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Thread: Terrorized family: SWAT team raids wrong home

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Terrorized family: SWAT team raids wrong home

    http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...nclick_check=1

    Another no-knock SWAT raid where the paper (warrant) was air tight and apparently no verification conducted. Very interesting back story though. See if you can pick it out of the noise.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Wilmington Police Chief Michael Szczerba issued a statement later Thursday afternoon. “On behalf of the Wilmington Department of Police, I apologize to the family for this unfortunate situation,” he said.

    "Unfortunate situation"? Really? just unfortunate now...

    Everyone should file a notice of trespass with their towns ... then you would have a good case regarding criminal charges


    He also noted in the statement that last year, the city’s Crisis Management Tactical Team executed 110 search warrants with “no serious injuries to any officers, suspects or innocent citizens.”

    That's about a 1% rate of total screw-up; good job brainiacs
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-09-2012 at 12:51 PM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...nclick_check=1

    Another no-knock SWAT raid where the paper (warrant) was air tight and apparently no verification conducted. Very interesting back story though. See if you can pick it out of the noise.
    More ******* moron cops. Thank heavens none of the stormtroopers were injured. And it appears they had no jurisdiction, Ka-ching.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Good to see you again, Gunslinger.


    These SWAT raids are something I think many of us who know about them worry. What looks like a possible self-defense situation can get a sincere defender killed by automatic gunfire.

    For readers who are less familiar, these raids have mistakenly killed something on the order of 40 innocent people in the War on Drugs. No-knock warrants are part of the problem. Abuses of the knock requirement are another. The biggest part of the problem is that numerous jurisdictions who never needed a SWAT team now have them. And, you can't have SWAT sitting around doing nothing, so now many ordinary warrants are being served by SWAT teams. Right here in Northern VA we had a low-level gambling optometrist killed by SWAT in 2006. There were no reports of him having weapons or being dangerous. SWAT made the raid, and somehow the guy ended up accidentally dead of a SWAT gunshot through the chest. Of course, it took the usual five years of lawsuit activity in federal court before the jurisdiction finally settled with the family.

    A very good place to start finding out more is the research white paper on this huge problem: Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America by Radley Balko. You can read it free at the link below. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page for the free version.

    http://www.cato.org/publications/whi...-raids-america
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    The feds have been giving away M16s etc for several years now; local police just had to ask.

    That's why the explosion of swat teams has occurred and most PDs have no history running them and run them like they are military organizations.

    So now a citizen has to be prepared for such an attack ... a 9mm handgun is not enough .. you need 50 cal rifles. Its an arms race. It was not unforeseen. Believe me, many citizens can handle these larger caliber rifles and very few cops will even touch them.

    So if you wish to protect your family from a possible improper police action you need to prepare the same as one does for a regular criminal - its just that the tools are different.

    Politicians will say "civilians don't need 50 cal rifles" ... well, yes we do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The feds have been giving away M16s etc for several years now; local police just had to ask.

    That's why the explosion of swat teams has occurred and most PDs have no history running them and run them like they are military organizations.

    So now a citizen has to be prepared for such an attack ... a 9mm handgun is not enough .. you need 50 cal rifles. Its an arms race. It was not unforeseen. Believe me, many citizens can handle these larger caliber rifles and very few cops will even touch them.

    So if you wish to protect your family from a possible improper police action you need to prepare the same as one does for a regular criminal - its just that the tools are different.

    Politicians will say "civilians don't need 50 cal rifles" ... well, yes we do.

    Oh no you don't. You're not luring me into that discussion again. Got my own thread locked last time, dontchaknow.

    Leastways I blame it on you anyway. The only other alternative was that the thread was locked because of all the arguing. And, that's an even bigger irony pointing back at me.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-By-Mas-Ayoob&
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-09-2012 at 09:08 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh no you don't. You're not luring me into that discussion again. Got my own thread locked last time, dontchaknow.

    Leastways I blame it on you anyway. The only other alternative was that the thread was locked because of all the arguing. And, that's an even bigger irony pointing back at me.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-By-Mas-Ayoob&
    lol

    Keep the Faith!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The feds have been giving away M16s etc for several years now; local police just had to ask.


    Politicians will say "civilians don't need 50 cal rifles" ... well, yes we do.
    I would say police don't need M-16s or no-knock warrants.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I would say police don't need M-16s or no-knock warrants.
    Oh, but drugs and violence often go together, so anybody who has a joint is likely to be a member of the cartels and armed to the teeth. You gotta be able deliver overwhelming force by surprise to the family man in whose home you will only find half a joint. Plus, you need the M16 to shoot his caged dog. And, besides, this whole no-knock warrant thing started because the surprise was needed to prevent drug dealers from flushing evidence down the commode. You know, like a kilo will go down in one flush, and if it doesn't, the toilet tank will instantly refill and be ready to flush again in 1.3 seconds.

    /sarcasm

    The War on Drugs: Killing People and Reducing Liberty Everywhere.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-10-2012 at 11:55 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    The War on Drugs: Killing People and Reducing Liberty Everywhere.
    Yup. One of the great weapons in the current game of Biggest Bloated Government.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Even if they had the right house that's ridiculous. Breaking down a door for a DNA sample? Where's the exigency (sic?)? He can't flush all his DNA away.

