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OT Is this legal?

WARCHILD

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This interests me. I wonder if the topic of searches can be added to such a written request, like in the event of a parents' vehicle in which a student parks on school property. There has been some discussion in the past about schools and police having policies enabling them to seize keys to search any vehicle driven by a student on school property.

I dealt with this once also at New Lothrop high school. (hunting season..shotgun in trunk..going hunting after school).

If they are a student and parked in any school controlled lot...NO.
By accepting a "parking permit" they are giving implied consent to search. Even if it is the parent's vehicle.
Don't want any search; park on the street in a public area.

This was ten years ago and the system was not as strict then. The boy received a warning and that was it.
 

DCR

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The real answer is "It depends..."

There are many more factors that need to be considered than what has been discussed.

As others have mentioned, the general rule is that officers can question a child, or any other person, about anything, anytime, anywhere. Whether any statements can be used against the child or person questioned, or must be suppressed, is where the discussion thread has gone so far. The answer is that it depends whether the child was the subject of the investigation, whether it was a child welfare investigation, whether the questioning was coercive, and all the circumstances discussed in this thread factor into determining whether any answers will be admissible.

Generally, if the child is the subject of a criminal investigation, the parent can demand to be present, and courts scrutinize the circumstances surrounding the questioning to determine admissibility of any statements the child made.

if the child is not the subject of the investigation, the person who IS the subject of questioning does not have legal standing to seek suppression, because his rights have not been compromised - it was the child who was questioned, not the subject of the investigation.

It really gets complicated when the police are conducting a child welfare investigation - child abuse, child sexual abuse and the like. Usually in such investigations, it is a parent who is the subject of the investigation, and most states hold that the child's welfare trumps any demand by a parent, particularly the one who may be abusing the child, who has insisted to school officials that they be contacted or be given the opportunity to be present during any such questioning. Allowing the abuser to be present to intimidate the child victim during questioning would further victimize the child, obstruct the investigation and lead to continued abuse. No state, to my knowledge, has ever held that a school official or school district must honor any parent's demand to be notified or present during any child welfare investigation, or allowed a lawsuit filed by a parent whose child was questioned against the parent's wishes in a child welfare investigation.

Different story, though, if the child is questioned about anybody or anything, where the child is not the subject of the investigation. For example, consider the case where the police interview kids about who is dealing drugs in the neighborhood, or who might be behind a string of burglaries or vandalism. In that case, I submit that schools have an obligation to contact the child's parent-regardless whether the parent has given school authorities notice they wish to be present during any questioning of their child - and not permit any questioning unless and until the parent is present or gives permission for the questioning.

Just so everyone knows, schools are the primary places where police and social workers make contact with children to interview them in child abuse or neglect cases. Parents can demand to be notified or present during questioning, and in most cases the demand will be honored, unless it is a child abuse or neglect case and the child is being viewed as a potential victim of abuse or neglect. In that case, logic and public policy dictate that the parent, who is the real object of the investigation, is not entitled to be present.
 
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budlight

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Different story, though, if the child is questioned about anybody or anything, where the child is not the subject of the investigation. For example, consider the case where the police interview kids about who is dealing drugs in the neighborhood, or who might be behind a string of burglaries or vandalism. In that case, I submit that schools have an obligation to contact the child's parent-regardless whether the parent has given school authorities notice they wish to be present during any questioning of their child - and not permit any questioning unless and until the parent is present or gives permission for the questioning.

I really don't see how the school would have an "obligation" to notify the parents when law enforcement shows up and questions a child. At that point the decision to question the child was made by law enforcement. If anyone MIGHT have an obligation I think it would fall on the agency doing the questioning. However, there usually is no official obligation to do so, and law enforcement tends to let the courts sort these matters out.
 

SFCRetired

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I really don't see how the school would have an "obligation" to notify the parents when law enforcement shows up and questions a child. At that point the decision to question the child was made by law enforcement. If anyone MIGHT have an obligation I think it would fall on the agency doing the questioning. However, there usually is no official obligation to do so, and law enforcement tends to let the courts sort these matters out.

IANAL nor do I play one on television, but, during the time a child is at school, they are under the care and supervision of that school and its agents. That said, it should be that they have an obligation to notify a parent before allowing any questioning by an outside (non-school) agency with the exception of child welfare cases.

I will also tell you that these child welfare investigations can get ridiculous. A police agency in my state received an anonymous call from out of state claiming that my daughter had called them and told them I was abusing her. At the time of the alleged call from my daughter, she was sound asleep and there were no long-distance calls on my telephone bill. Still, I had to submit to questioning, and allow her to be questioned, by a person whose village should have been out looking for them. It's been almost thirty years since that happened and I still get angry thinking about it. If I could have proven who made that anonymous call, they would have been the subject of a criminal investigation for making a false report and a civil lawsuit for whatever I could make stick.
 

budlight

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IANAL nor do I play one on television, but, during the time a child is at school, they are under the care and supervision of that school and its agents. That said, it should be that they have an obligation to notify a parent before allowing any questioning by an outside (non-school) agency with the exception of child welfare cases.

I will also tell you that these child welfare investigations can get ridiculous. A police agency in my state received an anonymous call from out of state claiming that my daughter had called them and told them I was abusing her. At the time of the alleged call from my daughter, she was sound asleep and there were no long-distance calls on my telephone bill. Still, I had to submit to questioning, and allow her to be questioned, by a person whose village should have been out looking for them. It's been almost thirty years since that happened and I still get angry thinking about it. If I could have proven who made that anonymous call, they would have been the subject of a criminal investigation for making a false report and a civil lawsuit for whatever I could make stick.

My point is that law enforcement is in a position of authority; they are not some Joe Blow off the street. If they are the ones doing the questioning it is all on them. On the other hand, if the local cable company’s security shows up and wants to question the child to see if anyone in the household is stealing cable TV, then that is a totally different story.
 

DCR

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You are correct

That law enforcement as an authority figure is entitled to a great deal of deference from the school officials, and they are usually quite cooperative because they depend on law enforcement so often for matters that happen at school.

There are a number of cases throughout the country that describe the the school's relationship with students as being "in loco parentis," or "in the place of the parent." In a nutshell, that means the school has some level of responsibility for the student's well-being and supervision while there. This presumptive relationship is the basis of a whole bunch of case law, from civil liability of the school for acts or injuries of students to Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendment issues in criminal cases.

The school's authority and responsibilities with regard to students in non-child-abuse investigations by police almost came to a head in my state about 10 years ago in a couple of school districts. Principals wanted to be present during any police interviews at school, or call parents so they could consent or be present for interviews. Police of course didn't want that, and threatened to arrest the principals for obstruction. I don't know recall exactly how they worked it out, but I know many parents started leaving written notices with the schools to contact them immediately.

Thankfully, school officials and police usually work well together, and this doesn't come up all that often here.
 

davidmcbeth

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I taught my boy in school to answer any question asked with the answer "BANANAS". When he gets to be an adult, then "ORANGES!" (aren't ya glad I didn't say bananas?")
 
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