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Thread: On carrying...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Strike's Avatar
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    On carrying...

    “As a gun owner, you have to be cool-headed, moreso than the police ever have to be.

    And you do not ever run around pretending to be the police while carrying a gun because then **** like this can happen.

    You do not start ****, act aggressively, flip the bird, roll your eyes, talk ****, or even raise your voice. To anyone. Ever.

    A combat instructor (who happened to be Buddhist and a Marine) once said to me: “From now on, when dealing with (ed.) crazy / possibly violent people, you will lose every argument. You are always wrong. You are sorry for impinging on their day. You will apologize and apologize again. You will back the **** down. You will put your tail between your legs. You will let them talk **** about your ladyfriend. You will let them call your mother a bitch and a ***** and your dad a bastard. You have no ego.”

    “You do all this because if you are the one to start a fight, by default that fight now has a gun in it, and if you start losing, you’re going to pull it and kill him. And even if you don’t go to jail because you could convince the jury that it was self-defense, you’re going to have to live with the fact that you could have saved someone’s life and yet you let your ego kill someone. "You are not the police, so don't act like them. Though all of you [civilians] are better shots than the police, you do not have the training, the continuum of force policy, or a union plus free lawyers protecting you if you screw up. He also said: but after backing down and trying to apologize, if at any time you then feel your life or that of a loved one is in danger, put three rounds into his [cardiothoracic] vault, call the police, give a statement, go home, and sleep like a baby. You did all you could for your attacker, and he was the one that made the final decision to kill himself."


    Sent from my iPhone.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike View Post
    “As a gun owner, you have to be cool-headed, moreso than the police ever have to be.
    Did anybody not already know this?
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Strike's Avatar
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    On carrying...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubex DE View Post
    Did anybody not already know this?
    Just something I thought I'd share. If it doesn't apply to you, feel free to move on.


    Sent from my iPhone.

  4. #4
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    I liked the post and think it's a good reminder.
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

    A 1911 that works properly is as rare as a Glock that doesn't.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    One of the better posts in some time.

    Ego gets the best of all of us from time to time. More so for some than others.

    This is a technique I have used in retail with customers when they get mad. Take the blame, be at fault and walk away.
    Live Free or Die!

  6. #6
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubex DE View Post
    Did anybody not already know this?
    Apparently there are lots that don't know this. Almost every day there's an article in the paper or a story on the Evening News that shows not every gun owner knows and understands this.

    For every "bozo" that owns a gun and pulls some stupid stunt, hundreds of other gun owners that carry and use their firearms responsibly get a stroke from the famous paint brush. The majority suffers from the acts of a few dumbasses.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    So many ***** words. Why do folks think that ***** words lend greater credence to their argument. They should use ________ so that the reader can insert their own words.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  8. #8
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    So many ***** words. Why do folks think that ***** words lend greater credence to their argument. They should use ________ so that the reader can insert their own words.
    Either that, or spell the word in Morse code...

    http://morsecode.scphillips.com/jtranslator.html

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Would all this apply if you carried had bat in your hand? A cast iron frying pan a knife in your pocket?

    It is a good reminder to remain calm, but I am not a believer in a total personality change because you exercise your rights.

    Lot's of people argue without resorting to violence, lots of people fist fight without pulling weapons they own out and killing each other.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Would all this apply if you carried had bat in your hand? A cast iron frying pan a knife in your pocket?

    It is a good reminder to remain calm, but I am not a believer in a total personality change because you exercise your rights.

    Lot's of people argue without resorting to violence, lots of people fist fight without pulling weapons they own out and killing each other.
    Here in the Real World, if you carry a gun, you are "different." There are all sorts of expectations and stereotypes foisted upon you. You can wish all you want that it were not so, and it SHOULD not be so, but that doesn't change the reality. As a gun carrier, and especially as an OPEN carrier, you must be beyond reproach. You must be a shining example of citizenship and calm rationality. As its often said by "our side," those licensed to carry are THE MOST law-abiding of law abiding citizens, and we must do our best to reflect that when out there amongst the "normal people."

    Why?

    Because if we do not, we play right into the hands & rhetoric of the enemy. "You see?? You see?? That crazy gun-toting extremist lunatic picked a fight with that guy just so he could shoot him! We can't let unstable people like that just walk around on the street! There must be laws! There must be more police! Someone ELSE must protect us!"

