VA private gun sale question

skidmark · Oct 18, 2012

peter nap said:
Zoom told him about an FFL Skid.
I was wrong about residency. It's a year.

I said I might have missed it. Looks like I did. I'm not allowed caffiene or sugar - that's my excuse.

Even if someone has been in Virginia for 366 consecutive days they may not be a "resident" if they have no intention of making Virginia their permanent home. http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf - page 178 specifically.

The OP has stated that the potential seller is sojourning in Virginia for emplouyment purposes but identifies themself as a resident of Georgia. One of the tests that might be applied in determining residency is where one pays taxes - it's not an absolute but it helps. If the potential seller files Virginia non-resident income tax forms and whatever Georgia requires for state taxes it would be hard to then claim Virginia residency for te purpose of a face-to-face sale of a handgun.

Virginia DMV requires folks who move to Virginia as residents to change any vehicle with out-of-state registration to be registered in Virginia - can't remember if the time limit is 60 or 90 days. Remember we had that discussion with Tanner's plates? He moved here to make his home here. So far we are being told the potential seller is merely sojourning here for employment.

Yes, I am being picky - possibly to the point of being pedantic. The OP has put themself in jeopardy by the words they used in their post. If the OP had just left it at the handgun was purchased in Goergia when the potential seller lived in Georgia, but he now lives in Virginia, we might not need to tiptoe so carefully. But the OP did not.

You gotta call them as you read them. Can't change the words to make it more convenient.

But, as the OP has decided, they are going to go through a FFL just to make sure. I do hope they will explain to the FFL that the potential (now becoming the actual) seller is considered a resident of Georgia as the reason for doing the transfer - it would be nice to give them that head's up to eliminate any possible confusion when the seller enters a Virginia address for the transfer to the FFL. It would be everybody's luck to get an FFL who would try to help them avoid what they might think was unnecessary paperwork.

stay safe.

67GT390FB · Oct 18, 2012

Marco said:
You must have bought those guns some place other than VA.
There is NO firearm registration in the Commonwealth, other than certain NFA items.

there is no gun registration but mysteriously if you purchase through an ffl and down the road that firearm is used in a crime it can be traced back to you. now that won't happen in 30 minutes like it does on tv but it can happen.

roscoe13 · Oct 18, 2012

skidmark said:
Even if someone has been in Virginia for 366 consecutive days they may not be a "resident" if they have no intention of making Virginia their permanent home. http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf - page 178 specifically.

By my read of pages 7/8, he'd be OK selling to another resident of his home state even if the transfer took place in VA....

Roscoe

peter nap · Oct 18, 2012

Mayhem said:
I only do private sales to people I know and do so legally.

Anyone else can go thru the FFL. I do not want my gun to end up in the hands of a felon, wife beater, or nut bag. I do not want the cops knocking on my door asking how they got a gun that was registered to me.

Will you change that Avatar. I keep having this urge to use an ax handle on my LCD.

TFred · Oct 18, 2012

Marco said:
You must have bought those guns some place other than VA.
There is NO firearm registration in the Commonwealth, other than certain NFA items.

67GT390FB said:
there is no gun registration but mysteriously if you purchase through an ffl and down the road that firearm is used in a crime it can be traced back to you. now that won't happen in 30 minutes like it does on tv but it can happen.

I was going to say... and I have some oceanfront property in Nevada for sale too...

If you go through an FFL, you better believe you are the registered owner of that gun, no matter what the laws might say.

TFred

Thundar · Oct 18, 2012

Mike said:
No. If you have reason to believe that the person is not a resident of Virginia, or not at least 18, it would not be prudent to sell to a person even if they HAVE ID from Virginia.

And some actual residents of Virginia, e.g., military members and family members, and college students, snowbirds, etc., often carry ID from other states.

Just follow the law - do not transfer to any person who you have reason to know is not an actual resident of the state or under 18.

Mike for the 18 year old issue I agree 100%, but for the resident issue are you talking about firearms or just about handguns?

Red Dawg · Oct 18, 2012

Couple cents on this.

