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Thread: I am considering curbside voting... thoughts?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I am considering curbside voting... thoughts?

    § 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited...

    ...The provisions of this section shall not apply to ...(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.
    - - - -




    Looking at the above code.. could a gun owner, with permit, carrying concealed.. pull up to the school, and say to the electoral rep at the school "I am not able to get out of the car and would like to curbside vote" (which is offered to both elderly and people "that can't get out of their car") and curbside vote without violating any law?

    Thanks,

    Ed
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I would rather they just use Sonics for the voting precinct, then I could pull up, curbside vote, and have a bacon cheeseburger w/ a milkshake while voting. You're on to something there. Plus there is no gun free sonics zone act
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    § 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited...

    ...The provisions of this section shall not apply to ...(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.
    - - - -




    Looking at the above code.. could a gun owner, with permit, carrying concealed.. pull up to the school, and say to the electoral rep at the school "I am not able to get out of the car and would like to curbside vote" (which is offered to both elderly and people "that can't get out of their car") and curbside vote without violating any law?

    Thanks,

    Ed
    Hmmm. This is interesting, Ed.

    What is the statute regarding curbside voting, specifically the part that pertains to folks who cannot get out of their car?
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-16-2012 at 01:17 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Hmmm. This is interesting, Ed.

    What is the statute regarding curbside voting, specifically the part that pertains to folks who cannot get out of their car?
    That would seem to be the only question. I suspect it's a policy somewhere, not in the code. Just a guess.

    TFred

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Hmmm. This is interesting, Ed.

    What is the statute regarding curbside voting, specifically the part that pertains to folks who cannot get out of their car?
    In a general sense the Americans with Disabilities Act requires reasonable accomodation of disabled persons. so they may offer curbside voting for those covered by ADA, however if they do in fact offer it to disabled people it's certainly worth it to try.

    The real problem here is that the no guns on school premises law seems to apply all the time. they should limit it to during school hours only IMHO
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    § 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited...

    ...The provisions of this section shall not apply to ...(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.
    - - - -




    Looking at the above code.. could a gun owner, with permit, carrying concealed.. pull up to the school, and say to the electoral rep at the school "I am not able to get out of the car and would like to curbside vote" (which is offered to both elderly and people "that can't get out of their car") and curbside vote without violating any law?

    Thanks,

    Ed
    Yeah...good thinking Ed. As a matter of fact, maybe you could get a bill introduced that would allow CHP holders to vote twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yeah...good thinking Ed. As a matter of fact, maybe you could get a bill introduced that would allow CHP holders to vote twice.
    PN, we Germans have a very ā propos word which describes your delight in tweaking Ed's nose on a regular basis perfectly:

    Böse

    Good thing he's so thick skinned; otherwise, he'd feel unloved.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob1 View Post
    PN, we Germans have a very ā propos word which describes your delight in tweaking Ed's nose on a regular basis perfectly:

    Böse

    Good thing he's so thick skinned; otherwise, he'd feel unloved.
    Ed is a rock. Otherwise I'd be more gentle. Teasing bounces off like .40 bullets!

    Bose...Now that explains why those German fellows were chasing me. I thought they were SPEAKER salesmen. I always wondered why they had those wooden stakes.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-16-2012 at 10:56 AM.

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    Thick skin? Surely you jest. Even sidekick Brian couldn't say that with a straight face without cracking up.

    And bullets bouncing off? What are you doing Peter, angling for an EM title?

  10. #10
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    According to an SBE website, you must be disabled:

    TFred

    Is curbside voting still available for those who wish to use it?

    Yes, curbside voting is still available for people ages 65 and older, or any person with a disability. The voter shall be afforded every opportunity to vote in a private and independent fashion, but voting equipment must remain in the view of the election officers.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Here is the direct link to the Absentee Ballot application. Page 3 has the official list of reasons. You must choose one of those reasons on the application.

