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Thread: Just had Jury Duty...

  1. #1
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Just had Jury Duty...

    Okay, so I just had jury duty for a federal trial. Had to go over to Tacoma to the West District Court in the old Union Station. I wasn't picked, but had to spend most of the day there.

    So... Since this is a federal courthouse, would it have to have a lockbox or would the mere fact that I carried to the security officer at the door and asked for a lockbox for my firearm make me break the law by carrying in a federal building?

    Because I don't know the answer I opted to leave it at home since I was on my Motorcycle as she's my only reliable transportation right now. I felt naked all day and hated being in downtown Tacoma without it, but the thought of breaking a big boy law scared me a little bit more. Walking into a federal court house, possibly breaking a federal law with guys with guns there to enforce that possible law...

    So yeah, would the Federal Court House be required to have lockboxes like other courthouses in WA or would it be counted as a Federal Building and be a permanent no go for Firearms?
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    there is no equivalent to 9.41.300 for the Federal Court system, here is a link to the US Marshall's web page about prohibited items, weapons is listed and that there is not required storage as a general case.

    http://www.usmarshals.gov/judicial/visit_courthouse.htm

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    there is no equivalent to 9.41.300 for the Federal Court system, here is a link to the US Marshall's web page about prohibited items, weapons is listed and that there is not required storage as a general case.
    Not every federal agent is permitted to carry in a federal courthouse. I imagine non-federal police can't either. So I imagine they do have some sort of lockbox on the premises, but they probably won't make them available to any old citizen.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Good chance to remind all of their duties as jurors. It is our right to judge the crime and the law. Regardless of "jury instructions".

    I personally think, that the Fed's should have to follow state law, to operate within a sovereign state.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Just had Jury Duty...

    You made the right move leaving it at home. Unless of course you have too much money and want yo challenge the unconstitutionality of the law.

    They freaked out a little when I went in with an empty holster.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    They freaked out a little when I went in with an empty holster.
    I love doing that. I spent a week in New Jersey and wore an empty holster the whole time. It does cause conversation.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    You made the right move leaving it at home. Unless of course you have too much money and want yo challenge the unconstitutionality of the law.

    They freaked out a little when I went in with an empty holster.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I love doing that. I spent a week in New Jersey and wore an empty holster the whole time. It does cause conversation.
    Empty holster may get you turned away in Tacoma....
    Live Free or Die!

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Empty holster may get you turned away in Tacoma....

    At the City County Building....

  9. #9
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Any carry in federal court is a big no do, no do.
    18 U.S.C. § 930(e)(1) - Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
    Last edited by rapgood; 10-05-2012 at 01:09 PM.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    I, personally, would have gone armed.

    I would have also brought my jury summons with me. If they told me that I could not enter I would have asked them to notify the officials that I had fulfilled my duty as a juror by having appeared at the court. I cannot be forced to give up a right to exercise another right/duty. Since they are calling a citizen to appear as a juror and citizens have a right to be armed then they must either accommodate for that or remove any legal requirement to appear.

    I know that many will disagree with me however, I feel that if I bow to that infringement of my rights that they will expand the infringement on everyone's rights.

    Many might argue that it's better to go unarmed to be able to help nullify a bad law. That would be a fair argument and would understand your actions and would not think any better or worse of you. It, like most things, is a choice.


    I know that if i didn't want jury duty I would just not show up at all.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I, personally, would have gone armed.

    I would have also brought my jury summons with me. If they told me that I could not enter I would have asked them to notify the officials that I had fulfilled my duty as a juror by having appeared at the court. I cannot be forced to give up a right to exercise another right/duty. Since they are calling a citizen to appear as a juror and citizens have a right to be armed then they must either accommodate for that or remove any legal requirement to appear.

    I know that many will disagree with me however, I feel that if I bow to that infringement of my rights that they will expand the infringement on everyone's rights.

    Many might argue that it's better to go unarmed to be able to help nullify a bad law. That would be a fair argument and would understand your actions and would not think any better or worse of you. It, like most things, is a choice.


    I know that if i didn't want jury duty I would just not show up at all.
    Your stance, while Constitutionally purist, pretends to ignore the also valid Constitutional Supreme Court which in essence let the 'sensitive place(s)' clause effectively banning firearms in courts stand. See McDonald pg. 39-40

    We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carryingof firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quickest way to get out of jury duty is wear a shirt that says "ask me about jury nullification" to the selection process.

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Quickest way to get out of jury duty is wear a shirt that says "ask me about jury nullification" to the selection process.
    One that always cracks me up is:

    Judge: Do you think that you can put your personal feelings aside and reach a verdict based solely on the evidence?
    Juror: No.

    Gets them out of being on the jury every time.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    One that always cracks me up is:

    Judge: Do you think that you can put your personal feelings aside and reach a verdict based solely on the evidence?
    Juror: No.

