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Thread: How long .... Really??

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    How long .... Really??

    I have been looking through this forum and reading everything that I can find regarding the turn around time on permit applications. I was advised to start a thread to address my particular situation and see whAt comes back. I reside in Sherman and just applied for my permit on Sept 04. We do not have a local PD but instead are serviced by a resident trooper. When I applied for the permit with him he was very accommodating and did the prints right then and there. We copied the necessary identification and class documentation, and presumably off it went. I have been vetted by the TSA, Secret Service and state department and each time I received my clearance within 48 hours. I was lead to believe, from other sites, that the full process could take between 8 weeks and 4 months. My question is, in light of the fact that I am dealing directly with the CSP will the process go any faster? Also what is a reasonable amount of time to wait before I begin to make inquiries as to the status of the application? Thanks for any info.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    CGS 29-29 says the local issuing authority has '5 days' to get your prints out to SPBI. When SPBI completes your background checks and returns them to the PD (should take less than 72 hours), the local issuing authority should take no more than '1 week' to issue or deny your permit.

    If 2-3 weeks or more have elapsed, you should be contacting 'records' at the DESPP and requesting when your background checks were received and sent back. If these time limits have been exceeded, you should file an appeal.

    8 weeks is a part of CGS 29-28, but the concept of PDs having 8 weeks to process a permit application is the same kind of lore as 'Connecticut is a concealed carry state' and some of us are trying to correct that misinformation.

    And no, you will not be dealing 'directly with the CSP'. You will be dealing with your local issuing authority to get the temp permit and then with the DESPP to get your permanent permit.
    Last edited by Rich B; 10-09-2012 at 03:53 PM.
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    Well now I see rat maze opening up. As we have no PD in the town who is the issuing authority? The CSP barracks responsible for the resident trooper, the assigned resident trooper, DASSP or the towns first selectman? They really don't make this easy to understand, but at least it isn't New York!

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    Sorry, I meant DESPP, to many initials in my life.
    Last edited by HenryG; 10-09-2012 at 04:11 PM.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryG View Post
    Well now I see rat maze opening up. As we have no PD in the town who is the issuing authority? The CSP barracks responsible for the resident trooper, the assigned resident trooper, DASSP or the towns first selectman? They really don't make this easy to understand, but at least it isn't New York!
    First Selectman. Although resident troopers often take the responsibility as well.

    It looks like in Sherman, the First Selectman has delegated this to the resident trooper: http://www.townofshermanct.org/faqs/faq.htm#faq18

    It should be noted there that the fees described are completely incorrect, and it is not a 'firearms permit', it is a Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers.

    As far as the resident trooper, there is nothing confusing. As far as this process goes, he has nothing to do with the state or DESPP. He is simply the appointed representative of the town. You still go through the same process as everyone else.
    Last edited by Rich B; 10-09-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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    Hey Rich, thanks for the heads up on the link. I will go to town hall tomorrow and let them know about the corrections that they should make.

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    The town is the issuing authority. The police departments are not unique municipal corporations, they are just an agency of the town.

    And the resident trooper program was started in the 1930's or 40's. It should be eliminated. Its no longer needed and the cost is outrageous.

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    @David, I agree that there are many government programs that have run their course and should be eliminated. While you feel that the Resident Trooper program is one of them I would question what the alternative would be for a town like mine where there are only 3000 residents. We have a full volunteer fire department that the town "contributes" $76,300 to have operate 365/24/7 (that cost has remained constant over the past 5 or 6 years with no increase). The cost of the resident trooper is set by the CSP and paid for by the town and we have increased the coverage to the town in recent years, at increased cost. We simply don't have the fiscal means to equip and pay for a full time PD. I would be interested in hearing your suggestion as to an alternative.
    Last edited by HenryG; 10-10-2012 at 07:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryG View Post
    @David, I agree that there are many government programs that have run their course and should be eliminated. While you feel that the Resident Trooper program is one of them I would question what the alternative would be for a town like mine where there are only 3000 residents. We have a full volunteer fire department that the town "contributes" $76,300 to have operate 365/24/7 (that cost has remained constant over the past 5 or 6 years with no increase). The cost of the resident trooper is set by the CSP and paid for by the town and we have increased the coverage to the town in recent years, at increased cost. We simply don't have the fiscal means to equip and pay for a full time PD. I would be interested in hearing your suggestion as to an alternative.
    Contract out to a surrounding town....its not rocket science. I have lived in places without any police protection ... and it was very safe (cause everybody had guns guns and more guns .... guns make good neighbors)