    Yes, it may suck, but it IS the current reality. You can wish it away all you want, but you must still acknowledge it. Unarmed people have more cultural freedom, BECAUSE they are unable to defend themselves, even if THEY start the fight.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  11. #11
    Regular Member mlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Would all this apply if you carried had bat in your hand? A cast iron frying pan a knife in your pocket?

    It is a good reminder to remain calm, but I am not a believer in a total personality change because you exercise your rights.

    Lot's of people argue without resorting to violence, lots of people fist fight without pulling weapons they own out and killing each other.
    I choose to avoid situations where violence might happen when at all possible. Someone calls me or my loved ones names and I will walk away id given the chance. Something I never did before I mellowed out in my old age.
    Its not that I'm afraid I might use it on them so much as the thought that I might be making a weapon available to them during the scuffle or argument.

    Michael

  12. #12
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr View Post
    I choose to avoid situations where violence might happen when at all possible. Someone calls me or my loved ones names and I will walk away if given the chance. Something I never did before I mellowed out in my old age.
    Michael
    +1
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

  13. #13
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr View Post
    I choose to avoid situations where violence might happen when at all possible. Someone calls me or my loved ones names and I will walk away id given the chance. Something I never did before I mellowed out in my old age.
    Its not that I'm afraid I might use it on them so much as the thought that I might be making a weapon available to them during the scuffle or argument.

    Michael
    +2
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  14. #14
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike View Post
    “As a gun owner, you have to be cool-headed, moreso than the police ever have to be.
    Damnit!

    I was so looking forward to shooting someone taking their wallet out of their pocket, or handing someone a Hershey's bar...

    Even moreso towards tasing blind people in wheelchairs.

    Take all my fun away why dontcha!
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  15. #15
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    So many ***** words. Why do folks think that ***** words lend greater credence to their argument. They should use ________ so that the reader can insert their own words.
    ____ you for your ______ post.

    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  16. #16
    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    “Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    “We may have found a cure for most evils; but we have found no remedy for the worst of them all, the apathy of human beings.”
    ― Helen Keller

    “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    “The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    “Active Evil is better than Passive Good.”
    ― William Blake

    “A man does what he must -- in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers, and pressures -- and that is the basis of all human morality.”
    ― John Kennedy

    “Better to fight for something than live for nothing.”
    ― George S. Patton

    “Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear.”
    ― Mark Twain

    “Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.”
    ― Thomas Jefferson

    “Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often.”
    ― Mark Twain

    “The superior man acts before he speaks, and afterwards speaks according to his action.”
    ― Confucius

    “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    “All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.”
    ― Edmund Burke

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
    ― Benjamin Franklin

  17. #17
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    OK, so there has been a lot of talk in this thread about being held to a higher standard, society putting us under a microscope, etc.

    Let me just say one thing: we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard than society does in the first place.

    Society thinks it's OK for 14-year-olds to get pregnant, and the appropriate response is to give them a TV show. Society thinks it is funny, not tragic, when a celebrity marries for money (millions of dollars, no less) and gets divorced less than 3 months later, taking the winnings with them. Society has pretty low standards for what is acceptable and right.

    We should NOT strive to achieve these standards. We should strive to leave them in the dust.

    If we are not already holding ourselves to a high standard, if we are no already examining our own actions under a microscope, we are simply not responsible enough to be carrying firearms. I agree with a point SVG said, that we shouldn't need to undergo a total personality change just because we choose to exercise a right. That being said, we should already have a personality that puts us ten steps above where the rest of society has stooped to.

    Someone said that gun carriers are the most law abiding of law abiding citizens. We should also be the most morally upright of morally upright citizens... but not because we carry guns.
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    On carrying...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubex DE View Post
    OK, so there has been a lot of talk in this thread about being held to a higher standard, society putting us under a microscope, etc.

    Let me just say one thing: we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard than society does in the first place.

    Society thinks it's OK for 14-year-olds to get pregnant, and the appropriate response is to give them a TV show. Society thinks it is funny, not tragic, when a celebrity marries for money (millions of dollars, no less) and gets divorced less than 3 months later, taking the winnings with them. Society has pretty low standards for what is acceptable and right.

    We should NOT strive to achieve these standards. We should strive to leave them in the dust.

    If we are not already holding ourselves to a high standard, if we are no already examining our own actions under a microscope, we are simply not responsible enough to be carrying firearms. I agree with a point SVG said, that we shouldn't need to undergo a total personality change just because we choose to exercise a right. That being said, we should already have a personality that puts us ten steps above where the rest of society has stooped to.

