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Thread: Physicians Want To Be Lawmakers And gun Safety Instructors

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    Physicians Want To Be Lawmakers And gun Safety Instructors

    I am really getting sick of doctors flexing their muscles and intruding into our homes regarding how and what we should do to keep guns away from preying eyes of our kids. Then to top it off, they want more laws as to how we should store our firearms athome!!!!! A few years back when mom came to stay at my home after her knee surgery, we asked for inhome nursing to help her out, not to mention that my wife is a Mayo Clinic trained nurse herself. One question that came up was: Do you have firearms athome. I said(being somewhat deaf) yes we have fire alarms. My wife quickely said, " because of the constitution, we don't have to answer that question" Guns have been part of America since its founding. What was different then? Were kids dying back then like they are today by playing around with a loaded gun at home?Now when I go to clinics they have the gall to ask: Do you smoke, Do you drink? as if they are criminal acts? Aren't we supposed to be secure in our papers and home from preying eyes of professionals? I am getting sick of it because all they have to do is to pick up a phone and call authorities and just because they have a degree behind their name, we are pronounced guilty. I tell you I AM SICK OF IT!

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pedi...-without-guns/

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    Liked this comment:


    How many kids have died under Pediatric care? More than guns I’m sure… maybe these “Pediatricians” should focus on patients instead!

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1520569/

    this website has a report and say childhood death by firearm is sixth on the list of non medical related reason
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider
    Now when I go to clinics they have the gall to ask: Do you smoke, Do you drink? as if they are criminal acts?
    Aren't we supposed to be secure in our papers and home from prying eyes of professionals?
    Going in reverse order...
    The 4A does not apply to private citizens. If you're a veteran @ a VA clinic, or using some other gov't-sector health service, I agree that they're not allowed to search you (your belongings, your car, your home) unless they have a warrant. But asking you questions is not performing a search, and if it's coming from a non-gov't-employee there's even less reason to bring up the 4A.

    The reason they ask about drug use (including alcohol & tobacco) is for health information. If you use drugs you're at more risk of certain problems (depending on which drug & how much you use). They'll also probably try to convince you to stop smoking, & to limit alcohol intake to no more than 1 drink a day for women, 2 for men. It's called patient education & it's a big part of what nurses do.

    I am getting sick of it because all they have to do is to pick up a phone and call authorities and just because they have a degree behind their name, we are pronounced guilty.
    I don't follow what you mean. What exactly are the healthcare providers reporting about?
    There are things which laws require to be reported - certain diseases, child abuse, gunshot wounds - but the vast majority of health information is strongly protected.

    If a healthcare provider is asking a series of safety-related questions, or just giving bits of advice (keep the baby in a car seat, wear your seatbelt/helmet/life jacket, change the batteries in your smoke detector, store guns where people who shouldn't have access don't have access, store cleaning chemicals out of reach of children), I have no problem with it.

    If they focus in on firearms & react badly, try to convince me they're Evil Incarnate, then I'll get annoyed.
    "What is your training that makes you qualified to give advice about firearms?"
    If it's a nurse, & her training is anything like what I'm going through, I can tell you she knows next to nothing other than "they should be stored safely & if there are kids in the house you shouldn't have guns". Seriously, that's about the extent of what was discussed in our lecture on "safety" last week, all of about 2 minutes. And our textbooks are very anti-gun. All other hazards that could befall children, all of them, part of the suggested solution was education. Not for guns.

    When the topic of firearm ownership came up when I moved to my current doctor (new patient crapola), I smiled, looked her in the eye, & said "Yes, I have several. I'm an NRA certified pistol instructor. Here's my card. Were you looking for training, or did you just have some general safety questions that I can answer?"
    She dropped the line of questioning.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 10-20-2012 at 11:01 AM.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1520569/
    this website has a report and says childhood death by firearm is sixth on the list of non medical related reason
    Did you read the article? It's from July of 1950.