Here on this forum we don't advocate the breaking of laws.
Here on this forum we also don't like the government telling us what to do with our property.
Here on this forum, we like people to mind their own business.
However in my world, we buy, sell, trade, borrow, and do what we want/need whenever it is deemed neccessary. What people don't know, they don't know. We don't register guns in VA. Your friends are your friends, and the gov't, AIN'T.

Mayhem · Oct 18, 2012

roscoe13 said:
Fortunately, we don't have gun registration in VA....

Roscoe

Agreed.... but I was speaking about the BATFE paperwork when you buy originally thru a FFL dealer. The gun would show as being sold to me and would be "registered" in my name. In a manner of speaking.

I see that many people got locked in on state registration and that is not what I was getting at. I have edited my post to make it clear.

roscoe13 · Oct 18, 2012

Is anyone actually silly enough to by from FFLs these days?:banana:

Roscoe

peter nap · Oct 18, 2012

roscoe13 said:
Is anyone actually silly enough to by from FFLs these days?:banana:

Roscoe

Kinda wondering the same thing!

peter nap · Oct 18, 2012

Red Dawg said:
Here on this forum we don't advocate the breaking of laws.
Here on this forum we also don't like the government telling us what to do with our property.
Here on this forum, we like people to mind their own business.
However in my world, we buy, sell, trade, borrow, and do what we want/need whenever it is deemed neccessary. What people don't know, they don't know. We don't register guns in VA. Your friends are your friends, and the gov't, AIN'T.

I have no idea what you're talking about and agree 200%!

TFred · Oct 18, 2012

roscoe13 said:
Is anyone actually silly enough to by from FFLs these days?:banana:

Roscoe

Unfortunately, those FTF stores just don't seem to have the same good selection...

TFred

Marco · Oct 18, 2012

roscoe13 said:
Is anyone actually silly enough to by from FFLs these days?:banana:

Roscoe

Yep, and you can tell who they are when they try to sell it on VAGT for MSRP.

there is no gun registration but mysteriously if you purchase through an ffl and down the road that firearm is used in a crime it can be traced back to you. now that won't happen in 30 minutes like it does on tv but it can happen.

I was going to say... and I have some oceanfront property in Nevada for sale too...

If you go through an FFL, you better believe you are the registered owner of that gun, no matter what the laws might say.

TFred

And what do you think your CHP is??????
If you want the privilege to carry concealed I think you'll always be on the list.

Already own property in NV, got a nice view of the Mtns, I'm counting on it being oceanfront one day.

The trace system ......hahahahaha

peter nap · Oct 18, 2012

Marco said:
And what do you think your CHP is??????
If you want the privilege to carry concealed I think you'll always be on the list.

Marco, as you well know I've been singing that song for years. The Choir does listen but the congregation doesn't.

Gun registration is political suicide in Virginia but when "Shall Issue" passed, which was and is a good thing, the anti's didn't take long recognizing it as a great way to register "Gun Owners".

Using permits to get legislation passed is the lazy lobby way to do things and the more P4P that passes and the more short sighted people that jump on them as baby steps, the closer we get to a permit state.

TFred · Oct 18, 2012

Marco said:
And what do you think your CHP is??????

Two different things, of course.

A gun registration program traces any particular gun that might end up in police possession back to you. A CHP just means that it is probable that you own at least one handgun.

TFred

peter nap · Oct 18, 2012

TFred said:
Two different things, of course.

A gun registration program traces any particular gun that might end up in police possession back to you. A CHP just means that it is probable that you own at least one handgun.

TFred

For now TFred.

At one time most venues required CHP (Actually CWP then) holders to at least list the Make Model and Serial Number of your carry gun. Some, like Richmond, required you to list EVERY GUN YOU OWNED.

That's not the case right now but all it takes is a bad year in the General Assembly.

Red Dawg · Oct 19, 2012

Sorry if last post was not very understandable.
Private sales are PRIVATE. What the government does or doesn't know is between friends...

Marco · Oct 19, 2012

TFred said:
Two different things, of course.

A gun registration program traces any particular gun that might end up in police possession back to you. A CHP just means that it is probable that you own at least one handgun.

TFred

You are right...
Officer runs your name because of a bogus compliant from a store employee and when he shows up at your door with a tactical team because he already knows you own at least one gun..
or
Your employeer is anti personal defense so he contacts the counties his employees live in and gets the CHP list.. and starts firing folks as he see's fit for any offense.