    Gets them out of being on the jury every time.
    I still haven't been called for jury duty in this state, and I'm even willing to do so.

    Honestly, I could put aside my personal feelings and reach a verdict based solely on the evidence. The question isn't whether I'd reach a verdict based on the evidence, it'd be whether I'd reach a guilty verdict based on the law.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I personally think, that the Fed's should have to follow state law, to operate within a sovereign state.
    Good luck with that. Go read the 14th amendment.

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Okay, I thought that the Federal court wouldn't have to have the lockboxes and that it'd probably be a bad idea for a poor little bastard like me to try to push it.

    Also, I was willing to serve and would have come to a logical conclusion based on the evidence presented, I just didn't WANT to serve. The judge actually asked each Juror if they wanted to serve, I and 2 others were the only ones to openly say "I don't want to serve as a juror". The others that didn't want to said "I would love to, but..." and had some excuse. I don't even think that's what got me out of it, though. Members of my family have been arrested for things similar to the what the trial was about... Also, they asked if anyone was for legalizing marijuana and my hand popped up and I was given the opportunity to speak my mind to a federal judge and us attorney.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Good luck with that. Go read the 14th amendment.
    Your point contrasting mine using the amendment defining citizen rights is?

    Because I see nowhere in it where it nullifies the the 10th amendment.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 10-05-2012 at 09:46 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    You may be thinking of this Difdi...


    Article 1 Section 8

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful [COLOR=#009900 !important]Buildings[/COLOR]
    ;

    Notice the with consent of the legislature of our state.

    I would make the legal/constitutional argument especially since Heller applies to the feds, that they are infringing upon our state rights and federal rights by not allowing us to carry to the building and not providing safe storage for us while we perform in a duty,.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Had Federal Jury duty a couple years ago...what a PITA.

    Ignored jury summons for about 6 months, wife opened the last one and was upset when I circular filed that one. Made me fill it out and mailed it for me, since she knew what I was going to do with it.

    1 week later, I get a notice telling me to show up on a certain date. So...I show and the fireworks begin.

    1) can't bring cellphone, so I leave it in the car 7 blocks away.

    2) show up and the jury coordinator hands me a long questionnaire, 1/2 of which I decline to answer -- she was not happy, but I suggested that she could send me home, offer declined.

    3) asks for my home phone number, I tell her I don't know it as it was newly assigned. She doesn't believe me, I point out that I would be willing to go get my cellphone and pull it from the address book and tell her, she declines not wanting to allow me to bring a cellphone. Then she asks me again for my home number...I make up one, she asks if that is the correct one, so I make up another...she gives up in a huff.

    4) Finally, get to the jury questions and the prosecutor asks for our feelings on jury nullification, I answer that it is none of his business what my personal feelings are...they select me. Go Figure.

    Got done 5 days later and earned a whopping couple hundred $ in mileage reimbursement from the court.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  20. #20
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    I once got a jury summons, when I was 18, went to my mom's house which was my home address, while I was stationed in Germany. LOL Needless to say I didn't exactly make it. Mom wrote the court back and told them I was out of the country.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Had Federal Jury duty a couple years ago...what a PITA.

    Ignored jury summons for about 6 months, wife opened the last one and was upset when I circular filed that one. Made me fill it out and mailed it for me, since she knew what I was going to do with it.

    1 week later, I get a notice telling me to show up on a certain date. So...I show and the fireworks begin.

    1) can't bring cellphone, so I leave it in the car 7 blocks away.

    2) show up and the jury coordinator hands me a long questionnaire, 1/2 of which I decline to answer -- she was not happy, but I suggested that she could send me home, offer declined.

    3) asks for my home phone number, I tell her I don't know it as it was newly assigned. She doesn't believe me, I point out that I would be willing to go get my cellphone and pull it from the address book and tell her, she declines not wanting to allow me to bring a cellphone. Then she asks me again for my home number...I make up one, she asks if that is the correct one, so I make up another...she gives up in a huff.

    4) Finally, get to the jury questions and the prosecutor asks for our feelings on jury nullification, I answer that it is none of his business what my personal feelings are...they select me. Go Figure.

    Got done 5 days later and earned a whopping couple hundred $ in mileage reimbursement from the court.
    So that's why I never get selected, because I actually want to serve. I've get a summons about once every two years or so but never get called. I call the automated number and my group is always dismissed so I've never actually been asked any questions about my positions.

    I do feel criminal jury duty is extremely important and all who are able should participate. Especially those of us privy to jury nullification.

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    Carolina Guy, that was fantastic.

