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Thread: Pulled over by PCSO.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Strike's Avatar
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    Pulled over by PCSO.

    I was pulled over by a Pierce County Sheriff's Officer today on my way home from Starbucks in Spanaway, WA.

    As I was pulling out onto Pacific Ave he pulled up behind me and lit me up.

    As he approached my vehicle, I turned off the engine and placed my hands at 10 and 2. As he got to the window he asked if I knew why he had stopped me. I did not and replied so. He informed me that I had illegally used the turning lane to enter traffic and requested my license, insurance and registration.

    Before reaching for my paperwork, I informed I was carrying. He asked where and I motioned towards my G23 on my hip at 11 o'clock. I informed him that it was loaded and he replied "as it should be." He reached through the window and disarmed me. He place my firearm inside his jacket.

    At this point I handed him my license and CPL.

    He told me that I had used the lane improperly and that we would use this as a "learning experience."

    He placed my firearm on the hood of my vehicle and said I could retrieve it once he pulled away.

    Overall, I feel it was a good experience and my CPL may have gotten me out of a ticket.



    Sent from my iPhone.

  2. #2
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike View Post
    I was pulled over by a Pierce County Sheriff's Officer today on my way home from Starbucks in Spanaway, WA.

    As I was pulling out onto Pacific Ave he pulled up behind me and lit me up.

    As he approached my vehicle, I turned off the engine and placed my hands at 10 and 2. As he got to the window he asked if I knew why he had stopped me. I did not and replied so. He informed me that I had illegally used the turning lane to enter traffic and requested my license, insurance and registration.

    Before reaching for my paperwork, I informed I was carrying. He asked where and I motioned towards my G23 on my hip at 11 o'clock. I informed him that it was loaded and he replied "as it should be." He reached through the window and disarmed me. He place my firearm inside his jacket.

    At this point I handed him my license and CPL.

    He told me that I had used the lane improperly and that we would use this as a "learning experience."

    He placed my firearm on the hood of my vehicle and said I could retrieve it once he pulled away.

    Overall, I feel it was a good experience and my CPL may have gotten me out of a ticket.



    Sent from my iPhone.
    Question !: Why did you tell him you were armed?

    Question 2: Why did you allow him to disarm you?

  3. #3
    Regular Member Strike's Avatar
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    Pulled over by PCSO.

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Question !: Why did you tell him you were armed?

    Question 2: Why did you allow him to disarm you?
    1. It is my personal belief that it is generally a good idea to inform police of you are carrying. I was OCing and the last thing I wanted was for him to notice my firearm and draw his weapon.

    2. I allowed him to disarm because I felt it would make him feel safer. I'm all for that.


    Sent from my iPhone.

  4. #4
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Pulled over by PCSO.

    The reason you did not get a ticket had nothing to do with your CPL.

    46.61.290 Required position and method of turning at intersections.
    The driver of a vehicle intending to turn shall do so as follows:

    (1) Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

    (2) Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered.

    (3) Two-way left turn lanes.

    (a) The department of transportation and local authorities in their respective jurisdictions may designate a two-way left turn lane on a roadway. A two-way left turn lane is near the center of the roadway set aside for use by vehicles making left turns in either direction from or INTO the roadway.

    See my all caps in the last paragraph. The reason you didn't get a ticket is because you didn't break the law and the officer was an idiot for pulling you over in the first place.

    ETA. The cop was phishing and that was only the excuse he told you for pulling you over because he figured you wouldn't know he was full of it.
    Last edited by tombrewster421; 10-19-2012 at 07:30 PM.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  5. #5
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Certainly your choice, but it is not required...

    I am glad that he didn't accidently shoot the boys off as he was inside the window reaching across your body, fumbling at a retention holster and gun that he may or may not have been familiar with.....

    He set it on your hood? Everytime I do that, the coffee cup invariably rolls off with the lid going off and accidentally discharging its contents...

    My choice is to keep my mouth shut and not look for problems....and since it is specifically not called for as it is in Michigan or Ohio, you avoid things like this:

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-...-traffic-stop/
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  6. #6
    Regular Member Strike's Avatar
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    Pulled over by PCSO.

    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    The reason you did not get a ticket had nothing to do with your CPL.

    46.61.290 Required position and method of turning at intersections.
    The driver of a vehicle intending to turn shall do so as follows:

    (1) Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

    (2) Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered.

    (3) Two-way left turn lanes.

    (a) The department of transportation and local authorities in their respective jurisdictions may designate a two-way left turn lane on a roadway. A two-way left turn lane is near the center of the roadway set aside for use by vehicles making left turns in either direction from or INTO the roadway.

    See my all caps in the last paragraph. The reason you didn't get a ticket is because you didn't break the law and the officer was an idiot for pulling you over in the first place.
    +1

    Thanks for that info.


    Sent from my iPhone.

  7. #7
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    Forgive me if I sound testy and frustrated.


    But, I've seen too many of these posts where citizens are subjected to fishing expeditions, had their rights or dignity or both crapped on, and then think things went well.


