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Thread: Radio frequency ID chips

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Radio frequency ID chips

    Northside Independent School District (San Antonio, Texas) plans to track students next year on two of its campuses using technology implanted in their student identification cards in a trial that could eventually include all 112 of its schools and all of its nearly 100,000 students…

    Sounds positively Orwellian, doesn’t it?

    http://cowboybyte.com/13375/rfid-chi...exas-students/
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    Radio frequency ID chips

    It does.

    But that is just one more reason to provide parents (all parents) with a viable alternative to public indoc...er...education. Every time you hear one of these crazy public school stories, ask yourself how government-funded, privately-provided education would absolutely solve that problem. Hint, it is all about expanding choice.

    If a school uses RFIDs and you like the idea, choose that school. If you don't like the idea, choose a school that does not use RFIDs. Some parents will like the idea. Some won't. (Frankly, if I had a thug for a child, I'd consider lojacking the jerk myself.) The only way they will have genuine choice is if government (local and State only) continue to fund education while allowing parents to choose any public or private school. This makes the family, once again, the customer--and customers drive the market.


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Fighting the school board is far more difficult than fighting city hall. Have the kids leave their tracking device at school at the end of the day. When the burden to pass them out the next day gets really burdensome then the tracking devices will go the way of the daisy wheel printer* and 8-track cassette decks*.


    * I have both a daisy wheel printer and a 8-track cassette deck.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    RFID Chips and microwave ovens can be friends......
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Maine Expat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    RFID Chips and microwave ovens can be friends......
    Make a foil hat for the bugger?
    “Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.” ― Plato

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It does.

    But that is just one more reason to provide parents (all parents) with a viable alternative to public indoc...er...education. Every time you hear one of these crazy public school stories, ask yourself how government-funded, privately-provided education would absolutely solve that problem. Hint, it is all about expanding choice.

    If a school uses RFIDs and you like the idea, choose that school. If you don't like the idea, choose a school that does not use RFIDs. Some parents will like the idea. Some won't. (Frankly, if I had a thug for a child, I'd consider lojacking the jerk myself.) The only way they will have genuine choice is if government (local and State only) continue to fund education while allowing parents to choose any public or private school. This makes the family, once again, the customer--and customers drive the market.


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    <o>

    I think you're on the right track. I would take it further and deny government the power to RFID people in the first place. Even if a parent wants to RFID his kid and keep the transceiver at home, I would fight it--it just opens the door to fear-mongering about kids in danger, which opens the door to even better, longer-range tracking devices for people, or, as the government seems to view us, livestock.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Strange that none of us have yet mentioned the possibility of "Hey, Johnny, slip these in your pocket during math class, will you? Suzy and I have some plans for 4th period."

    Little Billy and Suzy are automatically "noticed" as being present in class, and since the machines do it mean old Mr. Rogers is not even going to bother looking up from the latest issue of Pie Charts to see who is not actually there. Anything happens and Billy and Suzy just look you in the eye and sweetly say, "Prove we were not in math class at the time Principal Johnson was killed in the cafeteria with a toilet plunger." The machine verifies their attendance.

    Unless the things are collected at the end of the day and passed out first thing the next morning, I can see kids slipping them on rats or gerbils and letting them loose in the building. Or even better ways of playing havoc with the system. Of course, I can see kids bringing RFID-mobilizers in even if the things are passed out at the beginning of the day. "Oops, my lanyard broke. I didn't even notice it" will be heard all over the school at the end of the day.

    I have a little bit of faith in our current generation of unincarcerated juvenile delinquients students.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Better yet RFID copy machines. They make copies of the RFID chips and then spread them out every where.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Strange that none of us have yet mentioned the possibility of "Hey, Johnny, slip these in your pocket during math class, will you? Suzy and I have some plans for 4th period."

    Little Billy and Suzy are automatically "noticed" as being present in class, and since the machines do it mean old Mr. Rogers is not even going to bother looking up from the latest issue of Pie Charts to see who is not actually there. Anything happens and Billy and Suzy just look you in the eye and sweetly say, "Prove we were not in math class at the time Principal Johnson was killed in the cafeteria with a toilet plunger." The machine verifies their attendance.

    Unless the things are collected at the end of the day and passed out first thing the next morning, I can see kids slipping them on rats or gerbils and letting them loose in the building. Or even better ways of playing havoc with the system. Of course, I can see kids bringing RFID-mobilizers in even if the things are passed out at the beginning of the day. "Oops, my lanyard broke. I didn't even notice it" will be heard all over the school at the end of the day.

