2012

Citizen said:
Great post! Thanks for passing it along.

I thing that very last clause might give a clue to the Indian's plight.

Who wants to take a bet as to whether the tribal councils (government) have something to do with their problems? Government is government. Human nature is human nature. There is no reason not to think that tribal governments don't include duplicitous, deceitful, self-interested, power-hungry individuals sucking the life out their people for their own benefit.

Oh yes government is government, my cousins browner than me will say the same thing.

Last council meeting I attended a local Indian lady to the council...

" You promised us everything will be better when your budget was 5 million a year, then you talked us into the casino for internal improvements and jobs you now have a budget of 80 million why are we not any better.."

I was half owner of a native american (pardon my use of the term) and dealt with the corruption often, sometimes you are more disillusioned because these are your family your relatives you expect more.

Lance Morgan from the Winnebago tribe in an "indianpreneurship" seminar I went too, gives similar advice as Carsontech and your quotes. The best way to do best for you and your tribe is stop relying on the Feds.

carsontech · Oct 24, 2012

sudden valley gunner said:
Lance Morgan from the Winnebago tribe in an "indianpreneurship" seminar I went too, gives similar advice as Carsontech and your quotes. The best way to do best for you and your tribe is stop relying on the Feds.

Just so others are aware, what I posted earlier in this thread was not my work, but Bill's from zerogov.com. I agree with what he said 100%, though.

OC for ME · Oct 25, 2012

sudden valley gunner said:
Uh I cling to no such notion and do believe sir you have misunderstood my posts.

Most people are capable of taking care of themselves no matter what the cultural or ethnic background, why do many not? Because of the moral hazard provided by the government. My point is that history of U.S. dealings with the first nations is just proof of this.

Yes I know many successful Indians, many are my family members... they reject government slavery and made a life for themselves.

I see, your prespective is from a historical nature, I think. Mine is from a more recent perspective. I little use history other than to frame a current context to my views.

+1 to you Sir for allowing me to see your views more clearly.....I think.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 25, 2012

Any unclearness was more than likely on me. I have long came to accept the fact that most times I just don't think like others.

OC for ME · Oct 25, 2012

I hold in low regard those who think like other folks think. Unless, of course, they think like me.

In Paris they simply stared when I spoke to them in French; I never did succeed in making those idiots understand their language. - Mark Twain

Or

The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug. - Mark Twain

Lakota Sioux Secede from America

OC for ME

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Citizen

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jbone

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sudden valley gunner

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Citizen

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sudden valley gunner

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OC for ME

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sudden valley gunner

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OC for ME

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