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Thread: Ask a Cop.

  1. #1
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    Ask a Cop.

    Has anyone seen this?
    WA Guns
    "There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there is always free cheese in a mousetrap."

  2. #2
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Can anyone remember Troyer EVER making a completely accurate and factual public statement? He fails on calling "us" anything but lawful citizens. He fails on the requirement for RAS to demand ID, only part he got right was that it is not illegal to open carry in Washington.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Bets on whether the educated and professional officer in the video gets punished somehow for his knowledge of the law?
    Last edited by Difdi; 10-14-2012 at 06:42 PM.

  4. #4
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Not to bad of a video and I believe it is better today then a few years ago.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    That wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. (and that's not an excuse for wrong statements)

    I didn't like that he implies that open carriers only carry openly as a statement, and not because we prefer it for other reasons.
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-14-2012 at 07:02 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  6. #6
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    That wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. (and that's not an excuse for wrong statements)

    I didn't like that he implies that open carriers only carry openly as a statement, and not because we prefer it for other reasons.
    I went back and listened to the video again, maybe you should also. I did not find him saying open carriers only carry openly as a statement, or that he actually said anything that could be considered a wrong statement.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Start at :40.

    He says open carry is legal, and that there are "right to carry groups" doing it, as if there would be no other reason to do it except to make a statement as a member of a "right to carry group."

    Do you know the meaning of the word "imply?"
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-14-2012 at 07:54 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  8. #8
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Start at :40.

    He says open carry is legal, and that there are "right to carry groups" doing it, as if there would be no other reason to do it except to make a statement as a member of a "right to carry group."

    Do you know the meaning of the word "imply?"
    You mean Right to Carry Groups are not open carrying? Oh wait, does this forum support Right To Carry, mystifying.....
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  9. #9
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    You mean Right to Carry Groups are not open carrying? Oh wait, does this forum support Right To Carry, mystifying.....
    +1

    Although it would be shaky legal ground for a police officer to ask for a cpl based off of a call saying the wind blew someone's coat open, I doubt an officer would even respond to one such call unless something else was reported to dispatch.

    But he did get it right in saying that open carry was legal with no CPL (remember the asst AGO who tried to insist otherwise) and then mentioned that people actively do it. That may not be a strong endorsement but it certainly acknowledges to the public that such activity is legal.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    That wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. (and that's not an excuse for wrong statements)

    I didn't like that he implies that open carriers only carry openly as a statement, and not because we prefer it for other reasons.
    With so many people thinking that those that open carry are doing it to make a political and social statement, don't you think there must be some truth behind it? It's the primary reason I see constantly on this forum, youtube, etc. I don't know what to think of it.
    Scott

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottE View Post
    With so many people thinking that those that open carry are doing it to make a political and social statement, don't you think there must be some truth behind it? It's the primary reason I see constantly on this forum, youtube, etc. I don't know what to think of it.
    There's actually a website devoted to furthering the open carry movement.

    They even post things on the front page of their website from groups like ceasefire.

    “There’s even an organization whose raison d’etre is promotion of open carry
    . . . OpenCarry.org. These are the shock troops of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away.”
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    You mean Right to Carry Groups are not open carrying? Oh wait, does this forum support Right To Carry, mystifying.....
    I have no idea what the heck you are talking about. How did I say anything like that, or criticize open carrying in any way? Quite the opposite.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottE View Post
    With so many people thinking that those that open carry are doing it to make a political and social statement, don't you think there must be some truth behind it? It's the primary reason I see constantly on this forum, youtube, etc. I don't know what to think of it.
    Those who open carry for education are going to predominately be the ones supporting forums like this and posting their encounters with law enforcement on the Internet. It's sad that you only form your opinions from such sources.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    http://kafe.com/Pierce-Sheriff-s-Spo...-Rape/12971182
    OLYMPIA, Wash. (Metro) -- A son of Pierce County Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer has been charged with third-degree child rape and third-degree child molestation for allegedly having sex with a 14-year-old girl.
    http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/0...-sheriffs.html
    It is illegal in Washington for someone 18 or older to have sexual contact with a person between 14 and 16, if the adult is at least four years older than the alleged victim..... “Zach currently lives on his own. I would expect him to be treated the same as other 19-year-olds facing similar allegations of consensual sexual activity, and I’m confident the truth will come out.”
    'Consensual' child rape? Really Ed.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 10-14-2012 at 11:26 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    'Consensual' child rape? Really Ed.
    Is this on-topic at all?
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  16. #16
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    I fail to see the relevance to this thread.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    I fail to see the relevance to this thread.
    +1
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubex DE View Post
    Is this on-topic at all?
    It gives context to the trustworthiness of the LEO spokesman featured in the OP's video link.