As to the trace systems.. I'm very well versed.
The chain is easily broken....

IIRC, some CHP's still require make, model, caliber etc for each gun you wish to carry... so in some case yeah it's gun and owner registration... (Not VA)

Here on this forum we don't advocate the breaking of laws.
Here on this forum we also don't like the government telling us what to do with our property.
Here on this forum, we like people to mind their own business.
However in my world, we buy, sell, trade, borrow, and do what we want/need whenever it is deemed neccessary. What people don't know, they don't know. We don't register guns in VA. Your friends are your friends, and the gov't, AIN'T.I

I have no idea what you're talking about and agree 200%!

1+

EDIT:

Using permits to get legislation passed is the lazy lobby way to do things and the more P4P that passes and the more short sighted people that jump on them as baby steps, the closer we get to a permit state

I'll be borrowing this.

VA Big E · Oct 20, 2012

skidmark said:
I said I might have missed it. Looks like I did. I'm not allowed caffiene or sugar - that's my excuse.

Even if someone has been in Virginia for 366 consecutive days they may not be a "resident" if they have no intention of making Virginia their permanent home. http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf - page 178 specifically.

The OP has stated that the potential seller is sojourning in Virginia for emplouyment purposes but identifies themself as a resident of Georgia. One of the tests that might be applied in determining residency is where one pays taxes - it's not an absolute but it helps. If the potential seller files Virginia non-resident income tax forms and whatever Georgia requires for state taxes it would be hard to then claim Virginia residency for te purpose of a face-to-face sale of a handgun.

Virginia DMV requires folks who move to Virginia as residents to change any vehicle with out-of-state registration to be registered in Virginia - can't remember if the time limit is 60 or 90 days. Remember we had that discussion with Tanner's plates? He moved here to make his home here. So far we are being told the potential seller is merely sojourning here for employment.

Yes, I am being picky - possibly to the point of being pedantic. The OP has put themself in jeopardy by the words they used in their post. If the OP had just left it at the handgun was purchased in Goergia when the potential seller lived in Georgia, but he now lives in Virginia, we might not need to tiptoe so carefully. But the OP did not.

You gotta call them as you read them. Can't change the words to make it more convenient.

But, as the OP has decided, they are going to go through a FFL just to make sure. I do hope they will explain to the FFL that the potential (now becoming the actual) seller is considered a resident of Georgia as the reason for doing the transfer - it would be nice to give them that head's up to eliminate any possible confusion when the seller enters a Virginia address for the transfer to the FFL. It would be everybody's luck to get an FFL who would try to help them avoid what they might think was unnecessary paperwork.

stay safe.[/

I never stated that I was the buyer of this gun. My friend approached me about selling the gun, and how to do it legally here in va, because he is not sure of the some of the laws in VA. since i was also unsure, because I never sold a gun before, I posted the question. Also, after reading these posts, I stated the safest option would be to use an FFL. I was referring to my friend's options.

To clear any perception about me, I offer the following: I am not purchasing his gun! I was only looking for information to help my friend out, and also learn a thing or two about this topic.
Not that it matters but, the only weapons i have ever purchased have been new ones at the SGK show in Hampton, and one from Dicks Sporting Goods.

Mike · Oct 20, 2012

VA Big E said:
skidmark said:

I said I might have missed it. Looks like I did. I'm not allowed caffiene or sugar - that's my excuse.

Even if someone has been in Virginia for 366 consecutive days they may not be a "resident" if they have no intention of making Virginia their permanent home. http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf - page 178 specifically.

The word "permament" is not in the answer to FAQ B11 on page 178 - the ATF's position is merely that a resident of a state is at least an actual resident - one who is and intends to continue making A home in that state (caitalization added), but not necessarily a domiciliary of that state.

The answer to B11 is "The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained."

So many residents in Virginia for example are not domiciliaries of Virginia, and will not normally have a Va. driver's license or other Commonwealth ID indicating a Virginia address. Yet, at least as far as federal law is concerned, they may buy firearms from dealers in Virginia, and may buy firearms from private sellers in Virginia.

Click to expand...

VA private gun sale question

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Accomplished Advocate

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Regular Member

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Site Co-Founder