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Thread: Police improvement meeting 10-18-12 6:30pm Belltown coummunity center.

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Police improvement meeting 10-18-12 6:30pm Belltown coummunity center.

    I got an automated phone call today to attend a Seattle police improvement meetting. I'm going to be pushing a victimproofing plan, and would love to have some company. Its at the Belltown community center at 6:30pm on this thursday.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I got an automated phone call today to attend a Seattle police improvement meetting. I'm going to be pushing a victimproofing plan, and would love to have some company. Its at the Belltown community center at 6:30pm on this thursday.
    "Victim proofing" by OCing? what are some pointers of your plan?

    If I had extra money for a ferry and bus I might head over and watch you present your plan, I don't live in Seattle, but I'm there enough to where their law enforcement and crime issues are relevant to me
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 10-17-2012 at 03:34 PM. Reason: grammar error
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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Victim proofing plan

    The plan has two parts, one teaching the public about who are the victims of violent crime, what injuries did they substane, when and where did it happen. Part two would be what things can a person do to avoid being a victim. One aspect of it could be conceal carry license and firearm trainning.

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Oh what a night.......

    So I get there at 630pm, and there's like 10 officers, and about 20 staff setting up. I immediatly saw Assistant Chief Metz and Sgt. Gracie. Sgt. Gracie looks likes an old beat cop from Boston, just a tough, ugly, mean, never smiles kind of guy. I meet one of the mayor's staff, mayor didn't show, but Chief Diaz was there, he's really improved his public speaking skills. So the staff lady shows me where the paper info table is in the lobby, and then I go pick a table to sit at, there was about 11 tables, each with room for 6 citizens, 1 facilatator, and 1 officer. I sat down at table number 1, because its up in front and I want to see all the action. An elderly lady from Ballard sits down at my table, and we start talking. Her interests are helping people that are living in there cars. She coordinates with Parking Enforcement and the homeless who are living out of there cars, because they have lost their job, lost their home, or went bankrupt from medical bills. Two other ladies show up, one in a wheel chair, and sit at the table. Its at this point I decide to move to another table because these two people that always cause trouble sat down at the table next to me, and I didn't want to be distracted, or anywhere near them when their fireworks start, and sure enough 15 minutes into the meeting they got kicked out.


    So the new table I moved to had 4 ladies, and one guy, as well as two faciltators and Ofc. Cook from the South Lake Union patrol area, he's also a 14 year veteren of the dept. So we spend 5 minutes going around the table introducing each other....More to follow, I'm tired and got to go to sleep.

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    cont...

    So the people sitting at my table. Mary, 57 year old business owner, she thinks we need to hire more cops at $100,000 each, because she's scared walking around Belltown, and thinks the drug dealers have taken over, and she's so suprized that the drug dealers whistle when the cops come around. Then there's Collien, she lives up by freeway park and the convention center in a condo building that is full of 3 day renters and has car burglaries in the parking garage and homeless all around her building and immediate area. She tired of calling 911 for drug dealling and protitution activty and she's tired of living scared, but can't move. Then there's Chad he's a gay man thats afraid to walk around his neighborhood, belltown, in the early morning, to go get coffee, for fear of being mugged. Then there's carol, she a community activist, organizing for safer streets in belltown. She can't understand why they can't get rid of the drug dealers. Then theirs Stacy, shes afraid to walk the streets in belltown too.

    It was really amazing to me how the police department changed the focus of the meeting from the coruption in the police dept. and fixing that, to how to make seattle safer. I have a hand out thats titled SPD 20/20 a vision for the future. In it outlines changes to the police dept. Then I have the agenda for the meeting.

    Meeting goals, develop and prioritize our concerns on public safety. Share our thoughts abour police/community relations. Offer ideas on enhancing community engagement. Lastly, Select a delegate to carry concerns to the action meeting.

    To make a long story short, these people don't have a clue of how to protect themselves and the police aren't going to help them. I told them that Seattle is one of the safest cities in the nation. I told them about living in Oakland, the 3rd worst crime ridden city in the nation. I showed them my conceal carry permit, and told them I walk anywhere, anytime in seattle, and I have no fear about it. I told them several stories about how the police dept. is corrupt, and I told them about Victimproofing and my idea was advanced to action meeting. I also told them, hey you wanted to live downtown, and you want to be a liberal city, and that means drugs and partying, and homeless. Look at your nieghbor who buy drugs and the club goers that buy too, and the services for the homeless are all downtown. So good luck with changing that. And thats it in a nutshell.
    Last edited by jsanchez; 10-22-2012 at 04:41 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    ....
    To make a long story short, these people don't have a clue of how to protect themselves and the police aren't going to help them. .... and told them I walk anywhere, anytime in seattle, and I have no fear about it. ... and I told them about Victimproofing....
    Everything you say is 100% true and correct. However, it just does not address the underlying issue - it's not just thast they do not have a clue about how to protect themselves (and carrying is only a small part of that) so much as they have no intention of protecting themselves. Whether it's a deeply-held conviction that violence is wrong or an overwhelming sense of learned helplessness, they have nothing within themselves (at least at this time) that would scream "DEFEND YOURSELF" if they were confronted by any situation - be it a mugging, a home fire, or an automobile accident. Their fight-or-flight response has been reduced to either flight or deer-in-the-headlights inability to form any sort of response to what to them is a completely foreign situation (as in never having experienced, never having contemplated what they might do). It's not that they are out of options - they have none to begin with.