    But running with the old data, look at table 7 on page 3, titled "United States child accident toll" (age <15 years).
    Of 14,000 total...
    3,500 were motor vehicle
    2,700 "burns, scalds, & explosions"
    2,300 drownings
    1,400 mechanical suffocation
    900 falls
    600 firearms
    600 poisons
    300 railroad accidents

    So a child was nearly 4x more likely to die from something related to a motor vehicle than from firearms or poison.
    3.5x more likely to die from burning, scalding, or an explosion.
    2.3x more likely to die from suffocation.
    1.5x more likely to die from a fall.
    And equally likely to die from poisoning.

    When did seatbelts become standard on cars, & when was their use mandated? How about car seats for kids?
    How about child-safe medication bottle caps?
    Where are the protests & mega-millions funded groups against house fires, hot water heaters, etc.?
    Etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Going in reverse order...
    The 4A does not apply to private citizens. If you're a veteran @ a VA clinic, or using some other gov't-sector health service, I agree that they're not allowed to search you (your belongings, your car, your home) unless they have a warrant. But asking you questions is not performing a search, and if it's coming from a non-gov't-employee there's even less reason to bring up the 4A.

    The reason they ask about drug use (including alcohol & tobacco) is for health information. If you use drugs you're at more risk of certain problems (depending on which drug & how much you use). They'll also probably try to convince you to stop smoking, & to limit alcohol intake to no more than 1 drink a day for women, 2 for men. It's called patient education & it's a big part of what nurses do.


    I don't follow what you mean. What exactly are the healthcare providers reporting about?
    There are things which laws require to be reported - certain diseases, child abuse, gunshot wounds - but the vast majority of health information is strongly protected.

    If a healthcare provider is asking a series of safety-related questions, or just giving bits of advice (keep the baby in a car seat, wear your seatbelt/helmet/life jacket, change the batteries in your smoke detector, store guns where people who shouldn't have access don't have access, store cleaning chemicals out of reach of children), I have no problem with it.

    If they focus in on firearms & react badly, try to convince me they're Evil Incarnate, then I'll get annoyed.
    "What is your training that makes you qualified to give advice about firearms?"
    If it's a nurse, & her training is anything like what I'm going through, I can tell you she knows next to nothing other than "they should be stored safely & if there are kids in the house you shouldn't have guns". Seriously, that's about the extent of what was discussed in our lecture on "safety" last week, all of about 2 minutes. And our textbooks are very anti-gun. All other hazards that could befall children, all off them, part of the suggested solution was education. Not for guns.

    When the topic of firearm ownership came up when I moved to my current doctor (new patient crapola), I smiled, looked her in the eye, & said "Yes, I have several. I'm an NRA certified pistol instructor. Here's my card. Were you looking for training, or did you just have some general safety questions that I can answer?"
    She dropped the line of questioning.
    All I am saying is what will they want to do next? No doctor or any other professional ( not govt) has a right to prey into my family life. Is the dentist going to say If I find out that your teenager won't brush his teeth twice a day I am going to get the human services to come and check you up to make sure your teenager is brushing their teeth? Or a home without a crossbow is a safe home. They want to dictate our life, I think. It is a slippery slope into Orwellianism.

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    well here is some more updated info from 2007 and discharge of a firearm is in the 100 spot
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_08.pdf
    Last edited by oliverclotheshoff; 10-19-2012 at 04:23 PM.
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    I just want to say that I technically agree with the idea that medical services are private, and voluntary so you can't really say they are violating your rights.
    However. There has been significant "co-mingling" between the health care industry and the government that I can see someone being intimidated to refuse answering any question asked.

    It's funny I had the extremely unfortunate fate of being treated in the ER in MD last week and I was asked all the intrusive questions including a new one for me: what is my church affiliation.
    I did not ask why they wanted to know that, (I was in a bit of pain at the time) but looking back on it I can't think of a reason still.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I just want to say that I technically agree with the idea that medical services are private, and voluntary so you can't really say they are violating your rights.
    However. There has been significant "co-mingling" between the health care industry and the government that I can see someone being intimidated to refuse answering any question asked.

