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Thread: Petition for BSA policy change

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Petition for BSA policy change

    For those who have not read my previous post, the Boyscouts of America have a policy in place prohibiting lawful carry of firearms at scouting events. I have created a petition to get the policy changed. Here is the link. Thanks for the help.

    Link to previous post
    Last edited by Tucker6900; 10-08-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Proper spelling will get you far. It is not "Boyscouts" - you can look up the correct spelling.

    The Bill of Rights is not in any way separate or distinct from the Constitution except as a part of the history of constitutional government. Separating the two implies that they are separate and distinct.

    I am eager to be informed of how the laws of the United States are based on the Declaration of Independence. For all these years I apparently was under the misapprehensio that the Constitution was the foundation for all our laws.

    That's as far as I got in reading your "petition". In glancing at it, it was difficult to see that you had 1) a statement of the present circumstances 2) a statement of why the present circumstance needs/ought to be changed, and 3) your proposed change. That could just be an artifact of there being no separation into paragraphs. It could also be that most folks who are concerned enough about the issue to read your "petition" don't care about style and form as much as I do.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The Bill of Rights is not in any way separate or distinct from the Constitution except as a part of the history of constitutional government. Separating the two implies that they are separate and distinct.
    As most people believe that the Constitution IS the Bill of Rights, added emphasis is the reason.

    I am eager to be informed of how the laws of the United States are based on the Declaration of Independence. For all these years I apparently was under the misapprehensio that the Constitution was the foundation for all our laws.
    You are correct. But, without the DOI, there would be no Constitution.

    That's as far as I got in reading your "petition". In glancing at it, it was difficult to see that you had 1) a statement of the present circumstances 2) a statement of why the present circumstance needs/ought to be changed, and 3) your proposed change. That could just be an artifact of there being no separation into paragraphs. It could also be that most folks who are concerned enough about the issue to read your "petition" don't care about style and form as much as I do.
    Its pretty clear what the point of the petition is. The policy does not allow lawful carry except LE, the change is shown in the last paragraph.

    Its simple and to the point. I find that all too often, if things like this read like some of the present day laws, most people will get only so far and turn away.

    Maybe its too simple for you...
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    Petition for BSA policy change

    The DOI may have no force of law, but it does outline the principles that the Constitution was designed to protect.

    The Constitution exists to create a federal government that can perform its necessary functions while preserving our rights to life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.


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  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    You try to be basically nice, offer constructive criticism, and a few helpful hints about how it could be made better.

    Everybody seems to think all I'm doing it picking it apart. OP wants to defend and offer excuses instead of looking at improving the product.

    So I guess thias was a "Everybody look at what I did! Everybody tell me I done good!" thread.

    Sorry, Tucker, but in spite of everybody else I continue to have standards and actually expect them to be met before I support something. You have an important issue that should be addressed. But if you are going to go out into the world looking for support you should really try to do better. Tell you what - run it by your local Tea Party folks and see how they react to it.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You try to be basically nice, offer constructive criticism, and a few helpful hints about how it could be made better.

    Everybody seems to think all I'm doing it picking it apart. OP wants to defend and offer excuses instead of looking at improving the product.

    So I guess thias was a "Everybody look at what I did! Everybody tell me I done good!" thread.

    Sorry, Tucker, but in spite of everybody else I continue to have standards and actually expect them to be met before I support something. You have an important issue that should be addressed. But if you are going to go out into the world looking for support you should really try to do better. Tell you what - run it by your local Tea Party folks and see how they react to it.

    stay safe.
    Typos are not exempt from missives that are put out into the world.....even our small little part of the world.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    As most people believe that the Constitution IS the Bill of Rights, added emphasis is the reason.



    You are correct. But, without the DOI, there would be no Constitution.



    Its pretty clear what the point of the petition is. The policy does not allow lawful carry except LE, the change is shown in the last paragraph.

    Its simple and to the point. I find that all too often, if things like this read like some of the present day laws, most people will get only so far and turn away.

    Maybe its too simple for you...
    The BSA can do whatever they choose to do within the confines of the law.

    If you choose to work to change the BSA, as skid correctly points, out a correctly written petition would lend greater credence to your quest. I wish you well and good luck.

    BTW, I signed the petition.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  8. #8
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    The petition seems reasonable as far as presentation goes. The only thing I might change is to put the purpose of the document first rather than last. For example, the Declaration of Independence puts its purpose in the first paragraph. Then clean up the few spelling and grammar errors.

    If the petition fails, I think it will be from lack of persuasion and lack of support.

    Although it doesn't work against itself, it doesn't do much to persuade. You need an experienced Scouting member to name the traditions of Scouting, and tie them to gun ownership and carry. For example, a CCer or OCer is practically the embodiment of "Be Prepared." That sort of thing. Get more persuasion text into it.

    Then find channels for support. OCDO is a good one. Other state gun-rights groups who run forums like PAFOA might be receptive. I don't have much faith in NRA after my experiences with them so I would leave them off entirely or leave them to last. Heck, if they see a ground swell of support at grassroots they might jump on board to something they might have otherwise passed up. Also, NRA might already have some program or relationship with BSA--both groups go way back, meaning they might unappreciate something that interferes or makes waves in an existing relationship. If you go to the NRA, be ready for them to try take ownership of it. They'll want to use it to promote themselves which means they will suddenly promote to their membership how they are at the forefront of expanding gun rights by working with BSA to...you get the idea.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-10-2012 at 02:12 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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