    Someone said that gun carriers are the most law abiding of law abiding citizens. We should also be the most morally upright of morally upright citizens... but not because we carry guns.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Here in the Real World, if you carry a gun, you are "different." There are all sorts of expectations and stereotypes foisted upon you. You can wish all you want that it were not so, and it SHOULD not be so, but that doesn't change the reality. As a gun carrier, and especially as an OPEN carrier, you must be beyond reproach. You must be a shining example of citizenship and calm rationality. As its often said by "our side," those licensed to carry are THE MOST law-abiding of law abiding citizens, and we must do our best to reflect that when out there amongst the "normal people."

    Why?

    Because if we do not, we play right into the hands & rhetoric of the enemy. "You see?? You see?? That crazy gun-toting extremist lunatic picked a fight with that guy just so he could shoot him! We can't let unstable people like that just walk around on the street! There must be laws! There must be more police! Someone ELSE must protect us!"

    Yes, it may suck, but it IS the current reality. You can wish it away all you want, but you must still acknowledge it. Unarmed people have more cultural freedom, BECAUSE they are unable to defend themselves, even if THEY start the fight.
    Here in the real world I act myself, I don't change my behavior because I put on a gun.

    Who said anyone must be beyond reproach and a shining example, OC'ing is about normalizing open carry.

    Let me be clear I am not advocating being a jerk in public.

    I am saying lets not fall into the trap of judging others because of what anti's might feel about gun carriers. You see when you have to change your behavior for others perception they win!

    Nowhere did I advocate picking a fight. Like I said the OP's post is a good reminder.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr View Post
    I choose to avoid situations where violence might happen when at all possible. Someone calls me or my loved ones names and I will walk away id given the chance. Something I never did before I mellowed out in my old age.
    Its not that I'm afraid I might use it on them so much as the thought that I might be making a weapon available to them during the scuffle or argument.



    Michael
    I do too, I was screamed at and yelled at by a lady this summer, I had the right away she had decided she was going to go anyway, I stopped to let her go and avoid a crash, she decided to stop and give me her peice of mind. I drove off smiling, my son asked "Why didn't you tell her off? You were right", I told him what does it matter we know who would win that fight, let's be the better people.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 10-20-2012 at 10:49 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    ..........OC'ing is about normalizing open carry.................... let's be the better people.
    Truth
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bigpapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Here in the Real World, if you carry a gun, you are "different." There are all sorts of expectations and stereotypes foisted upon you. You can wish all you want that it were not so, and it SHOULD not be so, but that doesn't change the reality. As a gun carrier, and especially as an OPEN carrier, you must be beyond reproach. You must be a shining example of citizenship and calm rationality. As its often said by "our side," those licensed to carry are THE MOST law-abiding of law abiding citizens, and we must do our best to reflect that when out there amongst the "normal people."

    Why?

    Because if we do not, we play right into the hands & rhetoric of the enemy. "You see?? You see?? That crazy gun-toting extremist lunatic picked a fight with that guy just so he could shoot him! We can't let unstable people like that just walk around on the street! There must be laws! There must be more police! Someone ELSE must protect us!"

    Yes, it may suck, but it IS the current reality. You can wish it away all you want, but you must still acknowledge it. Unarmed people have more cultural freedom, BECAUSE they are unable to defend themselves, even if THEY start the fight.


    So true and I agree.

  22. #22
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    learned this in grade school....

    Sticks and stones my break my bones but names will never hurt me.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    @ the OP:

    6 cuss words to convey the idea "be mellow."

    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 11-19-2012 at 02:00 PM.

  24. #24
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    Is the shield or the sword more important?

    "Never throw the first punch and Fire only if fired upon are two pieces of pseudo-tactical advice thrown out so often that people now merely parrot the phrases without ever thinking about what they mean. When examined at the most basic level, the advice is often given by those who will not actually be involved in the anticipated conflict. Parents tell their kids “never throw the first punch” and Military Officers issue orders for their troops to “fire only if fired upon” . . .

    In both of the previous examples, the parent or the military officer, neither party is likely to be in actual physical jeopardy when their advice is applied.

    Nonetheless, telling others to exercise restraint, even to the point of putting them in harm’s way, is on the face both reasonable and civilized. You see, in a perfect world where the first punch doesn’t maim you and the first incoming rounds don’t kill you, exercising restraint puts one on the moral high ground. But, is this strategy valid or does it simply embolden and enable the aggressors?

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...e/#more-170715

    Great Blog, Great Writing, Read the whole article, very enlightening..........

    XD

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