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Thread: Political Profiling of “Constitutionalist” Turns Simple Domestic Call Into Swat Raid!

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Political Profiling of “Constitutionalist” Turns Simple Domestic Call Into Swat Raid!

    Wonder how many of us have been "flagged" just for being on this site?.....

    http://www.infowars.com/political-pr...-on-swat-raid/

    A farming family in Letha, Idaho recently had their house raided and were assaulted after a neighbor called the police when overhearing a verbal argument between the husband and wife who owned the house.
    In any other situation they would have had a simple knock on their door and the police would check in to make sure that no one was being hurt.
    However, Marcella Cruz and Michael Gibbons were flagged in the police department’s database as dangerous individuals because one or both of them identified as “constitutionalists”.

    Due to this identification their simple domestic disturbance call was met with a full on swat raid, with the officers scouring the house for evidence of Marijuana.
    The officers ripped Marcella Cruz out of the house, and had both her and Michael on the ground in handcuffs, with guns against their heads.

    The police found an aquaponics system that was growing tomatoes in an upstairs room of the house and celebrated, thinking that they had found a Marijuana grow operation.
    Much to their disappointment they were informed that it was obviously tomatoes, since after all, this was a farm house.

    In a recording that surfaced after the raid it is explicitly stated that this couple is being targeted because of their political beliefs. The recording shows the following exchange:
    “Are you familiar with these guys?” asked a deputy identified in the 911 recordings as “Officer 57.”
    “Negative,” answered another deputy designated “Officer 56.”
    “I am, and it’s affirmative, there is [sic] weapons,” continued Officer 57. “He is – or at least was – anti-law enforcement. We’ve had issues with him. He’s a Constitutionalist.”
    It seems that the only “issues” that they had with him were the ones that were mentioned, his political beliefs, because otherwise Gibbons has a totally clean record.

    According to a recent article about the altercation, the only run in that Gibbons has had with police in this area, is when he was the victim of a theft and they refused to help him.
    The article states that:
    More than a year ago, Marcella contacted the Sheriff’s Office to report that a man calling himself “Greg Hall,” who had lived with them for an extended period, had stolen money and jewelry from them.
    Marcella provided me with copies of e-mail messages in which she and Detective Perecz had discussed the theft – including the suspect’s specific location, which at the time was just across the Snake River in Ontario, Oregon.
    “He told me that he couldn’t help us, because the suspect had fled the jurisdiction,” Marcella related to me. “But it’s not as if he couldn’t pick up a telephone and inform the Malheur County Sheriff’s Office, or the Ontario Police.
    The bogus `domestic violence’ report that led to the raid on our home was originally received by Payette County and relayed to Gem County. It’s not as if these people can’t talk to each other.”
    The Families account of the story is confirmed by what looks to be police video, in the video police dont identify themselves before entering the house, and you can see them rush the house like thugs, ripping Marcella Cruz out by her arm and throwing her to the ground.
    The brutal treatment she was given by police left her sore and bruised for weeks, which is sadly ironic considering they were called to the house over a bogus domestic disturbance call that was made by a feuding neighbor.
    This is just the most recent situation in a string of cases where people have been targeted with extreme force because their political beliefs were flagged in a state database.
    The officer who assaulted Marcella Cruz has been identified as Detective Rich Perecz and so far has suffered no consequences for his actions.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Will Grigg brings his incisive intellect to bear: http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w286.html

    Excerpt:
    ...With Bear in handcuffs and Marcella being detained, a small group of officers, led by Sheriff Chuck Rolland, conducted a warrantless search of the home on the pretext of "clearing" it.

    As the video record of the search illustrates, the officers were not looking for a concealed threat to their safety. They made little effort to clear the corners or to inspect potential hiding spots. However, they were very interested in finding evidence of marijuana use – lifting and sniffing ashtrays and going through personal effects. After going upstairs they found what they believed to be a "grow room."

    "We’ll have to get a warrant for this," one of them remarked.

    "We found your grow room," Lt. Timony told Bear after the officers emerged from the home a few minutes later.

