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Thread: If you open carry, people will test you.........

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    If you open carry, people will test you.........

    The first time I heard this was in my CCDW class. Since the instructor makes money off of teaching CCDW classes, I wrote his statement off as a way of him pushing for CC. But I bet over the last month I have heard 5 or 6 people say this. A couple had their CCDW so I assume their instuctor told them the same thing and they took it to heart. But the others didn't have a CCDW and said that they would like to OC but was afraid of being "tested".

    I have only been OC'ing for a few years now and I have never had a problem (not like that). Have any of you ever been "tested" for OC'ing?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Tested how, and by who?

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    It is (mostly) a myth. You will not get "tested" any more than what you would be if you weren't carrying. If you are hanging around shady places you will get tested more whether you are OCing or not. If you stay in places considered "safe" you probably won't.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Additionally, it depends upon how you carry yourself and present yourself to others around you. If you come off as someone that's scared or frightened by the fact of OC when you first start, others WILL pick up on it and might try to "test" you on the matter. If you equip yourself with the knowledge of the laws surrounding OC and the facts of the matter, you will build confidence and in a few outings, you will be more confident and aware of those around you. You have to carry yourself asthough you belong wherever it is that you are.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I have OC'd since 1970..what kind of "test" is he talking about?

    My BIL tried to remove my carry once (I was allowing him to try) but couldn't figure out how to get it out of the holster...then he said: "Ok, where is the button?" (custom leather holster, no button, it just comes out one way, or it does not budge...can't be removed from behind.


    Is that what you are talking about? If it is. it just doesn't happen.
    Last edited by hermannr; 10-04-2012 at 11:25 PM.

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    ...I assume the OP meant being challenged or confronted in some manner ...

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    I do poorly on tests except multiple choice tests.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ...I assume the OP meant being challenged or confronted in some manner ...
    Winner, winner....
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member mlr's Avatar
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    I have to believe that testing does happen now and then to open carriers. The same as it happens in everyday life when you have a person attempting to show how tough they are at the expense of another. There really are folks out there who will try to take down the baddest guy on the block for no other reason than to show their dominance. When it comes to firearms I would bet it will be more verbal testing by way of ridicule rather than inviting them out into the street at high noon.

    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    It is (mostly) a myth. You will not get "tested" any more than what you would be if you weren't carrying. If you are hanging around shady places you will get tested more whether you are OCing or not. If you stay in places considered "safe" you probably won't.
    I don't think that's completely accurate. If you are carrying in a lilly white neighborhood with a small PD, they will be on you ... but the right to keep and bear arms means little (see Katrina) if they can walk up to you and say "give me your gun". Heck, I have my guns to protect me from them...

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    Will this be a written or oral test?

    I hope it's multiple choice.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    Will this be a written or oral test?

    I hope it's multiple choice.
    For today it will be a written test. And yes, it's multiple choice.

    Q. You are walking down the road one sunny day OC'ing your brand new sidearm when you are approached by 3 young men. All 3 start harrassing you, asking questions such as "do you think you are a bad ass" and "do you even have the balls to use that thing" and so on. You would respond by:

    A. Curling up in a ball and cry like a little bitch.
    B. Tell the 3 young men to join OCDO.
    C. Start shooting them one by one.
    D. Go all Chuck Norris on them and round house kick them all in the head.
    E. None of the above.
    F. All of the above.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    For today it will be a written test. And yes, it's multiple choice.

    Q. You are walking down the road one sunny day OC'ing your brand new sidearm when you are approached by 3 young men. All 3 start harrassing you, asking questions such as "do you think you are a bad ass" and "do you even have the balls to use that thing" and so on. You would respond by:
    From http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...son-City/page3 here's how JahWarrior handled it:

    Yesterday, while walking through the parking lot of Walmart, I passed by a couple, arguing. Well, it was mostly the guy, calling his girlfriend a "f*ckin' moron," and throwing an empty water bottle at her head. I've learned my lesson intervening in these kind of things, and since he wasn't actually beating on her, I ignored them and kept walking. The guy, a white or hispanic guy, wearing Phillies gear from head to toe, and covered in bad tattoos, saw me walking in their direction. I was carrying my gun crossdraw, so it's quick to spot. He stood by his car, forgetting about belittling his grilfriend for the moment. He stared at me, angrily, as I walked. As I passed him, I heard him hiss, "Oh, a f*ckin' tough guy, huh?" I ignored him, and kept walking. He then said, "Yo! You! With the gun!" I turned and faced him, from about 40' away.