    I have a little bit of faith in our current generation of unincarcerated juvenile delinquients students.

    stay safe.
    just strike the portion of the badge containing the chip with a hammer once you get home, and wait for them to notice it's not working, then play dumb and get a new badge issued

    rinse, lather, repeat

    and refuse to pay for new ones. It's not your fault that the badge was subject to sabotage catastrophic malfunction.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Better yet RFID copy machines. They make copies of the RFID chips and then spread them out every where.
    About $15 addon for any computer..
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    About $15 addon for any computer..
    Where did you find it for $15?
    Maybe it's because I was looking at the portable ones that the cost was about $50?
    I was going to prove a point about these remote toll bridges here in Washington.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Strange that none of us have yet mentioned the possibility of "Hey, Johnny, slip these in your pocket during math class, will you? Suzy and I have some plans for 4th period."
    That is because some may have a higher regard for our sweet little angels than you do.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    just strike the portion of the badge containing the chip with a hammer once you get home, and wait for them to notice it's not working, then play dumb and get a new badge issued

    rinse, lather, repeat

    and refuse to pay for new ones. It's not your fault that the badge was subject to sabotage catastrophic malfunction.
    And get locked up for destroying public property?

    Welcome to your modern state of controlling the masses.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    just strike the portion of the badge containing the chip with a hammer once you get home, and wait for them to notice it's not working, then play dumb and get a new badge issued

    rinse, lather, repeat

    and refuse to pay for new ones. It's not your fault that the badge was subject to sabotage catastrophic malfunction.
    That sounds just like the sort of thing a highschool-aged kid would come up with. Teenage boys around that age tend to think they know everything and that they're the first to come up with a given "scheme." They also tend to not consider the consequences of their actions.

    He would think he's outsmarted everyone right up until the point that his parents are presented with a bill to replace the damaged property. It would be no different from a kid destroying his text books. Don't want to pay? Fine, but you don't get a diploma until all fines are paid in full. Hell, when I was in highschool, they would keep someone from graduating if they had unpaid library fines.

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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    Shock Collars and Invisible Fences would work better...
    Be safe, be prepared, and carry on!

    Alle Ihre Basisstation jetzt zu uns gehören

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    And get locked up for destroying public property?

    Welcome to your modern state of controlling the masses.

    That's the beauty of this technique, it's impossible to prove. The force of the impact of the hammer destroys the circuits in the chip. But unlike microwaves leaves little evidence of deliberate sabotage

    Besides you're not going to get locked up over a $5 RFID , there is no law that protects skrool ID cards from being defaced, now destroying the RFID chips in passports can get you in trouble...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    That's the beauty of this technique, it's impossible to prove. The force of the impact of the hammer destroys the circuits in the chip. But unlike microwaves leaves little evidence of deliberate sabotage

    Besides you're not going to get locked up over a $5 RFID , there is no law that protects skrool ID cards from being defaced, now destroying the RFID chips in passports can get you in trouble...
    Because there is no way anyone would every be able to look at the card and see a hammer hit it. ( I hear purple is for sarcasm)

    Its not the cost of the item it is the act of destroying public property.

    You don't think your keepers who make you carry a chip won't also quickly pass more laws to make it a class.... something misdemeanor/felony......to damage said device?
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 10-09-2012 at 12:57 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Because there is no way anyone would every be able to look at the card and see a hammer hit it. ( I hear purple is for sarcasm)

    Its not the cost of the item it is the act of destroying public property.

    You don't think your keepers who make you carry a chip won't also quickly pass more laws to make it a class.... something misdemeanor/felony......to damage said device?
    Well the School Board is in a different branch of government then the state. at least in Washington. frankly I don't think anything near this invasive would be passed in Washington. although never say never.....

    And for a felony offense they would have to prove you maliciously destroyed the property in question. now a school can technically declare you guilty and refuse to release transcripts or a diploma, but proving you destroyed something in a court of law will require far more in terms of evidence then the district.

    And yes this technique is covert, you only need minimal force to disable the chip. a couple light strikes really.




