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Thread: Headed to Detroit from northern Kentucky with no carry permit

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    Headed to Detroit from northern Kentucky with no carry permit

    wondering if anyone happens to know the legality of taking my firearm with me for the sole purpos off protecting myself and family.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Headed to Detroit from northern Kentucky with no carry permit

    You can't do it.

    Cite is surely inbound shortly, but it has something to do with MCL 28.422 et seq or the associated penal code section.
    Last edited by TheQ; 10-11-2012 at 12:10 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    ETA: I'm leaving what I said here for continuity reasons, but I overlooked what Q said, so please read the whole thread before just taking the advice in this post.



    Not sure about Ohio, but, if you're coming to MI with no carry permit, the firearm needs to be transported unloaded in the trunk, preferably in a case. In the car loaded constitutes 'concealed' in MI, as does unloaded but accessible to the driver.

    You can Open Carry in some places in MI without a concealed carry license, but there are restrictions... I'll look up the list but anywhere with a liquor license [grocery stores, some gas stations, bars, restaurants], as well as banks and courthouses are amongst the places off limits to you.

    Also, since you did not purchase/register the pistol in MI, nor do you have a carry license of any kind, the gun free school zones act applies, so by Federal law you must not come within 1000 feet of a school zone.

    Also, avoid college campuses, they are able to make their own rules and most have banned firearms.

    ...I'll post some law cites in a minute.
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 10-11-2012 at 12:18 PM.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    You can't do it.

    Cite is surely inbound shortly, but it has something to do with MCL 28.422 et seq or the associated penal code section.
    Actually, Q looks like you're right...

    Unless i'm misinterpreting this. Here's the full text of MCL 28.422

    Quote Originally Posted by 28.422 subsection 8
    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.

    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).

    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.

    (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

    (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state.
    Note the bold
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 10-11-2012 at 12:19 PM.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Headed to Detroit from northern Kentucky with no carry permit

    He said firearm. The question is, is the firearm under 30" in overall length?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    wow, so i guess you couldn't visit from out of state and go hunting in michigan with a pistol
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Headed to Detroit from northern Kentucky with no carry permit

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    wow, so i guess you couldn't visit from out of state and go hunting in michigan with a pistol
    Not unless you have a permit from your state to own a firearm (like IL FOID)
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    If you are lucky enough to live in a state which does not require a license to purchase a pistol, you get the bonus prize of not being able to bring it to Michigan. You can only drive through and not stop.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    If you are lucky enough to live in a state which does not require a license to purchase a pistol, you get the bonus prize of not being able to bring it to Michigan. You can only drive through and not stop.
    Wouldn't the 1986 Firearm Owners' Protection Act allow you to make short stops for gas/food? I thought it was only if you stopped for lodging or longer stops.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    Wouldn't the 1986 Firearm Owners' Protection Act allow you to make short stops for gas/food? I thought it was only if you stopped for lodging or longer stops.
    You are correct. For purposes of refueling or grabbing a quick bite(a 2 hour dinner at Capital Grille is debatable). If your destination is Michigan, or here for an afternoon then you are boned.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Headed to Detroit from northern Kentucky with no carry permit

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    Wouldn't the 1986 Firearm Owners' Protection Act allow you to make short stops for gas/food? I thought it was only if you stopped for lodging or longer stops.
    Agreed.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    If you are lucky enough to live in a state which does not require a license to purchase a pistol, you get the bonus prize of not being able to bring it to Michigan. You can only drive through and not stop.
    How does a person from a state with no registration legally move here with their pistols?

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maustin195 View Post
    How does a person from a state with no registration legally move here with their pistols?
    http://www.kalamazoopublicsafety.org...gan-residents-
    basically, they need to register right away. i think i was in michigan for a few months before i registered, but my PD didn't give me a hard time when i came in to register
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 10-11-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    NM... this has been answered in an edited post.
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 10-11-2012 at 05:22 PM.

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    another reason to get rid of the registration scheme
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    http://www.kalamazoopublicsafety.org...gan-residents-
    basically, they need to register right away. i think i was in michigan for a few months before i registered, but my PD didn't give me a hard time when i came in to register
    So if I read the law correctly you have to break the law to move here with a pistol not registered in your old state. The law says you can't be in possesion of an unregistered pistol and the pistol can't be registered until you move here and establish residency. May only be a technicality but the law does make it legal for 1 group (military)but not all who move here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maustin195 View Post
    So if I read the law correctly you have to break the law to move here with a pistol not registered in your old state. The law says you can't be in possesion of an unregistered pistol and the pistol can't be registered until you move here and establish residency. May only be a technicality but the law does make it legal for 1 group (military)but not all who move here.
    yup.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maustin195 View Post
    So if I read the law correctly you have to break the law to move here with a pistol not registered in your old state. The law says you can't be in possesion of an unregistered pistol and the pistol can't be registered until you move here and establish residency. May only be a technicality but the law does make it legal for 1 group (military)but not all who move here.
    Unless you register the pistol before bringing the pistol into the state, ie leave it somewhere... but really, who the heck wants to do that?