    "What do you want?" I said.

    "Think you're a tough guy with that f*ckin' gun?"

    I considered him for a moment, then laughed, and turned around, and continued on my way. I heard him yell out, "Yeah, keep walkin', b!tch. You know you don't want none of this!" I turned my head to look at him as I walked away, and he had his arms raised, in a challenging posture. I then laughed again, and kept walking. "Yo, what the f*ck are you laughin' at, b!tch?" He started to walk after me. "I'm talkin' at you, muthaf*cka! Who you laughin' at?"

    I stopped and turned around, putting my left hand on the butt of my gun (it was set up for right handed crossdraw). "You take one more step towards me, and I'm gonna f*ck up your whole day, you understand?" He stopped suddenly, and glared at me.

    "You ain't gonna do sh!t."

    "Come closer and find out." He stood where he was, and wiped his palms on his thighs. "Keep your hands away from your pockets," I said.

    "Alright." He put his hands at his sides.

    "What the f*ck is your problem?"

    "I ain't gotta problem," he muttered, staring at his shoes.

    "I don't what the f*ck is wrong with you, and I don't care. I ain't your girl, and I ain't one of your homies you can talk sh!t to, because you act like some kind of f*cking tough guy with them. I don't know you from sh!t. You from around here?"

    "Nah."

    "Well, let me give you some advice. The next time you try this sh!t with someone, you better think about it, because the next dude might just shoot your stupid a$$ for actin' a fool. Now get the f*ck out of here."

    "Alright." He shuffled back towards his car, and his girlfriend was smirking at him. "The f*ck you smilin' at, b!tch? Get in the f*ckin' car, already!" They both vanished into their red Honda Accord, and I called the police anyway, giving them a full description of both of them, and their car and license plate number. Then I went about shopping.
    Does that answer your question?
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    The CC instructor in the OP is a bit limited in his imagination.

    I can still count the negative comments on one hand from five years of OCing. None were testing me. That is to say, none were trying to get under my skin. They were just complaining about guns.

    However, I have lost track of the number of positive comments I've received from total strangers regarding my OCd sidearm. I would guess somewhere in the vicinity of three dozen positive comments.

    The CC instructor in the OP just tossed out his first reaction/thought apparently never considering you might get lots and lots of positive comments.

    Probably has something to do with the fact that he's not imagining promoting self-defense by OCing.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    From http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...son-City/page3 here's how JahWarrior handled it:



    Does that answer your question?
    Awesome story
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    ......
    Last edited by self preservation; 10-15-2012 at 08:19 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    But, when the day comes that [dark/morbid] humor becomes a cause for arrest/trial, then I'm sure such humor and the utterance of it will be the least of our concerns
    Spending years in jail would probably never be the least of your concerns.

    It is bad to kill someone, even over your own/loved one's safety. It is much worse to have to spend a large portion of the rest of your life behind bars for it.

    I would suggest you editing your post (and asking KY to mirror it) to show your true intentions.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Spending years in jail would probably never be the least of your concerns.

    It is bad to kill someone, even over your own/loved one's safety. It is much worse to have to spend a large portion of the rest of your life behind bars for it.

    I would suggest you editing your post (and asking KY to mirror it) to show your true intentions.
    Wait, I'm confused now.

    I was meaning that if the use of our first amendment rights to speak a form of humour was ever to be the cause of arrest, as in the exercise of free speech became illegal, then the free exercise of free speech would be the leasto f our concerns, because if the First Amendment means nothing, then most, if not all of us on here, will have been jailed/put to death, for exercising our other rights. If the 1st amendment became illegal to use, then surely the 2nd, and 4th, and so on would also have been illegal along time ago, and we'd already have been thrown in jail for using our other amendments. And frankly, if I can't exercise my first amendment right, freely without risk of punishment, then I'd rather be put to death, or thrown in jail, because that's a time frame when everything we held dear has been destroyed.