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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post

    8 weeks is a part of CGS 29-28, but the concept of PDs having 8 weeks to process a permit application is the same kind of lore as 'Connecticut is a concealed carry state' and some of us are trying to correct that misinformation.
    It's more than lore, it's the statutes. As much as we may not agree with it, they have that option. Until the statutes are clarified, you really "have it both ways".

    An applicant can indeed check and see that paperwork is moving, as is 29-29. But, the town still also have 8 weeks. That being said, I think the legislature needs to get rid of one or the other.

    HUGE difference between 8 weeks and open carry being illegal. There is no statute that says OC is illegal, therefore we do it. There is a statute that says the towns have 8 weeks to process an application.

    Statutes are rather clear. Interpretations, are another thing..... that's what muddies things up.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Its generally a moot point as the hearing is held long after the dates that "conflict" passes. The opposing party would have to cite some case law where there is none and most opposing parties don't have the expertise to even broach the subject.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    There is a statute that says the towns have 8 weeks to process an application.
    Keep on believing that... No one else does.
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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Keep on believing that... No one else does.
    CT General statutes does.
    BFPE hasn't had a case based on it.
    Majority of towns follow that statute.
    Majority of towns state as such.

    So..... yeah, many do see it for what it is.

    It's nice to look at law and see what you want to see, I will look at it for how it is written.

    I do think the statutes were intended to work together. Having them in two separate statutes is a bit off. But as long as 29-28 says 8 weeks, it is clear.

    Sec. 29-28a. Application for permit. Notice of decision to applicant.

    (b) The local authority shall, not later than eight weeks after a sufficient application for a temporary state permit has been made, inform the applicant that such applicant's request for a temporary state permit has been approved or denied.

    Even with a basic modicum of the English language, it is plain to see. Don't like it, petition the legislature for a change.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Even with a basic modicum of the English language, it is plain to see.
    I would agree:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-29.htm
    Sec. 29-29. Information concerning criminal records of applicants for permits.

    (b) The local authority shall take the fingerprints of such applicant or conduct any other method of positive identification required by the State Police Bureau of Identification or the Federal Bureau of Investigation, unless the local authority determines that the fingerprints of such applicant have been previously taken and the applicant's identity established, and such applicant presents identification that the local authority verifies as valid. The local authority shall record the date the fingerprints were taken in the applicant's file and, within five business days of such date, shall forward such fingerprints or other positive identifying information to the State Police Bureau of Identification which shall conduct criminal history records checks in accordance with section 29-17a.

    (c) The local authority may, in its discretion, issue a temporary state permit before a national criminal history records check relative to such applicant's record has been received. Upon receipt of the results of such national criminal history records check, the commissioner shall send a copy of the results of such national criminal history records check to the local authority, which shall inform the applicant and render a decision on the application within one week of the receipt of such results. If such results have not been received within eight weeks after a sufficient application for a permit has been made, the local authority shall inform the applicant of such delay, in writing. No temporary state permit shall be issued if the local authority has reason to believe the applicant has ever been convicted of a felony, or that any other condition exists for which the issuance of a permit for possession of a pistol or revolver is prohibited under state or federal law.
    Plain English.

