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Thread: Time to get rid of the BFPE ?

  1. #1
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    Time to get rid of the BFPE ?

    With 22 months being OKed for a wait time I think its time to start an effort to eliminate the BFPE all together.

    Anyone wish to explore this ?

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    Re: Time to get rid of the BFPE ?

    To get rid of BPFE, we'd have to get a shall issue permitting system. It's a long slow road, but CCDL is working on it.

    It's a pipe dream to hope for constitutional carry in this state.

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    Amen!

    Amen to that! If they just followed the law everything would be fine....

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    Quote Originally Posted by gluegun View Post
    To get rid of BPFE, we'd have to get a shall issue permitting system. .
    Not necessarily ... and one does not have to be successful with new legislation to have success.

    Just having the opportunity for people to speak of their experiences in committee testimony can be enough of a kick in the pants for change to occur rapidly.

    I would suggest that a person follow this procedure:
    1) apply with local PDs, like folks do now
    2) if denied, appeal to the same town (this appeal should be mandated to take no more than 30 days to complete)
    3) if denied, then a de novo hearing before a judge with sanctions being a possibility

    If towns want to play games, then they can can listen to a judge berate them and levy sanctions against them.

    This process would completely eliminate a 22 mo. waiting period for the board and stop the week-before-the-hearing granting of permits and dropping of cases that towns & DESPP like to play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Needforspeed1060 View Post
    Amen to that! If they just followed the law everything would be fine....
    How did they treat you and why did they deny?

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    suitability.... but the whole procedure and law that was not followed during the whole process was sickening.... I think the main thing was the Ten day prior requierment was not followed and I did not get default judgement even with a written motion.. there should not of been a hearing. thank god I put it in writing.

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    Regular Member dmjs's Avatar
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    How many

    Take a look first and see how many individuals have appealed just because they have not been issued their permit within 2 to 4 weeks as many backyard lawyers on here have suggested. Than also see how many of these whom have received their permits and have not canceled their hearing date. The wait time would be quite a bit shorter if the BFPE only handled the issue of a denied renewal and revocations and a different office handled the appeals of those whom have not been issued because of a time frame disagreement.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmjs View Post
    Take a look first and see how many individuals have appealed just because they have not been issued their permit within 2 to 4 weeks as many backyard lawyers on here have suggested. Than also see how many of these whom have received their permits and have not canceled their hearing date.
    You are making some pretty bold claims and accusations here. Got any proof?
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    Re: Time to get rid of the BFPE ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmjs View Post
    Take a look first and see how many individuals have appealed just because they have not been issued their permit within 2 to 4 weeks as many backyard lawyers on here have suggested. Than also see how many of these whom have received their permits and have not canceled their hearing date. The wait time would be quite a bit shorter if the BFPE only handled the issue of a denied renewal and revocations and a different office handled the appeals of those whom have not been issued because of a time frame disagreement.
    Backyard lawyers? Why would anyone wait the 8 weeks? If the department is not following the law specifically, you appeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmjs View Post
    Take a look first and see how many individuals have appealed just because they have not been issued their permit within 2 to 4 weeks as many backyard lawyers on here have suggested. Than also see how many of these whom have received their permits and have not canceled their hearing date. The wait time would be quite a bit shorter if the BFPE only handled the issue of a denied renewal and revocations and a different office handled the appeals of those whom have not been issued because of a time frame disagreement.
    This information may be included in the goldberg case filings in fed. ct/CT. I would think that once the cops give the guy his permit, they call the board and the board dismisses the case (I could be wrong).

    And I don't see how splitting up the denials could be appropriate...a denial via time is still an administrative denial. It would be nice if one could simply submit paperwork and thats that ... but its not the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Needforspeed1060 View Post
    suitability.... but the whole procedure and law that was not followed during the whole process was sickening.... I think the main thing was the Ten day prior requierment was not followed and I did not get default judgement even with a written motion.. there should not of been a hearing. thank god I put it in writing.
    The ten day requirement I assume was for the town to complete their questionnaire within 10 days prior to the hearing date?

