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Thread: Richmond Folk Festival

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Richmond Folk Festival

    The Fifth Richmond Folk Festival, October 12-14, 2012
    Tredegar Iron Works
    500 Tredegar Street
    Richmond Riverfront

    I have been to many "festivals" there and always OCd.
    What is different now? Isn't this under NPS?

    Please note their restrictions - see the fifth item:

    Items that are not permitted include, but are not limited to:

    Pets (service animals are permitted)
    Coolers, Large Backpacks
    Alcohol
    Bottles/glass containers
    Contraband (drugs and weapons)
    Laser pointers
    Bikes, skateboards, inline skates
    Flying objects (kites, Frisbees, footballs, etc.)
    http://www.richmondfolkfestival.org/docs/event.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Years ago the thing was put on as the National Folk Life Festival under NPS. Since then it has been taken over as a local event. I guess that Cuccinelli's opinion on local parks in Virginia extends to NPS land, or that NPS has the same attitude. (No, seriously, I do not think NPS would try to enforce a new handgun ban at Tredegar just because there was some festival sponsored by a local private group.) A phone call today after the Romney rally may get clarification.

    stay safe.

    NEED TO WAKE UP AND ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE POSTING -

    The majority of the event appears to take place on private property, with a few events near Tredegar. Other than Tredegatr being open extended hours and offering free admission it seems to have no connection to the event.

    Some of the area may in fact be public (City of Richmond) land but then the AG opinion that a private organization can erect/enforce no-firearms rules on public property for the duration of the private organization's event would be the controlling factor.

    Somebody needs to have a serious talk with Cooch about that - especially if he wants to be Governor/Senetor/President. He may get there, but that opinion will hopefully haunt him until it is retracted.
    Last edited by skidmark; 10-12-2012 at 07:24 AM. Reason: failure to fully think out the situation
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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    since when have "weapons" been "contraband"?

    doesn't contraband have a legal definition, something along the lines of property that it is illegal to possess or transport? As it is perfectly legal to possess and/or transport a firearm, how can they be described as contraband?

    Just thinking aloud, not planning on attending, having a 2 year old the ban on coolers is sufficient to keep me away. A mutual friend of ours mentioned to me on Tuesday morning that she was planning to attend at some point this weekend though.

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    Ladies and gentlemen read the restriction as it is written. The entity describes contraband as "drugs and weapons", not "drugs; weapons" or even "drugs or weapons". The prohibition is solely upon the combination provided.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen read the restriction as it is written. The entity describes contraband as "drugs and weapons", not "drugs; weapons" or even "drugs or weapons". The prohibition is solely upon the combination provided.
    That's the perfect way to read it.

    There is a movie theater that I go to. They have a sign that says, and I quote "No possession of weapons is permitted on these premises".

    Soooo.....no possession is ok, meaning if you are not in possession of a weapon, that is fine.

    The sign doesn't address what to do if you ARE in possession of a weapon.....so I assume its ok!
    James Reynolds

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    "No smoking is permitted in this elevator" - sure nice to see that they are allowing the non-smokers to continue their misbegotten ways.

    "No trespassing after business hopurs" - means I can trespass during business hours, right?

    But back to the Folk Life Festival - that AG opinion has got to be rescinded. The only ways I know how to do that are to get case law that upholds local preemption in that situation or to get a new opionion. It might be safer (primary concern), quicker, and cheaper to go for a case law solution.

    Thoughts? Notions? Suggestions for a test case? (Does not have to be something happening right now - there are all to many of these situations that come up on a recurring basis.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I saw someone carrying a Glock there last night. He didn't seem to be having any problems.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    I saw someone carrying a Glock there last night. He didn't seem to be having any problems.
    If they were looking for donations, I'm sure they take plastic

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Somebody needs to have a serious talk with Cooch about that
    I have.. basically if an entity rents/or controls public land for an event they can set the rules.. Almost like a landlord/tenant relationship. If you rent a house.. you determine who can enter and who can't and when.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I have.. basically if an entity rents/or controls public land for an event they can set the rules.. Almost like a landlord/tenant relationship. If you rent a house.. you determine who can enter and who can't and when.
    It's possible that you are merely feeding back the AG's rationalization for the ruling, but it reads more like you are agreeing with the ruling.

    A house is private property and the landlord/owner is free to set rules that, were they the government, would abridge/infringe my rights.

    The government does not have the authority to abbrogate my rights on public property just because somebody is renting it for the afternoon.