    Also, in general, I'm so confused on why I should edit my post, and ask the same of Glockster? what true intentions?
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Damn, Drake....U scary...
    Also; Is that a reference to the videos from The Onion News Network, about scary planet? or the family episode about scary nature? :P

    Lets just say, I fit naturally in with October, it's the time of month I can use my normal method of 'joking' without causing alarm or making people think I went off the deep end. Ya know, Halloween and all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Wait, I'm confused now.

    I was meaning that if the use of our first amendment rights to speak a form of humour was ever to be the cause of arrest, as in the exercise of free speech became illegal, then the free exercise of free speech would be the leasto f our concerns, because if the First Amendment means nothing, then most, if not all of us on here, will have been jailed/put to death, for exercising our other rights. If the 1st amendment became illegal to use, then surely the 2nd, and 4th, and so on would also have been illegal along time ago, and we'd already have been thrown in jail for using our other amendments. And frankly, if I can't exercise my first amendment right, freely without risk of punishment, then I'd rather be put to death, or thrown in jail, because that's a time frame when everything we held dear has been destroyed.

    Also, in general, I'm so confused on why I should edit my post, and ask the same of Glockster? what true intentions?
    You absolutely have a right to free speech, but that right has been determined to not be absolute. If you were to speak of committing a crime, or how you would execute a crime, that speech could be determined to be non-protected speech. What you said is not about whether it is protected speech or not; what you said could be problematic if you were to ever harm someone with lethal force, and had a prosecutor that would use such an expression as leverage to make you seem intent on causing serious harm to others.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 10-10-2012 at 08:12 AM.
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    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  22. #22
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    You absolutely have a right to free speech, but that right has been determined to not be absolute. If you were to speak of committing a crime, or how you would execute a crime, that speech could be determined to be non-protected speech. What you said is not about whether it is protected speech or not; what you said could be problematic if you were to ever harm someone with lethal force, and had a prosecutor that would use such an expression as leverage to make you seem intent on causing serious harm to others.
    Hmm, well, I never intend to use my sidearm. And if I am placed in the position of defending myself in court for self-defense, I seriously doubt anything said, or not said, on this forum, "can and will be used against" me. Wouldn't it be circumstantial or libel or something, to take what someone said on a forum, out of context, and apply it to any future defense they may or may not have?

    Sorry, but I think your just making a big deal out of nothing, and being a bit too paranoid. I made a reference to the movie involving hannibal lecter, and even stated such in the latter half. Stop dragging every word I said out and hashing and re-hasing it to try and brow beat me into taking it back.

    Yes, certain things of speech are not protected, however, there are no laws protecting, nor denying, the ability to freely joke and make snarky comments.
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    Drake, you have it all wrong. Glockster and I are pointing out that what you said could portray you in a light you don't want to be cast in.

    You have (or should) every right to make jokes, even ones about crime. If that is all that ever happens then you should be fine. But what happens if something terrible happen and you had to use your firearm in self defense. Everything seems that your use of a firearm was justified and then, oh no, they found a post that seems like you were just itching to make a (literal) killing.

    Also, a situation like that would be a stretch to consider libel or slander. They wouldn't even have to take it out of context. They could read the whole thread to a jury. Here it is a thread is started about being "tested" for OCing. Then you come up and talk about meticulously murdering people. Then say it is a joke.

    The thing about the system we have now is that things you say cannot be used for you case (usually), just against it.

    So don't think that Glockster or I are trying to do anything anything but help you.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    I'd test them. Give them a blue gun and see how well they do with an attacker coming at them from 15 feet away.
    Scott

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  25. #25
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Point taken, and understood now, think I just needed it plainly clarified like that, and I'm sorry and apologize if y'all felt I was lashing out at either of you.

    Glockster, may I ask that you edit you're one original qoutation of my dark reference? I appreciated it in advance either way~ <3
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 10-11-2012 at 09:05 AM.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

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