    P.S. http://www.armorconcepts.com/Prevent...-Reinforcement

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    I obtained a SWAT team procedure from a local PD through a FOIA request.

    They required: 2 spotters , 4-6 cops, 2 supervisors ... thats 8-10 cops.

    And I would estimate each one takes about 4 hrs to do a simple search (prep time, etc.).

    So that's about 36 man-hours (avg 9 cops) ... and a cost of about $100/hr avg leads to a $3600 raid.

    Pretty expensive just to get a DNA swab...but priceless when they bust down the wrong house.

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    Regular Member mlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I obtained a SWAT team procedure from a local PD through a FOIA request.

    They required: 2 spotters , 4-6 cops, 2 supervisors ... thats 8-10 cops.

    And I would estimate each one takes about 4 hrs to do a simple search (prep time, etc.).

    So that's about 36 man-hours (avg 9 cops) ... and a cost of about $100/hr avg leads to a $3600 raid.

    Pretty expensive just to get a DNA swab...but priceless when they bust down the wrong house.
    For me these cost analysts have never seems to be a valid argument. Taxpayers would be paying that $3600 even if there was no raid. Those nine cops in your example will be getting paid no matter what they were doing, be it kicking down the wrong door or giving out tickets for loitering.
    The idea that money would be saved somehow by not doing a raid is bogus. Its going to be spent anyway.

    Michael

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Tuppeny said. “This is America. We’re innocent people here.”
    Well, he got the first part right. The second part in today's America is "We're terrorized by our own government here."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr View Post
    For me these cost analysts have never seems to be a valid argument. Taxpayers would be paying that $3600 even if there was no raid. Those nine cops in your example will be getting paid no matter what they were doing, be it kicking down the wrong door or giving out tickets for loitering.
    The idea that money would be saved somehow by not doing a raid is bogus. Its going to be spent anyway.

    Michael
    Maybe, maybe not. Its still a quantifiable value. The cops would have been doing something better too...

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr View Post
    For me these cost analysts have never seems to be a valid argument. Taxpayers would be paying that $3600 even if there was no raid. Those nine cops in your example will be getting paid no matter what they were doing, be it kicking down the wrong door or giving out tickets for loitering.
    The idea that money would be saved somehow by not doing a raid is bogus. Its going to be spent anyway.

    Michael
    It's valid because if there are fewer raids then you can get by with fewer cops.

    I think I just figured out the problem. Someone, somewhere has to justify their budget. If you don't use your resources they get cut.

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Watch the video

    What's even worse is that the police had the most recent address, where they found the guy, and it wasn't the home they raided. And why a high-risk, no-knock warrant for DNA if they weren't going to arrest the guy, which they didn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    What's even worse is that the police had the most recent address, where they found the guy, and it wasn't the home they raided. And why a high-risk, no-knock warrant for DNA if they weren't going to arrest the guy, which they didn't?
    Well, because, you know, just knocking on the door and telling the guy there is a warrant for a cheek swab or spit or a cigarette butt is just so undramatic. Bring the SWAT team first.

    Plus, if you barge in, you get to plain-view search the place while pretending to make a protective sweep for officer safety. You know, look in every closet in every room and under every bed, the basement, the attic, every place a person could hide. See, if you can get in a protective sweep, your fishing expedition might turn up something arrestable. Then, the yearly report can say how the SWAT team found this many of this and that many of that--now you have justification for more SWAT.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I obtained a SWAT team procedure from a local PD through a FOIA request.

    They required: 2 spotters , 4-6 cops, 2 supervisors ... thats 8-10 cops.

    And I would estimate each one takes about 4 hrs to do a simple search (prep time, etc.).

    So that's about 36 man-hours (avg 9 cops) ... and a cost of about $100/hr avg leads to a $3600 raid.

    Pretty expensive just to get a DNA swab...but priceless when they bust down the wrong house.
    Yeah, and the homeowner has to pay the $3600

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Rick View Post
    Yeah, and the homeowner has to pay the $3600
    Cite please.

    Note particularly that the wrong house was raided.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-05-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Rick View Post
    We have open carry here in Delaware also, but there is an additional law that you cannot do anything to cause panic.
    It's a Catch-22 situation.
    D'ja ever find that citation, Rick?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 03-06-2013 at 01:31 AM.

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Re: Terrorized family: SWAT team raids wrong home

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr View Post
    For me these cost analysts have never seems to be a valid argument. Taxpayers would be paying that $3600 even if there was no raid. Those nine cops in your example will be getting paid no matter what they were doing, be it kicking down the wrong door or giving out tickets for loitering.
    The idea that money would be saved somehow by not doing a raid is bogus. Its going to be spent anyway.

    Michael
    Not if they are working OT. Some high risk warrant LEOs are not always SWAT. They are called in.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen
    Plus, if you barge in, you get to plain-view search the place while pretending to make a protective sweep for officer safety. You know, look in every closet in every room and under every bed, the basement, the attic, every place a person could hide. See, if you can get in a protective sweep, your fishing expedition might turn up something arrestable.
    And they'll even look in places a person couldn't hide... like a gym bag or CD case.
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