    Or, if in fact the AG opinion is appropriate, how come I can't rent a local park and put up a sign saying "Whites Only" or "No Catholics or Jews" or "Good-Looking Women Must Be Naked" and have the cops enforce it for the duration of my rental permit?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Or, if in fact the AG opinion is appropriate, how come I can't rent a local park and put up a sign saying "Whites Only" or "No Catholics or Jews" or "Good-Looking Women Must Be Naked" and have the cops enforce it for the duration of my rental permit?
    You probably could. I also don't think the cops enforce it as much as the operator themselves. If you have an event and say no "Ed's" and you see me there, you ask me to leave... if I don't , you approach the cops.. "I know that guy to be an "Ed" and my event does not allow "Ed's", I asked him to leave and he will not and he is now trespassing.

    When I asked about it, he explained for the duration of the rental period, it was still public property, but the public no longer had free public access to it.. that was relinquished under what ever contract was signed with the locality for the rental.

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    You probably could. I also don't think the cops enforce it as much as the operator themselves. If you have an event and say no "Ed's" and you see me there, you ask me to leave... if I don't , you approach the cops.. "I know that guy to be an "Ed" and my event does not allow "Ed's", I asked him to leave and he will not and he is now trespassing.

    When I asked about it, he explained for the duration of the rental period, it was still public property, but the public no longer had free public access to it.. that was relinquished under what ever contract was signed with the locality for the rental.

    Ed
    How does the "operator" enforce the rule(s)? They call the cops, Yes?

    The event is held for the benefit of the city. The LEOs are almost assuredly being paid by the city, not by the venue. Reasonably sure that clean up, trash disposal, was provided by the city. How much rent did the venue pay? Would very much like to see the written document.

    The point being that the city could provide that no citizen shall be refused the right to enter/attend if obeying all laws of the Commonwealth and they do not. It is no accident/oversight that otherwise LAC are denied.

    Wonder what would happen if Richmond City Council were to rent City Hall or the Coliseum to an entity instead of negotiating contracts for security, janitorial etc. Could they then specify "no guns"? If not, why not?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    How does the "operator" enforce the rule(s)? They call the cops, Yes?

    The event is held for the benefit of the city. The LEOs are almost assuredly being paid by the city, not by the venue. Reasonably sure that clean up, trash disposal, was provided by the city. How much rent did the venue pay? Would very much like to see the written document.

    The point being that the city could provide that no citizen shall be refused the right to enter/attend if obeying all laws of the Commonwealth and they do not. It is no accident/oversight that otherwise LAC are denied.

    Wonder what would happen if Richmond City Council were to rent City Hall or the Coliseum to an entity instead of negotiating contracts for security, janitorial etc. Could they then specify "no guns"? If not, why not?
    It would be interesting to see the contract. I'm going to hunt this evening but have to go to the Capital tomorrow. I may stop by the City office and get a copy.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    You probably could. ....

    When I asked about it, he explained for the duration of the rental period, it was still public property, but the public no longer had free public access to it.. that was relinquished under what ever contract was signed with the locality for the rental.

    Ed
    So you are saying that you do not disagree with the rationale behind the AGs opinion. We will continue to politely disagree.

    I'm going to look into renting Monroe Park and putting a few of those conditions down for my event. I'd especially like Our Young Videographer to document the enforcement of the conditions. (I understand he has high-speed capability.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    It's possible that you are merely feeding back the AG's rationalization for the ruling, but it reads more like you are agreeing with the ruling.

    A house is private property and the landlord/owner is free to set rules that, were they the government, would abridge/infringe my rights.

    The government does not have the authority to abbrogate my rights on public property just because somebody is renting it for the afternoon.

    Or, if in fact the AG opinion is appropriate, how come I can't rent a local park and put up a sign saying "Whites Only" or "No Catholics or Jews" or "Good-Looking Women Must Be Naked" and have the cops enforce it for the duration of my rental permit?

    stay safe.
    Or in the case of a Hampton Convention Center exhibit hall rented out for a gun show, "No Loaded Weapons Allowed".

    Haven't we had this discussion before?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    FWIW....I open carried there for several hours on Sunday. In fact I open carried from my apartment in the bottom, up to the Federal Reserve building, all around Browns Island, up to Belle Island, back around to the festivities on the other side of the street, back to Browns Island and then all the way back to the Bottom. I never had a problem.

    And FWIW I don't like that these private companies can pay government money to restrict your rights. That is a golden egg for government. When Obama came to VCU a while back a group of us protested the event. We were told that we weren't allowed to protest on the sidewalk where everyone was gathering because some secret private entity rented that section of the street. So all Obama had to do was have some secret private entity rent the land his events were held on and we no longer had the "right" to protest him.

    That's not a precedent we should be obliging. For now on the DNC can give the Federal government $1 to rent the land of every Obama event and then Obama can supposedly dictate that we no longer have this "right" to protest him, carry a gun, be free of unreasonable searches, and they can then refuse people based upon political affiliation, race and everything else.

    That is way too flipping easy.
    Last edited by richarcm; 10-17-2012 at 06:49 AM.

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