    However it would be easier to kill this issue in the grave, maybe launching an initiative next year or so to preemptively stop this from entering our state.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Re: Radio frequency ID chips

    Better yet, carry the card with you during your day. Ya know, to the gentlemen club.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    Better yet, carry the card with you during your day. Ya know, to the gentlemen club.
    And get suspended for smoking cigars and drinking cognac? No way.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-09-2012 at 02:25 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    And get suspended for smoking cigars and drinking cognac? No way.
    I'm glad I was never searched..... I always had my tobacco pipe and bag of borkum riff with me....

    sometimes a fine cigar plus cutter.

    I also always had knives in my car, but I parked on the street and not on school grounds so they could not do anything about that.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I'm glad I was never searched..... I always had my tobacco pipe and bag of borkum riff with me....

    sometimes a fine cigar plus cutter.

    I also always had knives in my car, but I parked on the street and not on school grounds so they could not do anything about that.
    Yes, my friends always insisted on drinking vodka during the school day, ridiculing me for drinking on my lunch trips to the gentleman's club because cognac has a detectable odor. Mind you, some of the ridiculers were the same guys who insisted on smoking a certain plant with a very distinctive odor.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Yes, my friends always insisted on drinking vodka during the school day, ridiculing me for drinking on my lunch trips to the gentleman's club because cognac has a detectable odor. Mind you, some of the ridiculers were the same guys who insisted on smoking a certain plant with a very distinctive odor.
    When I was in 9th grade there was a day in which a school administrator read a post on facebook saying a bunch of kids were drinking at a party before school, so teachers went around asking anyone with red eyes if they were partying before school. I got questioned becuase i was up late doing my homework and so came to school tired.

    All I did was deny drinking,

    knowing what I know now I would've told her to mind her own business. what I do off campus is none of their concern.
    They had a whole group called "TATU" (pronouced tattoo, teens against tobacco use) and they would go around posting all this anti-tobacco stuff and ask people "do you smoke" "you know the health concerns with that" "carrying tobacco stuffs on school property is against the handbook"

    Just disgusting. grooming out a small percentage of students to be the "Secret Police" against their classmates.

    Discouraging people and shaming them into not doing perfectly legal behaviors is not the school's job. I understand smoking is bad for you, no one disagrees with that, but remember people who put that energy into opposing smoking will happily take on the next cause "in the name of the greater good" because they feel good about themselves for doing it.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 10-09-2012 at 04:53 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Yet another reason to homeschool. You get to know where your kids are without tagging them like a dog. Ladies and gents, if you can, take your kids out of the public schools, they are poorly designed and are ineffective at education. Both private schools and homeschool are much more effective means to giving your children the education they need.

    If they cannot keep track of the kids without tagging them like dogs they do not need to be caring for children. This is just a waste of time and $$. If the parents are worried about their kids and they know their child is a hooligan let them pay and keep track of the tagging. It is ridiculous to tag every child just cause a few cut class (oh the horror). Especially when this can be defeated by saying " hey billy, give you ten bucks to keep this in your bag."

    Additionally, if these tags are not kept at school, then these tags go home and are the students being tracked there? The potential for abuse is high and the gains are small.

  25. #25
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    Yet another reason to homeschool. You get to know where your kids are without tagging them like a dog. Ladies and gents, if you can, take your kids out of the public schools, they are poorly designed and are ineffective at education. Both private schools and homeschool are much more effective means to giving your children the education they need.

    If they cannot keep track of the kids without tagging them like dogs they do not need to be caring for children. This is just a waste of time and $$. If the parents are worried about their kids and they know their child is a hooligan let them pay and keep track of the tagging. It is ridiculous to tag every child just cause a few cut class (oh the horror). Especially when this can be defeated by saying " hey billy, give you ten bucks to keep this in your bag."

    Additionally, if these tags are not kept at school, then these tags go home and are the students being tracked there? The potential for abuse is high and the gains are small.
    Don't worry, a government that does this will have no problem ending homeschooling sooner or later.

    It's about time that people run for school boards, nearly all the school board seats went unopposed last year in my school district. If that keeps up I may run for school board....

    people don't understand, if you isolate your life out of the school system, or any part of it, instead of fighting the wrong things they do they'll keep growing in power....

    I said earlier, I think the people in my state should consider filing an initiative to prevent this kind of thing. and it's time for a full run with concerned members of the community being involved and attending the board meetings and running for board. this is not an incorrectable problem, it only requires a minimal level of committment that people aren't willing to make.

    Believe it or not, people who testify to local government hearings usually have a good record at succeeding, the problem is, only a handful of people even bother to show up.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

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