    It's funny I had the extremely unfortunate fate of being treated in the ER in MD last week and I was asked all the intrusive questions including a new one for me: what is my church affiliation.
    I did not ask why they wanted to know that, (I was in a bit of pain at the time) but looking back on it I can't think of a reason still.
    You stole my thunder. That is what I meant!

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    SNIP It's funny I had the extremely unfortunate fate of being treated in the ER in MD last week and I was asked all the intrusive questions including a new one for me: what is my church affiliation.
    I did not ask why they wanted to know that, (I was in a bit of pain at the time) but looking back on it I can't think of a reason still.

    Maybe they're just looking to see which volunteer minister they might call if the need suddenly developed. I understand that for some Catholics, Last Rites can be rather important.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Doctors and lawyers are the two professions that spend the most time in government-mandated indoctrination courses.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    I guess the proper response is to start asking the doctor or nurse questions about their sex life or some other off-topic issue distantly related to health care.

    Ho, ho, ho. No! Start investigating their mental hygiene! Ask them mental health questions.

    What is your favorite method for controlling others?

    Do you feel others like you?

    Do you like yourself?

    How often do you have these fantasies about guns in other people's homes?

    Are you just compensating?

    Last edited by Citizen; 10-19-2012 at 06:51 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Re: Physicians Want To Be Lawmakers And gun Safety Instructors

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Maybe they're just looking to see which volunteer minister they might call if the need suddenly developed. I understand that for some Catholics, Last Rites can be rather important.
    This is the correct answer.

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    A year or so ago when I was asked to talk to 2nd year medical students at the UW I compared the number of deaths caused by firearms versus the many times greater number caused by medical mistakes. I told them I was afraid to be in the room because they were "assassins in training." Fortunately they had a sense of humor about it, but I think I had made my point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    A year or so ago when I was asked to talk to 2nd year medical students at the UW I compared the number of deaths caused by firearms versus the many times greater number caused by medical mistakes. I told them I was afraid to be in the room because they were "assassins in training." Fortunately they had a sense of humor about it, but I think I had made my point.
    Good point.

    Another angle on this is the medical profession confusing causation with correlation. I don't recall the statistic, so this next is made up. They say your chances of being shot go up by 45% if there is a gun in the home. Hogwash. The presence or absence of the gun doesn't determine whether you get shot. Being suicidal or having an angry spouse is what makes your chance of getting shot go up. Or, not following safe handling rules.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Plus, I forgot to call them this year and tell them that I own guns and didn't have any accidents. So it's my fault their statistics are off. Sorry, guys.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns
    I was asked all the intrusive questions including a new one for me: what is my church affiliation.
    As others have said, it's one of those "just in case" type things, along with next of kin (or emergency contact).

    Something called holstic patient care - don't just focus on the broken arm & the mechanics of making it not broken again, but think about how that person will care for the kids & if she'll be able to drive or work. Explain how to bathe with a cast.

    Some people find comfort in talking about religious matters, & being hospitalized is generally stressful, so the person might appreciate a visit from a chaplain, but you don't know unless you ask.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    well here is some more updated info from 2007 and discharge of a firearm is in the 100 spot
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_08.pdf
    I don't see their rankings going beyond the top 10, except when comparing the top 10 for whites against the same causes in other colors.
    What page are you finding that on?
    (Not that I should be speding time on this when I have homework to read...)

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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    I am thinking I care more about whether my doctor gets enough sleep, keeps up with advances in his field and does he do recreational drugs or drink alcohol to excess. If he answers those satisfactorily and he proves to be safety minded he can come to my house and shoot guns with me on my range.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I don't see their rankings going beyond the top 10, except when comparing the top 10 for whites against the same causes in other colors.
    What page are you finding that on?
    (Not that I should be speding time on this when I have homework to read...)
    page 4 table A
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