    "You found our tomato plants!" Bear responded, pointing out that the supposedly suspicious "grow room" was actually an aquaponics system of the kind he had described to an indifferent Emmett City Council just a few months earlier.
    Although Bear admitted that he does occasionally use marijuana to treat lingering chronic injuries – the most serious of which he received, ironically, as a police officer when he was stabbed by a shoplifter in 1982 – he hadn’t smoked any that morning. (red-bold emphasis added by Citizen)

    Ooo. Tomato plants. Bwahhahhahahahahhaahha!!!!

    Enough fun and games. That they consider being a constitutionalist dangerous says it all. In the words of Ron Paul, "Truth is treason in the empire of lies."
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-11-2012 at 11:27 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Wow, that is not good... not really sure what else to say about this.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Wow, that is not good... not really sure what else to say about this.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    What would you say if I told you this is not particularly an isolated incident?

    You can learn more by googling "Radley + Balko + Overkill"

    A very similar situation happened a couple or three years ago to a mayor in Maryland. Drug dealers sent a UPS package to his address. The plan is figured to be that the receivers would go there and get it off his front porch before anybody got home. UPS got suspicious and called the law on the other end. The law let the package go through. Local SWAT on the Maryland end raided the house after the package was dropped off by UPS. Killed one or two of the mayor's dogs. Handcuffed him in his underwear on his couch for an hour. Searched the house. Threatened his grandmother. Google "Cheye Calvo" or similar.

    SWAT raids are now used to serve non-dangerous warrants because--well, just because. You can't have an expensive SWAT team sitting around doing nothing, you know. And, every little hick town from here to Keokuk, IA has a SWAT team now because--well, because they think they need one and the fedgov helps pay.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-12-2012 at 01:44 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Another Home Invasion Injures Child

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    What would you say if I told you this is not particularly an isolated incident?
    http://www.theagitator.com/2012/10/1...d-incident-53/

    Excerpt:

    Montana SWAT team drops a flash grenade through a window into a bedroom where two children are sleeping. No arrests. No alleged meth lab.

    The blogger quoting an article by another source: A 12-year-old girl suffered burns to one side of her body when a flash grenade went off next to her as a police SWAT team raided a West End home Tuesday morning. “She has first- and second-degree burns down the left side of her body and on her arms,” said the girl’s mother, Jackie Fasching. “She’s got severe pain. Every time I think about it, it brings tears to my eyes.”


    (Bold black emphasis added by Citizen)
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-12-2012 at 03:45 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    http://www.theagitator.com/2012/10/1...d-incident-53/

    Excerpt:

    Montana SWAT team drops a flash grenade through a window into a bedroom where two children are sleeping. No arrests. No alleged meth lab.
    What idiot would drop a flash grenade into what they think is meth lab? That is plain stupid. You drop a flash grenade into a real meth lab and the whole building might explode in your face.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 10-12-2012 at 03:57 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    What idiot would drop a flash grenade into what they think is meth lab? That is plain stupid. You drop a flash grenade into a real meth lab and the whole building might explode in your face.
    Great point, actually. You might mention that in the comments section of that blog. A very, very good point.

    Which raises the question, maybe they knew it wasn' a meth lab.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    You know you rarely hear about people fighting back against swat raids that were accidentally mistaken for "non-sanctioned" criminal invasions.

    I don't want to come across as tin-foil-hat-wearing but I sometimes wonder if these type of incidents DO happen but crimes are fabricated to cover it up.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Great point, actually. You might mention that in the comments section of that blog. A very, very good point.

    Which raises the question, maybe they knew it wasn' a meth lab.
    Things that make you go hmmmm.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Now now, boys, you know better than to question the government sanctioned version of events. Shame on you for doubting their integrity!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Now now, boys, you know better than to question the government sanctioned version of events. Shame on you for doubting their integrity!
    I know you were joking, but something comes to mind.