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maustin195 View Post
    So if I read the law correctly you have to break the law to move here with a pistol not registered in your old state. The law says you can't be in possesion of an unregistered pistol and the pistol can't be registered until you move here and establish residency. May only be a technicality but the law does make it legal for 1 group (military)but not all who move here.
    There's an exception if you're moving here. I asked the state police back in 2001, when I first moved here from Chicago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    There's an exception if you're moving here. I asked the state police back in 2001, when I first moved here from Chicago.
    Where can that lawfull exception be found in writing?
    Last edited by maustin195; 10-13-2012 at 12:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maustin195 View Post
    Where can that lawfull exception be found in writing?
    There's no lawful exception, actually a provision, for non-military. MSP simply recommends:

    10. I have just moved to Michigan from another state. How much time do I have to register my pistols?

    MCL 28.422 Upon establishing legal residency, you should immediately contact your local law enforcement agency, pass the basic safety questionnaire, and complete a License to Purchase.
    For the military folks:

    2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    There's no lawful exception, actually a provision, for non-military. MSP simply recommends:

    10. I have just moved to Michigan from another state. How much time do I have to register my pistols?

    MCL 28.422 Upon establishing legal residency, you should immediately contact your local law enforcement agency, pass the basic safety questionnaire, and complete a License to Purchase.

    And that's what I was told by MSP when I called, 11 years ago.

    Of course, the nice officer I talked to went a little further. He told me I shouldn't try to go target shooting anywhere, or move the pistols out of my new home in Michigan until I have registered them. He explained if something bad happened, I could end up with more legal trouble than I'd probably want. I decided his advice was probably well intended, and more than likely true. Fortunately, it didn't take long for me to establish residency.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 10-13-2012 at 04:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    And that's what I was told by MSP when I called, 11 years ago.

    Of course, the nice officer I talked to went a little further. He told me I shouldn't try to go target shooting anywhere, or move the pistols out of my new home in Michigan until I have registered them. He explained if something bad happened, I could end up with more legal trouble than I'd probably want. I decided his advice was probably well intended, and more than likely true. Fortunately, it didn't take long for me to establish residency.
    It has been known to happen (LE advice) from time to time, but unfortunately, not often enough.

    *Seeking shelter in basement preparing for inbound SCUD*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    And that's what I was told by MSP when I called, 11 years ago.

    Of course, the nice officer I talked to went a little further. He told me I shouldn't try to go target shooting anywhere, or move the pistols out of my new home in Michigan until I have registered them. He explained if something bad happened, I could end up with more legal trouble than I'd probably want. I decided his advice was probably well intended, and more than likely true. Fortunately, it didn't take long for me to establish residency.
    Fortunately not having a pistol registered is now only a civil infraction. Best bet if you want to cover all your bases is just to print out some RI-60's, and mail them in before you come in to the state (if your moving here).

    Now as for visiting Detroit, like others have said, possession of a pistol without a CPL from your HOME STATE is illegal.

    Some words of caution if you have never visited Detroit before since no one has mentioned it yet:

    Coming to Detroit unarmed is extremely dangerous, Detroit statistically has a higher murder rate than the entire countries of Iraq, and Afghanistan combined, Detroit is one of the most dangerous, and crime ridden cities on Earth, come unarmed at your own risk.

    If you do come to Detroit, stay inside the people mover tracks, this is the "Green Zone", it's heavily patrolled by police, and is relatively safe, the farther you get from the Green Zone the deeper in to Indian country you get, and the greater the danger, also stay inside at night, particularly if you are outside the Green Zone.

    The suburbs are mostly safe, particularly the ones to the West, and North, though the outer ones are safer than the inner ones. You should avoid Lincoln Park, Highland Park, Redford, Wayne, and Westland, and any of the other smaller inner suburbs with the exception of those to the North.

    Navigating the streets of Detroit is next to impossible, even with a map, and compass. Most street signs have been stolen, and many of the remaining ones are incorrect (sometimes deliberately). The city is riddled with one way streets, and they seem to appear at random. Service drives are non existent. There is not a single strait street in the city, the city completely lacks a traditional grid layout, and streets are seemingly laid out randomly, they end abruptly, cut off at weird angles, and randomly turn in to other streets, and one ways, there is no rhyme, or reason to it, and remember there are no signs for the most part, and the remaining ones are often wrong, or misleading. Additionally many of the streets, particularly the smaller ones are obstructed with debri, rubble, and burned cars, and many manhole covers are missing.

    The residents of Detroit do not know how to drive, and can not be counted on to obey the rules of the road, traffic laws, signs, or signals or even common sense, and the pedestrians are just as stupid, and will often dart directly out in to traffic without even once looking for oncoming cars.