    There is no question that this is stated in the statue. The question is if this is a mandatory or directory requirement. If mandatory, then the case should have been handed to you on a silver platter. If directory, not. Clearly the board said it was not mandatory.

    I'll assume that you objected to the town's questionnaire being introduced into evidence and that you also plead facts that it's tardiness prejudiced your case. And you did ask for a continuance and was denied. If any assumptions are wrong, please correct.

    The statue has the word "shall" in it .. normally a mandatory provision .. but not all the time; so courts look at these on a case by case basis; I have not seen a court rule one way or the other on this statue. But I can look at other mandatory v. directory provisions of other laws for comparision.

    Most jurisdictional statues are mandatory, like the need to file an appeal in so many days after the judgment of the lower court was final.
    Miss the cutoff date and your appeal will be dismissed.

    Others, like the need to file an answer to a complaint within 30 days are not set in stone. A plaintiff can file for a default but the defendant can correct the tardiness by filing an answer after 30 days.

    I have looked and examined many statues to their mandatory or directory nature so I have some experience. I would think that the 10 day provision is actually directory and not mandatory. But I would also think that if you asked for a continuance and was denied then the higher court would say that this prejudice you and would kick it back down for a new hearing. If you did not ask for a continuance then the prejudicial nature of the late filing would likely be seen as a moot point as you did request a continuance and did not object to the denial of your request for a continuance.

    The ten day time period is to allow time for a party to review and prepare for the hearing; if you got it late then there is relief available (a continuance) to correct the prejudicial nature of the late filing. That's how I see it.

    When an opposing party files a late filing I always object and then ask for a continuance.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-24-2012 at 02:21 PM.

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    I have contacted my state representative in respect to new legislation to address the excessive times for administrative bodies, including BFPE.

    I have suggested changes to state law that would include:

    Defining a 45 or 90 day time period to the phrase "reasonable dispatch" in Chapter 54 of CGS

    or

    Eliminating the boards in their entirety. There is a cost savings involved here for the state. Initial appeals would go to the town and appeals to the court in a de novo hearing would be next. And that the initial appeals should be ruled upon within 30 days.

    I'll post back with a reply from my legislature. The Goldberg opinion may actually push the legislature into action.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-26-2012 at 04:21 PM.

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    Time to get rid of the BFPE ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmjs View Post
    Take a look first and see how many individuals have appealed just because they have not been issued their permit within 2 to 4 weeks as many backyard lawyers on here have suggested. Than also see how many of these whom have received their permits and have not canceled their hearing date. The wait time would be quite a bit shorter if the BFPE only handled the issue of a denied renewal and revocations and a different office handled the appeals of those whom have not been issued because of a time frame disagreement.
    1) Tell us.....how many?

    2) the issue is not "a time frame disagreement". It is a willful and deliberate effort by local authorities to make the permitting process difficult for applicants. If they are not challenged legally for their contempt of THE LAW, whether they eventually issue the applicants their permits or not, their abuses will continue.

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    let me get this straight... you want to appeal.... to the town that denies you?

    Right now, the BFPE is righting many of the wrongs at the town level. I can't see how keeping it in the town can work. Especially if you live in one of the major permit problem towns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    let me get this straight... you want to appeal.... to the town that denies you?

    Right now, the BFPE is righting many of the wrongs at the town level. I can't see how keeping it in the town can work. Especially if you live in one of the major permit problem towns.

    Jonathan
    Yup, that's right. But they only have 30 days to complete the process ... afterwards, a de novo administrative review process can commence in superior court.

    When the towns have to start spending a zillion dollars in court fees/lawyer fees they will stop playing games. I have lived in other states with this process and the towns are less likely to play such games; they would only deny someone who they thought that they had a good case against to survive a court challenge. The lawyers (if you even see one for towns at the BFPE) could give 2-hoots about an administrative board's opinion of them; they do care about how a judge sees them. Be a big A-H all the time to litigants and the judge will put the hammer down at some point in time.

    Money talks, & you know what walks...


    I have alternately asked for a time period of 30-90 days to be considered "reasonable dispatch" under Chapter 54 definitions section which would apply to all admin hearings.

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