    Notice how they use "point values" to determine whether SWAT is used. Nice bureaucratic trick, that. The point being that if you use the point system and things go wrong, you are not responsible, the point system is. Or so they will say. They won't say they're responsible for going along with a spurious point system. A point system for which I am sure they have thoroughly investigated the underlying statistics and premises. /sarcasm

    Avoiding personal responsibility so you cannot be blamed or held responsible for anything that goes wrong is the hallmark of a bureaucracy. The only other impulse that is stronger is the impulse to perpetuate the bureaucracy itself (so the members can continue to have their jobs.) This responsibility-avoidance is part of the reason we get ID chips in school ID cards--in addition to control the bureaucrats are seeking to avoid responsibility for anything undesireable than might occur in the absence of RFID cards. Why, if a kid cuts class and dies experimenting with drugs or is kidnapped, parents can ask why the teachers didn't know where the kid was.

    Bureaucracies that seem to stupidly follow rules are not unimaginative--they're avoiding being blamed if anything goes wrong.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-12-2012 at 06:39 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I think you hit the nail on the head. They want to be in complete control, but absolved of all responsibility. And if you dare challenge that, they'll label you with something like "oppositional defiant disorder" and lock you in the Psikhushka.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head. They want to be in complete control, but absolved of all responsibility. And if you dare challenge that, they'll label you with something like "oppositional defiant disorder" and lock you in the Psikhushka.
    Good point. I hadn't thought of the oppositional-defiant disorder.



    Some prisoners in the Soviet gulag (system of prison camps) landed on the right solution. A few of the brighter ones got the idea to use the system's impulses against itself. In short, they made it follow its own rules until they broke the system. This was in the 1970's or 80's when human-rights pressure from outside the Soviet Union had some little influence. Basically, the bureaucracy had a rule that every prisoner complaint had to be investigated and replied to.

    So, the few prisoners started a complaint campaign. At its height, they had almost an entire camp writing complaints. It positively jammed the bureaucracy of the prison system. There were so many complaints in such volume that the bureaucracy, in trying to follow its own rules, came to a grinding halt and near the end was all but immobilized doing nothing but handling complaints completely by the book. No functionary was willing to deviate from the procedure for fear of opening himself to replacement, you understand. Some complaints apparently were either mis-directed or deliberately sent to Politburo members, bringing the whole fiasco to their attention, too. Of course, the prison system tried threatening the prisoners into stopping, but that just encouraged them I think--notice the threat was to stop? Why threaten them if they don't stop? Why not just dump the complaints in the trash. The threats simply confirmed to the prisoners that the bureaucracy didn't dare break the rules by ignoring the complaints, I think.

    Ultimately the prisoners got some concessions, if I recall. At least one senior bureaucrat was forced into retirement. And, at least one of the prisoners was let out of the system.

    Thus the rule when dealing with bureaucracies--make them follow their own rules.

    For example, I advocate that whenever a police department harasses an OCer, that as many OCers as possible send FOIA requests to that department. Bury them under FOIA requests. Make them pull in shift commanders, the chief's secretary, and even the water department to help comply with the FOIA law regarding the requests. I'll bet the harassment of OCers stops instantly. With any luck, the harassing officer will pull a stint answering FOIA requests for a year.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    You know you rarely hear about people fighting back against swat raids that were accidentally mistaken for "non-sanctioned" criminal invasions.

    I don't want to come across as tin-foil-hat-wearing but I sometimes wonder if these type of incidents DO happen but crimes are fabricated to cover it up.
    If memory serves, they had an incident in Utah where the local PD served a no-knock raid on a veteran with PTSD at 2am. I believe that the report said that he killed one or two and wounded another five or so before they physically pinned him down and shot him full of holes.

    Let that be a lesson to us wacko Constitutionalists. Don't you dare stand up for yourself. No matter what the situation is.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    If memory serves, they had an incident in Utah where the local PD served a no-knock raid on a veteran with PTSD at 2am. I believe that the report said that he killed one or two and wounded another five or so before they physically pinned him down and shot him full of holes.

    Let that be a lesson to us wacko Constitutionalists. Don't you dare stand up for yourself. No matter what the situation is.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    Oh yeah, and the whole reason for the raid was that his neighbor had called a few days prior and reported that they thought that they smelled weed. Nothing illegal was found...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Oh yeah, and the whole reason for the raid was that his neighbor had called a few days prior and reported that they thought that they smelled weed. Nothing illegal was found...