    Which is the same plain English read, interpreted and acted upon by the BFPE:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=1252&Q=254192&bfpeNav=%7C
    Further more the law states that "Upon receipt of the results of such national criminal history records check, the commissioner shall send a copy of the results of such national criminal history records check to the local authority, which shall inform the applicant and render a decision on the application within one week of the receipt of such results. If such results have not been received within eight weeks after a sufficient application for a permit has been made, the local authority shall inform the applicant of such delay, in writing. C.G.S. 29-29(c)http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-29.htm
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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Again, two different statutes that cover the same thing - background checks.

    You STILL selectively quote one, over the other - which is disingenuous to anyone you give advice to.

    29-28 is clear. 29-29 is valid, and can still be used to "push" the process along (as I think it was intended).

    That being said, selectively using only the statute you like is not doing a service to anyone you help.

    For the record, I've observed HUNDREDS of hearings....... not a single one was based solely on 29-29. Rather, they were used governing the statutes as a whole.

    I asked you quite some time ago to show me a case where this has been pushed, heard and resolved before the timeline as outlined in 29-28 and you have yet to provide a single case. For good reason, it hasn't happened.

    But, feel free to keep dreaming.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0H3bJHWGl4

    Your belief is without merit and contrasts with even the BFPE's interpretations and the interpretations of multiple police departments.

    Have fun with that, we will continue to educate people as to why they do not and should not wait 8 weeks to appeal since they are not obligated by statute to do so.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Nice try....

    I never said they couldn't file based on 29-29.

    I often tell people the same thing, but 29-28 still gives the department an out.

    I'm at all the hearings, so I am looking forward to your first success on 29-29...... especially since the appeals are taking six months, so.......

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    but 29-28 still gives the department an out.
    You keep saying that...
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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You keep saying that...
    Yet you keep denying what is staring you in the face.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    So in one of the local gun shops the other day and asked the owner what his take was on this, and he added something to the discussion here. He mentioned that though the statute states the whole five days to submit is accurate he has seen permits take up to 16 weeks simply because of the backlog on FBI checks. There is no limit as to how long that check can take and the town, once the approval has been received then has one week to issue the temporary permit. So I guess that the take away on that is that the state and town can be doing everything right but if FBI is backlogged then there is no real recourse other than wait.
    Last edited by HenryG; 10-16-2012 at 07:06 AM.

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    Only problem with that thought is there is no backlog with the FBI, that is a made up excuse, FBI background checks are done electronically and are usually returned in 24 hours or less. A state background check takes 45 seconds, I watched it being done....Any town claiming that there is some sort of hold up like that has to explain to me why Windsor can issue permits on a regular basis in 4-10 days...
    Last edited by brk913; 10-16-2012 at 07:14 AM.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    FBI background checks are done electronically and are usually returned in 24 hours or less.
    Actually in between 27 and 72 minutes.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/fin...ometrics/iafis
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryG View Post
    backlog on FBI checks.
    There is no backlog on FBI checks. Just like the 'local PDs have 8 weeks to issue' line is a myth, the FBI backlog is a myth. The IAFIS system issues permits in 27-72 minutes and is completely automated. Our SPBI process is the one that was backlogged, and it was not for any other reason than they simply did not want to make it go any faster. That has been cleared up.

    http://ctcarry.com/SPBIBacklog/Background

    Connecticut Carry has been monitoring the situation as well as working on methods of diagnosing and fixing the system in the future as well.

    One of the things that has been occurring is that the national background check has been getting sent back to local issuing authorities before the state background check. Since the national background check is all that is necessary for the PD to issue the permit, the 5 days/1 week limitations are extremely important.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    And here I am with the money that my wife doesn't know about, burning a hole in my pocket just waiting to get spent at the local gun shop! Doesn't the state know that they are going to get 6.35%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryG View Post
    And here I am with the money that my wife doesn't know about, burning a hole in my pocket just waiting to get spent at the local gun shop! Doesn't the state know that they are going to get 6.35%.
    That's nice, going to get her a LadySmith?

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