    Do NOT get off the freeway to detour around unless you have no choice, as I mentioned, there is no such thing as a service drive, or grid in Detroit, getting back on to the freeway may be next to impossible, and will likely require you to drive many miles over random streets to get back to the freeway who's on ramp was just a half mile from where you got off. The last time I had to get off 94 for gas it took nearly a half hour to get back on to the freeway despite the on ramp being only a few hundred feet away as none of the streets go in a strait line, again there is no logic to the street layout in Detroit. On that same trip to the gas station, I ended up on a random dead end debris strewn street, and was nearly ambushed as someone rolled a tire across the road to block my path, I was able to swerve around it, but I spent the entire time with one hand on the wheel, and the other on my Glock.

    I treat the entire area south of 8 Mile, and East of Telegraph as a no mans land, I do not go there unless necessary, and never unarmed. The city of Detroit is like the Lord Of The Flies, there is no civilization there, entire sections of the city look like something out of Mad max, or a scene from Red Dawn chain link fence across windows, razor wire on roofs, holes BLOWN in walls with the rubble, and debris strewn across the street, burned cars on the side of the road, collapsed roofs, it looks like an artillery strike. It's like driving through Beirut, or Grozny. The only thing missing is sandbags, and I'm sure there somewhere.
    Last edited by Small_Arms_Collector; 10-13-2012 at 04:53 PM.

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    Fortunately not having a pistol registered is now only a civil infraction. Best bet if you want to cover all your bases is just to print out some RI-60's, and mail them in before you come in to the state (if your moving here).

    Now as for visiting Detroit, like others have said, possession of a pistol without a CPL from your HOME STATE is illegal.

    Some words of caution if you have never visited Detroit before since no one has mentioned it yet:

    Coming to Detroit unarmed is extremely dangerous, Detroit statistically has a higher murder rate than the entire countries of Iraq, and Afghanistan combined, Detroit is one of the most dangerous, and crime ridden cities on Earth, come unarmed at your own risk.

    If you do come to Detroit, stay inside the people mover tracks, this is the "Green Zone", it's heavily patrolled by police, and is relatively safe, the farther you get from the Green Zone the deeper in to Indian country you get, and the greater the danger, also stay inside at night, particularly if you are outside the Green Zone.

    The suburbs are mostly safe, particularly the ones to the West, and North, though the outer ones are safer than the inner ones. You should avoid Lincoln Park, Highland Park, Redford, Wayne, and Westland, and any of the other smaller inner suburbs with the exception of those to the North.

    Navigating the streets of Detroit is next to impossible, even with a map, and compass. Most street signs have been stolen, and many of the remaining ones are incorrect (sometimes deliberately). The city is riddled with one way streets, and they seem to appear at random. Service drives are non existent. There is not a single strait street in the city, the city completely lacks a traditional grid layout, and streets are seemingly laid out randomly, they end abruptly, cut off at weird angles, and randomly turn in to other streets, and one ways, there is no rhyme, or reason to it, and remember there are no signs for the most part, and the remaining ones are often wrong, or misleading. Additionally many of the streets, particularly the smaller ones are obstructed with debri, rubble, and burned cars, and many manhole covers are missing.

    The residents of Detroit do not know how to drive, and can not be counted on to obey the rules of the road, traffic laws, signs, or signals or even common sense, and the pedestrians are just as stupid, and will often dart directly out in to traffic without even once looking for oncoming cars.

    Do NOT get off the freeway to detour around unless you have no choice, as I mentioned, there is no such thing as a service drive, or grid in Detroit, getting back on to the freeway may be next to impossible, and will likely require you to drive many miles over random streets to get back to the freeway who's on ramp was just a half mile from where you got off. The last time I had to get off 94 for gas it took nearly a half hour to get back on to the freeway despite the on ramp being only a few hundred feet away as none of the streets go in a strait line, again there is no logic to the street layout in Detroit. On that same trip to the gas station, I ended up on a random dead end debris strewn street, and was nearly ambushed as someone rolled a tire across the road to block my path, I was able to swerve around it, but I spent the entire time with one hand on the wheel, and the other on my Glock.

    I treat the entire area south of 8 Mile, and East of Telegraph as a no mans land, I do not go there unless necessary, and never unarmed. The city of Detroit is like the Lord Of The Flies, there is no civilization there, entire sections of the city look like something out of Mad max, or a scene from Red Dawn chain link fence across windows, razor wire on roofs, holes BLOWN in walls with the rubble, and debris strewn across the street, burned cars on the side of the road, collapsed roofs, it looks like an artillery strike. It's like driving through Beirut, or Grozny. The only thing missing is sandbags, and I'm sure there somewhere.
    This message brought to you by the Detroit Chamber of Commerce

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