    My story is way less interesting, but you've already started reading it. I have been to jury duty once. I didn't get selected - wasn't even called up for questions - but I did get a per diem check for something like $7 in the mail. I figured the city needed it more than I did, so I shredded it. They sent me two more letters. Just as I was about to call them and tell them to stop wasting money on me, they sent me a letter with the word "Warrant" on it. Not that kind of warrant, fortunately. Probably a Warrant of Delivery or something, because it was just more "Please take your money". It did get the heart rate elevated for a few seconds. I ignored this one just to see what would happen next. The letters finally stopped. So I suppose I've had a warrant now, just not an arrest warrant. And I should have just cashed the check if I wanted to save the city money. In retrospect, I probably should have expected that.

  23. #23
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Had Federal Jury duty a couple years ago...what a PITA.

    Ignored jury summons for about 6 months, wife opened the last one and was upset when I circular filed that one. Made me fill it out and mailed it for me, since she knew what I was going to do with it.

    1 week later, I get a notice telling me to show up on a certain date. So...I show and the fireworks begin.

    1) can't bring cellphone, so I leave it in the car 7 blocks away.

    2) show up and the jury coordinator hands me a long questionnaire, 1/2 of which I decline to answer -- she was not happy, but I suggested that she could send me home, offer declined.

    3) asks for my home phone number, I tell her I don't know it as it was newly assigned. She doesn't believe me, I point out that I would be willing to go get my cellphone and pull it from the address book and tell her, she declines not wanting to allow me to bring a cellphone. Then she asks me again for my home number...I make up one, she asks if that is the correct one, so I make up another...she gives up in a huff.

    4) Finally, get to the jury questions and the prosecutor asks for our feelings on jury nullification, I answer that it is none of his business what my personal feelings are...they select me. Go Figure.

    Got done 5 days later and earned a whopping couple hundred $ in mileage reimbursement from the court.
    Not sure if Federal Jury duty is different over there or has just changed over the years.

    We were allowed to bring cell p hones in, though they asked us to silence them when going into the court room as any disturbance they made would result in a $100 fine on the spot.

    The questionnaire that I had to fill out was before I ever got the summons. Filled it out about a year and a half ago and finally got the summons a few months ago. I don't think it asked anything more personal than where I work and my Name, DOB, Address, Phone, Etc.

    When we were being asked questions by the judge/ attorneys, we were only addressed personally when we had to introduce ourselves and if we answered yes to any of his "have you, a family member or a close personal friend ever...". It was kind of like a drinking game, but instead of taking a show you had to explain yourself...

    Also, for compensation, it was pretty good. $40.00 a day for showing up. $.55 per mile traveled. If it was over 60 miles 1 way, they would pay for a hotel and give you a food allowance. My 5 hours there that 1 day is getting me a check for about $90, but that includes reimbursement for parking and the bridge toll. That with my normal wage, because my work pays you when you're on jury duty, snagged me about $170.00 before taxes. First time in my life I have made $34.00 per hour. Lol
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

  24. #24
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    So that's why I never get selected, because I actually want to serve. I've get a summons about once every two years or so but never get called. I call the automated number and my group is always dismissed so I've never actually been asked any questions about my positions.

    I do feel criminal jury duty is extremely important and all who are able should participate. Especially those of us privy to jury nullification.
    Actually I would LOVE to serve, but I cannot afford to serve. The courts should reimburse full expenses, and given what this government wastes, this would be a NOTHING addition to the budget.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    Not sure if Federal Jury duty is different over there or has just changed over the years.

    We were allowed to bring cell p hones in, though they asked us to silence them when going into the court room as any disturbance they made would result in a $100 fine on the spot.

    The questionnaire that I had to fill out was before I ever got the summons. Filled it out about a year and a half ago and finally got the summons a few months ago. I don't think it asked anything more personal than where I work and my Name, DOB, Address, Phone, Etc.

    When we were being asked questions by the judge/ attorneys, we were only addressed personally when we had to introduce ourselves and if we answered yes to any of his "have you, a family member or a close personal friend ever...". It was kind of like a drinking game, but instead of taking a show you had to explain yourself...

    Also, for compensation, it was pretty good. $40.00 a day for showing up. $.55 per mile traveled. If it was over 60 miles 1 way, they would pay for a hotel and give you a food allowance. My 5 hours there that 1 day is getting me a check for about $90, but that includes reimbursement for parking and the bridge toll. That with my normal wage, because my work pays you when you're on jury duty, snagged me about $170.00 before taxes. First time in my life I have made $34.00 per hour. Lol
    It has apparently changed a lot. They were even asking questions about wages (which I verbally answered that I am an hourly java developer working on contract and loosing far more in an hour than the $24/day they were offering), where I worked, work phone number (which I could not remember) since I do not call myself and never like to encourage people to call since it results in hours of tech support.

    IIRC they were even asking about family members. That's where I drew the line...no need to know.

    They were paying mileage based on google maps, but I really could have done without the 200 miles round trip each day.

    I also resent HIGHLY being FORCED to go through security. It's not like flying since I have the choice to avoid it and drive.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 10-07-2012 at 12:47 AM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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