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Thread: VA private gun sale question

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    VA private gun sale question

    Can a person living in VA, who is currently a resident of another state, sell a gun here in VA? Here is the situation, I have a friend who is working here in VA long term and is from Georgia, and this person is considering selling a gun, in which they purchased new in georgia a few years ago. However, my friend thought that they had to go back to Georgia in order to lawfully sell the gun. I may be mistaken, but I do not think Georgia requires registration of handguns. my friend would prefer not to drive back to Georgia.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VA Big E View Post
    Can a person living in VA, who is currently a resident of another state, sell a gun here in VA? Here is the situation, I have a friend who is working here in VA long term and is from Georgia, and this person is considering selling a gun, in which they purchased new in georgia a few years ago. However, my friend thought that they had to go back to Georgia in order to lawfully sell the gun. I may be mistaken, but I do not think Georgia requires registration of handguns. my friend would prefer not to drive back to Georgia.
    A Virginia resident can sell to another Virginia resident.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    A Virginia resident can sell to another Virginia resident.
    Ed, thanks for the reply. As long as this person can show he is a resident in VA, he will comply with the laws. Does he need a VA id to prove residency, or can he just show that he has had a residence for over a year here in va, by using his utility bills if they are ever questioned by a potential buyer?

    The reason I ask is because he still holds valid georgia id, and does not want to change unless he is hired permanently by the company i work for.
    Last edited by VA Big E; 10-17-2012 at 07:49 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Got it, thanks for the link. I will pass this on to my friend.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VA Big E View Post
    Ed, thanks for the reply. As long as this person can show he is a resident in VA, he will comply with the laws. Does he need a VA id to prove residency, or can he just show that he has had a residence for over a year here in va, by using his utility bills if they are ever questioned by a potential buyer?

    The reason I ask is because he still holds valid georgia id, and does not want to change unless he is hired permanently by the company i work for.
    No ID is needed in a face to face private transaction.
    No paperwork is required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No ID is needed in a face to face private transaction.
    No paperwork is required.
    I understand, based upon your information, but shouldn't the seller at least ask the buyer for ID to make sure the person is at least 18, even if they may or may not be a resident. I know that the buyer is not required to comply with the request, but it may raise an eyebrow from the seller to maybe decide not to follow through with the transaction. I would try and ask for id, unless the buyer was a family member, but that is just me. I know that other people have their own opinions and i respect them

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    I am simply going to forward the flyer to my friend and he can make his own decision on what he needs to do. I was just trying to make sure that he gets good information about what he needs to do. Thank you all for the input and the education that this site provides.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VA Big E View Post
    I understand, based upon your information, but shouldn't the seller at least ask the buyer for ID to make sure the person is at least 18, even if they may or may not be a resident. I know that the buyer is not required to comply with the request, but it may raise an eyebrow from the seller to maybe decide not to follow through with the transaction. I would try and ask for id, unless the buyer was a family member, but that is just me. I know that other people have their own opinions and i respect them
    That's a personal decision. As long as I have no reason to believe the buyer is prohibited, I mind my own business.
    Others do things differently sometimes.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    If he hasn't actually established residency, he can still do a transaction but will have to enlist the aid of an FFL. He can bring the firearm to the FFL who can then transfer it to the state resident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VA Big E View Post
    I understand, based upon your information, but shouldn't the seller at least ask the buyer for ID to make sure the person is at least 18, even if they may or may not be a resident.
    No. If you have reason to believe that the person is not a resident of Virginia, or not at least 18, it would not be prudent to sell to a person even if they HAVE ID from Virginia.

    And some actual residents of Virginia, e.g., military members and family members, and college students, snowbirds, etc., often carry ID from other states.

    Just follow the law - do not transfer to any person who you have reason to know is not an actual resident of the state or under 18.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Just follow the law - do not transfer to any person who you have reason to know is not an actual resident of the state or under 18.
    +1
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I skimmed through here, including the DMV flier, but I don't think I saw the information that is needed to answer the question.

    What is the definition of "resident" for the purchase of a handgun? If I'm not mistaken, it's Federal Code which restricts the sale of handguns to same-state residents. Does that code also define what a resident is?

    The DMV flier is for Virginia residents temporarily living outside Virginia, not the other way around.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I skimmed through here, including the DMV flier, but I don't think I saw the information that is needed to answer the question.

    What is the definition of "resident" for the purchase of a handgun? If I'm not mistaken, it's Federal Code which restricts the sale of handguns to same-state residents. Does that code also define what a resident is?

    The DMV flier is for Virginia residents temporarily living outside Virginia, not the other way around.

    TFred
    I don't have the cite right now TFred but I believe 30 days in state makes you a resident.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VA Big E View Post
    Can a person living in VA, who is currently a resident of another state, sell a gun here in VA? Here is the situation, I have a friend who is working here in VA long term and is from Georgia, and this person is considering selling a gun, in which they purchased new in georgia a few years ago. However, my friend thought that they had to go back to Georgia in order to lawfully sell the gun. I may be mistaken, but I do not think Georgia requires registration of handguns. my friend would prefer not to drive back to Georgia.
    The OP has already identified the individual in question as the resident of another state Georgia, which is not Virginia. He has identified that the individual in question does not intend to make Virginia his residence, but is sojourning here for employment purposes only. Pulling tricks about utility bills and the like, when it is known that the seller has been identiofied as a resident of Georgia, is irresponsible. It also violates a forum rule and possibly a law or two (conspiracy to commit __.)

    Based on the information presented, the potential seller may not lawfully complete a private transaction in Virginia.