    If he isn't right on child rape (seemingly based on blatant personal bias), then I am personally skeptical he can get other points of law correct -- especially where he might also be personally biased (such as OC).
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 10-15-2012 at 02:30 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    It gives context to the trustworthiness of the LEO spokesman featured in the OP's video link.

    If he isn't right on child rape (seemingly based on blatant personal bias), then I am personally skeptical he can get other points of law correct -- especially where he might also be personally biased (such as OC).
    1. His trustworthiness is not in question, Ed is not being investigated for abusing a minor
    2. you have no evidence of his personal position on OC
    3. I would expect one to be biased in favor of their child
    4. your skepticism is unwarranted.

    This is about the dumbest cop bash I have ever seen anywhere on the internet.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 10-15-2012 at 02:46 AM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  20. #20
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    1. His trustworthiness is not in question, Ed is not being investigated for abusing a minor
    2. you have no evidence of his personal position on OC
    3. I would expect one to be biased in favor of their child
    4. your skepticism is unwarranted.

    This is about the dumbest cop bash I have ever seen anywhere on the internet.
    +1

    It's horrible when you make me agree with the apologist Dave_pro2a but that's a desperate way to attack someone's credibility. We all understood your angle perfectly, we're just smart enough to reject it. It seems you weren't smart enough to understand why we were distancing ourselves from you.

    ETA. I don't agree with # 2. I do the rest. The worst I saw was him bringing up his foster child's abusive past as if to make a plea for understanding.
    Last edited by sharkey; 10-15-2012 at 03:02 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    No problem with the video, short and to the point. good job by the cop answering the question.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    +1

    Although it would be shaky legal ground for a police officer to ask for a cpl based off of a call saying the wind blew someone's coat open, I doubt an officer would even respond to one such call unless something else was reported to dispatch.

    But he did get it right in saying that open carry was legal with no CPL (remember the asst AGO who tried to insist otherwise) and then mentioned that people actively do it. That may not be a strong endorsement but it certainly acknowledges to the public that such activity is legal.
    Folks in Bellingham have been arrested and harassed for their concealed gun showing.

    One reason why we have gatherings at Bloedel is because the cops their arrested a man because his gun showed when he took off his jacket and he had a CPL.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Sharky said..“There’s even an organization whose raison d’etre is promotion of open carry
    . . . OpenCarry.org. These are the shock troops of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away.”
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

    We do not look like "shock troops". We look like "jus plain folks"
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Sharky said..“There’s even an organization whose raison d’etre is promotion of open carry
    . . . OpenCarry.org. These are the shock troops of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away.”
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

    We do not look like "shock troops". We look like "jus plain folks"
    We look like shock troops to the hoplophobic and those who cater to the hoplophobes which is often the the gun lobby. Look at the crap that get's flung at us from the conceal only crowd.

    A badge of honor in my opinion.

    I think your experience in my town has been similar to mine though is that the overwhelming majority of citizens respect our actions and our rights, and this is in hippy liberal Bellingham.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Look at the crap that get's flung at us from the conceal only crowd.
    Most of my CC friends are pro-OC, they're just too scared to do it themselves
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

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