    TFred

    http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/Files/Fo...pplication.pdf

    Code Reason
    1A Student
    1B Spouse of student
    1C Business
    1D Personal business or vacation
    1E I am working and commuting to/from home for 11 or more
    hours between 6:00 AM and 7:00 PM on Election Day
    1F I am a first responder (member of law enforcement,
    fire fighter, emergency technician, search and rescue)
    2A My disability or illness
    2B I am primarily and personally responsible for the care of a
    disabled/ill family member confined at home
    2C My pregnancy
    3A Confined, awaiting trial
    3B Confined, convicted of a misdemeanor
    4A An electoral board member, registrar, officer of election,
    or custodian of voting equipment
    5A I have a religious obligation
    6A Active Duty Merchant Marine or Armed Forces
    6B Spouse or dependent living with a member of 6A
    6C Temporarily residing outside of US
    6D Temporarily residing outside of US for employment or
    spouse or dependent residing with employee
    7A Requesting a ballot for presidential and vice-presidential
    electors only (Ballots for other offices/issues will not be sent)
    8A Designated representative of candidate or party inside polls

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911 Enthusiast View Post
    What are you doing Peter, angling for an EM title?
    I expect I'll be nominated for Pope before that would happen!

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Here is the direct link to the Absentee Ballot application. Page 3 has the official list of reasons. You must choose one of those reasons on the application.

    TFred

    http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/Files/Fo...pplication.pdf

    Code Reason
    1A Student
    1B Spouse of student
    1C Business
    1D Personal business or vacation
    1E I am working and commuting to/from home for 11 or more
    hours between 6:00 AM and 7:00 PM on Election Day
    1F I am a first responder (member of law enforcement,
    fire fighter, emergency technician, search and rescue)
    2A My disability or illness
    2B I am primarily and personally responsible for the care of a
    disabled/ill family member confined at home
    2C My pregnancy
    3A Confined, awaiting trial
    3B Confined, convicted of a misdemeanor
    4A An electoral board member, registrar, officer of election,
    or custodian of voting equipment
    5A I have a religious obligation
    6A Active Duty Merchant Marine or Armed Forces
    6B Spouse or dependent living with a member of 6A
    6C Temporarily residing outside of US
    6D Temporarily residing outside of US for employment or
    spouse or dependent residing with employee
    7A Requesting a ballot for presidential and vice-presidential
    electors only (Ballots for other offices/issues will not be sent)
    8A Designated representative of candidate or party inside polls
    1C and 1D pretty much give anyone a pass TFred.

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    Sounds like a curbside voting request would be a real stretch (without perjuring yourself) if the only reason was to not disarm.

    This election is going to be close in VA and I don't want to take a chance of having my vote disallowed over some gun-related technicality if SBE is taking an anti-gun stand at the polling places. I think VCDL has put out the word that carrying is not illegal at the polls (as long as it's not a gun-free zone) but that's just a lawyer's interpretation which won't hold any water on voting day at the local precinct level if SBE has put out guidance to the contrary. Unless there's something more definitive before the 6th, I plan on disarming to ensure my vote gets counted without incident.

    Any VA poll workers here on the forum who've received training for the upcoming voting day and can weigh in with what was briefed regarding firearms at their location?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I expect I'll be nominated for Pope before that would happen!
    St. Malachy predicts that the final pope will be named Peter


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    twisiting the rules so you dont have to dis-arm is wrong, morally and ethically.

    i work with people who can't get out of their bed much less a car, you are doing them a dis-service by playing the system like that.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cptstoney View Post
    twisiting the rules so you dont have to dis-arm is wrong, morally and ethically.

    i work with people who can't get out of their bed much less a car, you are doing them a dis-service by playing the system like that.
    I think you misunderstand the motive here.

    The OP is not trying to "play" anything. He is simply trying to exercise his constitutional right to vote as an armed, law-abiding citizen.

    The entire premise of this discussion is whether or not the accommodations that have been made for disabled persons might also accommodate his desire to thwart the government's illegal attempt to deprive him of his right to vote.