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    This should not be enough for a warrant....

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    For example, I advocate that whenever a police department harasses an OCer, that as many OCers as possible send FOIA requests to that department. Bury them under FOIA requests. Make them pull in shift commanders, the chief's secretary, and even the water department to help comply with the FOIA law regarding the requests. I'll bet the harassment of OCers stops instantly. With any luck, the harassing officer will pull a stint answering FOIA requests for a year.
    This is a wonderful idea. Why can't we organize a little bit to support each other in this manor...
    How could we organize it?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post

    For example, I advocate that whenever a police department harasses an OCer, that as many OCers as possible send FOIA requests to that department. Bury them under FOIA requests. Make them pull in shift commanders, the chief's secretary, and even the water department to help comply with the FOIA law regarding the requests. I'll bet the harassment of OCers stops instantly. With any luck, the harassing officer will pull a stint answering FOIA requests for a year.
    I am game. I just need the letter format that is used to do that. An example would be great. I'll use it to create a basic format and then form fill it for each request.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    How about something like an e-mailing list people can voluntarily sign up for. Perhaps a mod could vet any case brought up on this forum, then shoot off an email to the mailing list with a recommended action and address... I don't now just spit balling. I know that there have been cases on this forum that I hadn't known about until the matter was resolved, that I would have liked to have helped contribute to...
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Situational awareness fail on the homeowners part. Lights and men assembling outside is damn near impossible to miss.

    Shoot the threat entering through your door. Make sure whatever weapon you use can penetrate armor.


    No warrant, no exigent circumstances = trespassing

    Armed trespassers breaking into your home = dead trespassers

    Sad, that one has to carry protect oneself from the gov't.

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    Last edited by TechnoWeenie; 10-13-2012 at 03:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    You know you rarely hear about people fighting back against swat raids that were accidentally mistaken for "non-sanctioned" criminal invasions.

    I don't want to come across as tin-foil-hat-wearing but I sometimes wonder if these type of incidents DO happen but crimes are fabricated to cover it up.
    If they wanna bury someone, just accuse the guy of growing weed and having child porn.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I am game. I just need the letter format that is used to do that. An example would be great. I'll use it to create a basic format and then form fill it for each request.
    Good point. The time to learn is before you need the information.

    I don't know your states FOIA/Sunshine law so you'll need to hunt it up and get a little familiarity. In the meantime the link below is to an old thread, the first post of which suggests a possible format and gives some advices.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...equests-in-VA&
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    This is a wonderful idea. Why can't we organize a little bit to support each other in this manor...
    How could we organize it?
    Oh, we can. Below is a link to a thread where I first passed along an idea Dreamer came up with. There are a few ideas in the OP.


    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...gainst-Itself&
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    How about something like an e-mailing list people can voluntarily sign up for. Perhaps a mod could vet any case brought up on this forum, then shoot off an email to the mailing list with a recommended action and address... I don't now just spit balling. I know that there have been cases on this forum that I hadn't known about until the matter was resolved, that I would have liked to have helped contribute to...
    Sometimes the OCer is keeping mum until he sorts out any legal questions and decides whether to pursue a lawsuit.

    Most of the time the OCer doesn't want to pursue a lawsuit either because its not his style or because the recovery would be minimal weighed against the legal expenses. Its these situations where a FOIA Avalanche would be used. We just have to wait for the OCer to decide how he's going to handle the situation and whether he wants a FOIA Avalanche.

    Also, it might not be a bad idea to let him send the first FOIA if he wants one, wait three days, and then send the Avalanche. Otherwise, it might take weeks for him to get his copies, the cops jammed up with all the rest of the requests.

    Also, there is the whole business of finding out the mailing address of the PD involved and disseminating it to the Avalanchers. Etc.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Good point. The time to learn is before you need the information.

    I don't know your states FOIA/Sunshine law so you'll need to hunt it up and get a little familiarity. In the meantime the link below is to an old thread, the first post of which suggests a possible format and gives some advices.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...equests-in-VA&
    Thanks I will bounce this off of SlapMonkay and see if it is the same format. He has done a many of them.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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