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Thread: Who doesthe Government intend to shoot

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Who doesthe Government intend to shoot

    Sorry i couldn't find the other thread with this subject. i found this an interesting read, and wondered what the rest of you thought about it

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/17/wh...#ixzz24BDwLah8
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    Because our government is destroying the dollar and they know this will eventually create an economic collapse. These rounds will be used to kill those that uprise against the government when this time comes.
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    This has been discussed a lot. I'm generally a suspicious person myself, but in this case, the numbers work out. Couple of things they neglect to research in all these "gov is gonna attack us" articles. SO take that 174,000 rounds thing. OK, standard pistol qualification for fed gov requires armed agents to shoot a minimum of about 300+ rounds per year in qualification tests. plus they generally are required to have about 200 rounds in their gear bag at any given time. So if each armed agent is required to expend/carry about 500+ round a year in practice and qualification and carry, then multiply that say 550 by the number of armed agents. The SSA reports that they have 295 armed agents. That's 162,250 rounds give or take.

    It's a similar math work out with all of the OMG Fed is gonna shoot everyone with the 400 million bullets they ordered. Not that it's impossible, just saying the numbers actually make sense when you work through them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    SNIP Not that it's impossible, just saying the numbers actually make sense when you work through them.
    Yeah, and Julius Caesar told the Gauls he was just keeping the Germans on their side of the Rhine. Six years later he wrote a book on his conquest of Gaul.*

    Never trust the government. The lessons are old. Very old.


    *Roughly present day France, Belgium, and the Netherlands.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-10-2012 at 11:49 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    This has been discussed a lot. I'm generally a suspicious person myself, but in this case, the numbers work out. Couple of things they neglect to research in all these "gov is gonna attack us" articles. SO take that 174,000 rounds thing. OK, standard pistol qualification for fed gov requires armed agents to shoot a minimum of about 300+ rounds per year in qualification tests. plus they generally are required to have about 200 rounds in their gear bag at any given time. So if each armed agent is required to expend/carry about 500+ round a year in practice and qualification and carry, then multiply that say 550 by the number of armed agents. The SSA reports that they have 295 armed agents. That's 162,250 rounds give or take.

    It's a similar math work out with all of the OMG Fed is gonna shoot everyone with the 400 million bullets they ordered. Not that it's impossible, just saying the numbers actually make sense when you work through them.
    Except that you don't need hollow points for training, so why waste the extra money? Is the bureaucracy failing itself again, or what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Except that you don't need hollow points for training, so why waste the extra money? Is the bureaucracy failing itself again, or what?
    Not that I'd ever accuse the government AT ANY LEVEL with being efficient.... Training with the duty ammo would eliminate the need for 2 different purchases (duty vs training) or the need to separate/differentiate between duty and training ammo.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Not that I'd ever accuse the government AT ANY LEVEL with being efficient.... Training with the duty ammo would eliminate the need for 2 different purchases (duty vs training) or the need to separate/differentiate between duty and training ammo.
    On an industrial scale it is cheaper to buy one kind of ammo I'll bet.

    That and the fact the order is actually a contract allowing up to that amount to be supplied at not the actual number of bullets being provided
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Not that I'd ever accuse the government AT ANY LEVEL with being efficient.... Training with the duty ammo would eliminate the need for 2 different purchases (duty vs training) or the need to separate/differentiate between duty and training ammo.

    Why when we are at war with foreign nationals we can't shoot them with hollow points, but it is perfectly okay for our gov. to shoot us with them?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Why when we are at war with foreign nationals we can't shoot them with hollow points, but it is perfectly okay for our gov. to shoot us with them?
    Well, of courrrrrse. Duh. They want to prolong wars and get as many American troops killed as possible. But, they want their own costumed agents to able to drop a citizen with one shot. Geez, what are you, anti-government or something?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Well, of courrrrrse. Duh. They want to prolong wars and get as many American troops killed as possible. But, they want their own costumed agents to able to drop a citizen with one shot. Geez, what are you, anti-government or something?
    Sorry my bad what ever was I thinking.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Except that you don't need hollow points for training, so why waste the extra money? Is the bureaucracy failing itself again, or what?
    OK, practice with what you carry. Every instructor will tell you that. If you could afford to buy unlimited HP rounds wouldn't you? I would. I'd have 3,000 rounds of JHP and never shoot another FMJ cause I carry JHP in my EDC. So if I had the money, I'd be shooting the same load for practice as I would for EDC.

    Now we can talk about gov inefficiency all you want. Or "better ways to practice and save money." Sure, I'd agree it's wasteful. Are you implying that a wasteful action by the Fed is equivalent of the plan to kill US citizens? Cause I know a LOT of wasteful actions by the Fed... Does having 50 different bureaucracies to accomplish the same task mean they are targeting US citizens?

    Listen, I'm not saying that there is NO plan and it could never happen! I'm a firm believer that ANYTHING can happen. All I'm saying is the numbers add up logically. The simple fact of an ammo order is not enough to prove there is a conspiracy.

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    On an industrial scale it is cheaper to buy one kind of ammo I'll bet.

    That and the fact the order is actually a contract allowing up to that amount to be supplied at not the actual number of bullets being provided
    I know it's not a 1-to-1 correlation, but I work with a lot of construction sites. It is extremely common to order fewer sizes of materials to increase the discount. (I'm electrical) We often consolidate 3 or more different wire sizes into the largest single size so that we get a better discount on the bulk order. In some case it's just industry standard to stock key wire sizes and therefore cheaper to buy that size even if it's too big. Just saying.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Now we can talk about gov inefficiency all you want. Or "better ways to practice and save money." Sure, I'd agree it's wasteful. Are you implying that a wasteful action by the Fed is equivalent of the plan to kill US citizens? Cause I know a LOT of wasteful actions by the Fed... Does having 50 different bureaucracies to accomplish the same task mean they are targeting US citizens?
    Yes we are targeted by those many wasteful actions of the Fed......

    But i get the point you're making.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    If and when I have to take up arms in defense of liberty, I will be using FMJ rounds for one very good reason. If you kill the person you shoot on the battlefield where they fall, the enemy doesn't have to expend any more resources tending to his wounds. But, if I incapacitate them, the enemy must take more people off the battlefield to care for the wounded personnel. Usually for every one injured, it takes four more to care for them. A medic can't shoot back if he's busy applying a tourniquet or a field dressing; now he's a sitting duck. It takes 2-4 people to bear a litter and take the injured to an LZ or RP for evac, and I know from experience you cant very well aim and shoot when your carrying a litter. The time it takes to drop the litter and assemble into a combat formation is enough to pick off a few more.

    What I've just described here is exactly why our own government would have a very difficult time fighting a war against its own people. They trained many of the very people they would be fighting in the very tactics they would use against them, and the number of veteran forces outnumbers the number of active forces many times over. It wouldn't take long for a rebel army led by veteran officers and senior enlisted men to train the uninitiated in the basic tasks and tactics needed to mount an effective campaign. Now take the number of people who might not take up arms and fight directly but would offer aid and support to a rebel cause in other ways, and you have a war that our government couldn't win without a scorched earth campaign, and going down that road wouldn't make much sense. If you kill all of the people you intend to conquer, you have no subjects in the end, and thus have no real power. Not to mention the outrage in the international community should it come to that.

    /ramble
    Last edited by Nevada carrier; 10-16-2012 at 07:00 AM.
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    I thought the government was buying that ammo so that when obamacare was fully implemented they were going to shoot all the people who don't pay taxes or are old or disabled or sick. Basically everyone that doesn't pay taxes or costs the government money. Like me.

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