    If the cop really only wanted a learning experience he could have just told you so without the entrapment question about knowing why he stopped you. All it takes is for the cop to walk up to the car and say, "Ma'am, we'd appreciate it if you didn't use the turn lane for accelerating."

    This was a pretext stop.

    I doubt your CPL got you out of a ticket. I suspect he wouldn't have written a ticket anyway unless something else turned up or you developed an attitude and showed it.

    If the cop didn't run your driver license for warrants, revocation, etc., if the stop was literally as short as you write, then I might agree the cop let you go early because of the CPL.

    But, your CPL didn't prevent the fishing expedition that was the stop itself.

    I'd be very annoyed; I certainly wouldn't say it went well. Not to mention the indignity of having your weapon seized off your person. And, told you could retrieve it after he leaves.


    ETA: I just saw TomBrewster's posting of the statute. Now I would be really, really annoyed, and would be writing a formal complaint.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-19-2012 at 07:29 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    The same, but different

    the same.........I was headed to Lynden to see the antique show with my Sweet Baboo as pilot. She scooted thru a green traffic light and went into a "known speed trap". She was ranting about the man using the POTUS job as she went into the turn at about 40 mph(limit 35). We both saw the motorcycle LEO and for some estrogenic reason that I will never understand, she accelerated into the turn. Lights on, point to the side of the road. He walked up and said" you were doing 43 and then sped up to 51". I laughed, he took the lic & reg, did up the ticket, we laughed again, we all went our separate ways.

    different........ Lori was concealed (S&W bodyguard)....I was open carrying. We did not mention it, nor did he.

    I still do not understand the part about accelerating into the cop.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 10-19-2012 at 07:54 PM. Reason: spelig aygin
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  9. #9
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    Question 2: Why did you allow him to disarm you?


    How would you have him prevent it?

  10. #10
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    the same.........I was headed to Lynden to see the antique show with my Sweet Baboo as pilot. She scooted thru a green traffic light and went into a "known speed trap". She was ranting about the man using the POTUS job as she went into the turn at about 40 mph(limit 35). We both saw the motorcycle LEO and for some estrogenic reason that I will never understand, she accelerated into the turn. Lights on, point to the side of the road. He walked up and said" you were doing 43 and then sped up to 51". I laughed, he took the lic & reg, did up the ticket, we laughed again, we all went our separate ways.

    different........ Lori was concealed (S&W bodyguard)....I was open carrying. We did not mention it, nor did he.

    I still do not understand the part about accelerating into the cop.
    Could it be that she knew she was going to get a ticket and just made it worth getting one?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    How would you have him prevent it?[/COLOR]
    Not much the OP could have done after notifying the officer, but wholly preventable by not offering the information.

    Plus 1 for what Navy said also.

    No reason to unholster a perfectly happy firearm.

  12. #12
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    This started as a traffic stop and should be treated as a traffic stop. Once you inform that there is a firearm present it now turns into a man with a gun stop....

  13. #13
    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    This thread and others like it irk me.

    Don't talk to LEOs. Officer friendly is not your friend. They have no right to search, seize and disarm a law abiding citizen unless that citizen has willingly given up their rights.

    Someone needs to smack both the willing compliant subjects and the LEOs that insist on using buzz words like "officer safety" as a lame excuse to infringe upon citizens rights.


  14. #14
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    Don't open your window all the way !!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    How would you have him prevent it?[/COLOR]
    You are not required to open your window all the way. Only open you window far enough to allow the needed conversation and the passing of needed documents.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike View Post
    1. It is my personal belief that it is generally a good idea to inform police of you are carrying. I was OCing and the last thing I wanted was for him to notice my firearm and draw his weapon.

    2. I allowed him to disarm because I felt it would make him feel safer. I'm all for that.


    Sent from my iPhone.
    Oh dear. Please read my post about keeping your mouth shut.
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubex DE View Post
    Can you narrow that down a little so the rest of us don't have to hunt through the entire post?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Why is it always someone with in their first 50 posts. You only roll your window down far enough to pass your documents through, and you have the right to remain silent, but obviously dont have the ability to.

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

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  18. #18
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike View Post
    1. It is my personal belief that it is generally a good idea to inform police of you are carrying. I was OCing and the last thing I wanted was for him to notice my firearm and draw his weapon.

    2. I allowed him to disarm because I felt it would make him feel safer. I'm all for that.


    Sent from my iPhone.
    This is a public forum so i will leave the colorful anicdotes i would have called you had i seen it happen.

    He violated the law and your rights and you WILLINGLY HELPED HIM DO IT!

    Why? so you could think it made him feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    He may only disarm you during a lawful stop if you are currently armed AND DANGEROUS. otherwise he is in violation of the 4th and a lawful terry stop.

    Tell us what else you intend to do just to make other people "feel safer"? what other inalienable rights you intend to just hand over?

    In this country you do not have a right to feel safe or be happy

    “The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.”
    Benjamin Franklin

    We do however have other rights you seem to want to give up, perhaps old bens other thought might do you some good.

    “Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.”
    Benjamin Franklin
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    This is a public forum so i will leave the colorful anicdotes i would have called you had i seen it happen.