    You (specifically you, jsanchez) and I and we (the majority of those who are here on OCDO and all those others who carry) are significantly different from Mary and Collien and Chad and Carol and Stacy. For whatever reason, we have agreed with ourselves that we are the ones to be responsible for, among other things, our personal safety and self defense. That probably includes having had the internal conversation about whether or not we are willing to cause the death of another human being. Your table-mates have not done that (yet?). This is why although there are about 380 Million guns in the USA, they are owned by only about 3.5 Million people (iirc the stats) and why any state that has issued concealed permits/licenses to anything more than 4% of the population is considered to have a "heavily armed" citizenry. Even counting all the hunters and target shooters and SSA cowpersons and just-a-collectors, only about one tenth (1/10th) of the population has a gun - and that includes all the cops, even the ones that only carry on duty and do not own a firearm (especially a handgun) of their own.

    So - how to we turn Mary and Collien and Chad and Carol and Stacy from Eloi into someone willing to stand up and defend themself (even if they do not choose the most effective and efficient means)? My opinion is that they need an infusion of what self esteem used to mean before everybody decided it meant nobody ever has to be embarassed by being less than the winner (even if it's the 37th-place winner out of a class of 36). Right now they are bribing the police to protect them - giving them money and hoping the cops will be around right before they are needed. They need to get moved to where this charming little old lady is - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfeAsOiaOkk .

    Once someone finds out how to do that on more than an individual basis, we are home free. In the meantime, we are stuck with "A Republican is nothing but a Democrat who has been mugged."

    stay safe.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Everything you say is 100% true and correct. However, it just does not address the underlying issue - it's not just thast they do not have a clue about how to protect themselves (and carrying is only a small part of that) so much as they have no intention of protecting themselves. Whether it's a deeply-held conviction that violence is wrong or an overwhelming sense of learned helplessness, they have nothing within themselves (at least at this time) that would scream "DEFEND YOURSELF" if they were confronted by any situation - be it a mugging, a home fire, or an automobile accident. Their fight-or-flight response has been reduced to either flight or deer-in-the-headlights inability to form any sort of response to what to them is a completely foreign situation (as in never having experienced, never having contemplated what they might do). It's not that they are out of options - they have none to begin with.

    You (specifically you, jsanchez) and I and we (the majority of those who are here on OCDO and all those others who carry) are significantly different from Mary and Collien and Chad and Carol and Stacy. For whatever reason, we have agreed with ourselves that we are the ones to be responsible for, among other things, our personal safety and self defense. That probably includes having had the internal conversation about whether or not we are willing to cause the death of another human being. Your table-mates have not done that (yet?). This is why although there are about 380 Million guns in the USA, they are owned by only about 3.5 Million people (iirc the stats) and why any state that has issued concealed permits/licenses to anything more than 4% of the population is considered to have a "heavily armed" citizenry. Even counting all the hunters and target shooters and SSA cowpersons and just-a-collectors, only about one tenth (1/10th) of the population has a gun - and that includes all the cops, even the ones that only carry on duty and do not own a firearm (especially a handgun) of their own.

    So - how to we turn Mary and Collien and Chad and Carol and Stacy from Eloi into someone willing to stand up and defend themself (even if they do not choose the most effective and efficient means)? My opinion is that they need an infusion of what self esteem used to mean before everybody decided it meant nobody ever has to be embarassed by being less than the winner (even if it's the 37th-place winner out of a class of 36). Right now they are bribing the police to protect them - giving them money and hoping the cops will be around right before they are needed. They need to get moved to where this charming little old lady is - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfeAsOiaOkk .

    Once someone finds out how to do that on more than an individual basis, we are home free. In the meantime, we are stuck with "A Republican is nothing but a Democrat who has been mugged."

    stay safe.
    I agree with everything you said. I only wish we could have had an open carry or conceal carry holder at every table to explain how great it is to be safe 24/7/365. Thats what we need, to teach these people how to do it and hold thier hand thru the process.

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