    The government is in the wrong here, not the law abiding citizens who have the right to vote.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 10-16-2012 at 04:11 PM. Reason: ETA: Slight clarification

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I think you misunderstand the motive here.
    I am not even going to do it.. just trying to figure if the law would allow it.. it looks like it would.

    Ed
    Carry On.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I am not even going to do it.. just trying to figure if the law would allow it.. it looks like it would.

    Ed
    I agree it would allow it. The question that comes to mind is....Is curbside voting mandated or is it just an option some polling places offer arbitrarily. If the latter, they cold refuse.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-16-2012 at 04:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I think you misunderstand the motive here.

    The OP is not trying to "play" anything. He is simply trying to exercise his constitutional right to vote as an armed, law-abiding citizen.

    The entire premise of this discussion is whether or not the accommodations that have been made for disabled persons might also accommodate his desire to thwart the government's illegal attempt to deprive him of his right to vote.

    The government is in the wrong here, not the law abiding citizens who have the right to vote.

    TFred

    And, even if he was trying to play "the system", its not like "the system" is playing fair. Lets count the ways: law against CC without permit, laws against guns in schools creating an environment of defenseless teachers, arbitrary rule by election board that no guns are allowed in polling place.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I am not even going to do it.. just trying to figure if the law would allow it.. it looks like it would.

    Ed
    I tried to determine whether the Commonwealth has a definition of "disabled". From the research I did, it appears to follow the EEOC's implementation of ADA requirements (EEOC Disability Fact Sheet), so a lot might depend on how the poll workers are trained, how powerful one feels, and whether you'd want to claim to be "disabled" in the absence of one of the qualifying criteria. Would be an interesting experiment.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    What's the deadline for applying for an absentee ballot? I'm going to call my Registrar the day after the deadline and ask about "curbside" voting. I am certified by both the feds and the state as being disabled within the meaning of the ADAAA, and can actually claim that I missed the deadline because of my disability.

    The entrance to my polling place is via the bus drop-off/pick-up area.

    I may not be able to lawfully OC but (sorry, Peter Nap) but I can get away with P4P if curbside voting is a go.

    Watch this space for further developments.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    .

    I may not be able to lawfully OC but (sorry, Peter Nap) but I can get away with P4P if curbside voting is a go.

    Watch this space for further developments.

    stay safe.
    It sets a dangerous precedent. Goddard will be signing people up for permits just so they can vote or Obama in comfort.
    I wonder if outta state Utah permit holders can cast an absentee vote there too

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cptstoney View Post
    twisiting the rules so you dont have to dis-arm is wrong, morally and ethically.

    i work with people who can't get out of their bed much less a car, you are doing them a dis-service by playing the system like that.
    As a disabled person, being dis-armed carries a greater negative impact to me than to someone who is not disabled.

    While the probability of a self defense event at a polling place is rather small, that has nothing to do with it.

    The government forces me to give up one right in order to exercise another. While I agree that schools are usually convenient, there are othe places within every precinct that certainly could serve as polling places. In other states privately owned stores are used - often because they are closer and more convenient to the precinct voters than the "local" schoolhouse. The store's legal right to control who comes in or not is given up voluntarily when they agree to be the polling place. Most precincts no longer store voting machines on-site. They are centrally stored and passed out.

    I should not have to give up one right in order to exercise another right. Solutions to the situation are available and viable. It's just that nobody has been able to get traction on the issue - so far.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    My wife and I did this in 2008. We vote at a school, and pulled up to the bus un/load entrance (which is also the main entrance), and asked for curbside voting assistance.

    She's disabled (and was using a walker with some difficulty then), and I was (and still am) over 65. We informed the poll worker, who brought out forms to complete (don't remember the form name, but I think they took the place of IDing one's self to the clerks who look you up in the registry), a ballot for each of us, and some pens. She waited by the car while we completed our ballots.

    I remained CCing the whole time.

    http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/voterwithspecialneeds.html
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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