    He violated the law and your rights and you WILLINGLY HELPED HIM DO IT!

    Why? so you could think it made him feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    He may only disarm you during a lawful stop if you are currently armed AND DANGEROUS. otherwise he is in violation of the 4th and a lawful terry stop.

    Tell us what else you intend to do just to make other people "feel safer"? what other inalienable rights you intend to just hand over?

    In this country you do not have a right to feel safe or be happy

    “The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.”
    Benjamin Franklin

    We do however have other rights you seem to want to give up, perhaps old bens other thought might do you some good.

    “Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.”
    Benjamin Franklin
    Cite, please. Forum Rule #5.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    during a valid Terry stop, the United States Supreme Court forbids police to even conduct a light pat down or seize weapons unless the subsequent to RAS for the stop, the "an officer is justified in believing that the individual whose suspicious behavior he is investigating at close range is [both] armed and presently dangerous to the officer or to others." 392 U.S. at 24. Stated another way, only "[s]o long as the officer is [both] entitled to make a forcible stop, and has reason to believe that the suspect is armed **and dangerous** . . .may [he] conduct a weapons search limited in scope to this protective purpose." Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 146 (1972) (emphasis added).
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  21. #21
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike View Post
    1. It is my personal belief that it is generally a good idea to inform police of you are carrying. I was OCing and the last thing I wanted was for him to notice my firearm and draw his weapon.

    2. I allowed him to disarm because I felt it would make him feel safer. I'm all for that.


    Sent from my iPhone.
    It was totally expected that you would get thrashed for doing both #1 and #2 above.

    Consider the alternatives. The officer sees your firearm and you haven't advised him you're carrying. Next you're ordered out of the vehicle at gunpoint and then in handcuffs. In #2, what do you suppose the officer would have done if you refused to allow him to disarm you. Chances are you would be disarmed anyway, but now at gunpoint and again, handcuffs. If you really piss off the officer, the handcuffs are applied while face down on the pavement.

    It's easy for those who are not involved in a situation to "egg someone on" and tell them how "they would have done it".

    Sometimes it's a lot easier to just not be an @-hole, get the stop over with, and if you feel the officer was out of line, file a complaint. Nothing good is going to happen if you protest along the highway with the officer that stopped you.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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  22. #22
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Can you narrow that down a little so the rest of us don't have to hunt through the entire post?
    Given that I want you to read the entire post... no.

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Consider the alternatives. The officer sees your firearm and you haven't advised him you're carrying. Next you're ordered out of the vehicle at gunpoint and then in handcuffs. In #2, what do you suppose the officer would have done if you refused to allow him to disarm you. Chances are you would be disarmed anyway, but now at gunpoint and again, handcuffs. If you really piss off the officer, the handcuffs are applied while face down on the pavement.

    It's easy for those who are not involved in a situation to "egg someone on" and tell them how "they would have done it".

    Sometimes it's a lot easier to just not be an @-hole, get the stop over with, and if you feel the officer was out of line, file a complaint. Nothing good is going to happen if you protest along the highway with the officer that stopped you.
    In either of those cases, much more will be done to the officer (and the department) as a result of your complaint than if you volunteer up your rights and your safety and file a complaint about that instead.
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    It was totally expected that you would get thrashed for doing both #1 and #2 above.

    Consider the alternatives. The officer sees your firearm and you haven't advised him you're carrying. Next you're ordered out of the vehicle at gunpoint and then in handcuffs. In #2, what do you suppose the officer would have done if you refused to allow him to disarm you. Chances are you would be disarmed anyway, but now at gunpoint and again, handcuffs. If you really piss off the officer, the handcuffs are applied while face down on the pavement.

    It's easy for those who are not involved in a situation to "egg someone on" and tell them how "they would have done it".

    Sometimes it's a lot easier to just not be an @-hole, get the stop over with, and if you feel the officer was out of line, file a complaint. Nothing good is going to happen if you protest along the highway with the officer that stopped you.

    Oh I see we have to voluntarily give up our rights because if we don't we might be forced to give up our rights?

    You can let fear of what "might" happen dictate your actions, I'd rather take a stand for what is right.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    It was totally expected that you would get thrashed for doing both #1 and #2 above.

    Consider the alternatives. The officer sees your firearm and you haven't advised him you're carrying. Next you're ordered out of the vehicle at gunpoint and then in handcuffs.
    Well I suspect at this point we have a completely separate issue to deal with, considering that there's no duty to notify in this state.

  25. #25
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Sometimes it's a lot easier to just not be an @-hole, get the stop over with, and if you feel the officer was out of line, file a complaint. Nothing good is going to happen if you protest along the highway with the officer that stopped you.
    Not just sometimes. All the time. It is always easier to "pay the bully your lunch money" than fight it. And I don't have anything negative to say about someone in that position. Just keep your head down, and prostrate once in a while when commanded to and you'll be allowed to keep on..... It sucks but the truth of it is we are damn near a totalitarian state. I personally am too tired of that sh!t. But I can't blame someone if they don't wanna get their noggin knocked for little gain.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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