    What I may have missed is any information being provided that the non-resident may go to a FFL here in Virginia, transfer the gun to the FFL, who in turn would transfer it to the Virginia resident, making the sale legal all the way around. The seller does not need to return to Georgia to initiate the sale.

    It's not rocket surgery, but sometimes folks complicate things unintentionally.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The OP has already identified the individual in question as the resident of another state Georgia, which is not Virginia. He has identified that the individual in question does not intend to make Virginia his residence, but is sojourning here for employment purposes only. Pulling tricks about utility bills and the like, when it is known that the seller has been identiofied as a resident of Georgia, is irresponsible. It also violates a forum rule and possibly a law or two (conspiracy to commit __.)

    Based on the information presented, the potential seller may not lawfully complete a private transaction in Virginia.

    What I may have missed is any information being provided that the non-resident may go to a FFL here in Virginia, transfer the gun to the FFL, who in turn would transfer it to the Virginia resident, making the sale legal all the way around. The seller does not need to return to Georgia to initiate the sale.

    It's not rocket surgery, but sometimes folks complicate things unintentionally.

    stay safe.
    Zoom told him about an FFL Skid.
    I was wrong about residency. It's a year.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-18-2012 at 04:14 AM.

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    It seems that the safest option will be the use of an FFL in order to comply with the law and doing so will also keep the seller and the buyer honest. I will also direct him to this website so he can stay informed about gun laws and related information.

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    Regular Member Mayhem's Avatar
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    I only do private sales to people I know and do so legally.

    Anyone else can go thru the FFL. I do not want my gun to end up in the hands of a felon, wife beater, or nut bag. I do not want the cops knocking on my door asking how they got a gun that was registered to me.

    Edit: If the firearm I am selling was originally purchased using a FFL it would be registered to me in the eyes of the BATFE. It could be traced back to me in the end.
    Last edited by Mayhem; 10-18-2012 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I do not want the cops knocking on my door asking how they got a gun that was registered to me.
    Fortunately, we don't have gun registration in VA....

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I only do private sales to people I know and do so legally.

    Anyone else can go thru the FFL. I do not want my gun to end up in the hands of a felon, wife beater, or nut bag. I do not want the cops knocking on my door asking how they got a gun that was registered to me.
    You must have bought those guns some place other than VA.
    There is NO firearm registration in the Commonwealth, other than certain NFA items.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Zoom told him about an FFL Skid.
    I was wrong about residency. It's a year.
    I said I might have missed it. Looks like I did. I'm not allowed caffiene or sugar - that's my excuse.

    Even if someone has been in Virginia for 366 consecutive days they may not be a "resident" if they have no intention of making Virginia their permanent home. http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf - page 178 specifically.

    The OP has stated that the potential seller is sojourning in Virginia for emplouyment purposes but identifies themself as a resident of Georgia. One of the tests that might be applied in determining residency is where one pays taxes - it's not an absolute but it helps. If the potential seller files Virginia non-resident income tax forms and whatever Georgia requires for state taxes it would be hard to then claim Virginia residency for te purpose of a face-to-face sale of a handgun.

    Virginia DMV requires folks who move to Virginia as residents to change any vehicle with out-of-state registration to be registered in Virginia - can't remember if the time limit is 60 or 90 days. Remember we had that discussion with Tanner's plates? He moved here to make his home here. So far we are being told the potential seller is merely sojourning here for employment.

    Yes, I am being picky - possibly to the point of being pedantic. The OP has put themself in jeopardy by the words they used in their post. If the OP had just left it at the handgun was purchased in Goergia when the potential seller lived in Georgia, but he now lives in Virginia, we might not need to tiptoe so carefully. But the OP did not.

    You gotta call them as you read them. Can't change the words to make it more convenient.

    But, as the OP has decided, they are going to go through a FFL just to make sure. I do hope they will explain to the FFL that the potential (now becoming the actual) seller is considered a resident of Georgia as the reason for doing the transfer - it would be nice to give them that head's up to eliminate any possible confusion when the seller enters a Virginia address for the transfer to the FFL. It would be everybody's luck to get an FFL who would try to help them avoid what they might think was unnecessary paperwork.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    You must have bought those guns some place other than VA.
    There is NO firearm registration in the Commonwealth, other than certain NFA items.
    there is no gun registration but mysteriously if you purchase through an ffl and down the road that firearm is used in a crime it can be traced back to you. now that won't happen in 30 minutes like it does on tv but it can happen.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Even if someone has been in Virginia for 366 consecutive days they may not be a "resident" if they have no intention of making Virginia their permanent home. http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf - page 178 specifically.
    By my read of pages 7/8, he'd be OK selling to another resident of his home state even if the transfer took place in VA....

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I only do private sales to people I know and do so legally.

    Anyone else can go thru the FFL. I do not want my gun to end up in the hands of a felon, wife beater, or nut bag. I do not want the cops knocking on my door asking how they got a gun that was registered to me.
    Will you change that Avatar. I keep having this urge to use an ax handle on my LCD.


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    You must have bought those guns some place other than VA.
    There is NO firearm registration in the Commonwealth, other than certain NFA items.
    Quote Originally Posted by 67GT390FB View Post
    there is no gun registration but mysteriously if you purchase through an ffl and down the road that firearm is used in a crime it can be traced back to you. now that won't happen in 30 minutes like it does on tv but it can happen.
    I was going to say... and I have some oceanfront property in Nevada for sale too...

    If you go through an FFL, you better believe you are the registered owner of that gun, no matter what the laws might say.

    TFred

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